Nelson Semedo

Joan

Well-known member
The only reason he has been replaced is Roberto has been better. It is up to him from here to win his place back.

I agree. Roberto has been better lately and is an undisputed starter.
But some time ago we used to argue why Semedo was rotated that much despite him performing consistently. Still hope he makes it here because I believe he has potentional.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Have a feeling Valverde will put him out there against Real Madrid after benching him last two games :lol:
 

LeeRomeno

Active member
Most definitely you have never been a coach or a pro-player, otherwise you wouldn't belittle the importance of several mental factors, like uncertainty, fear, imbalance, frustration, etc.
These are most often more important than the strength of a muscle or even stamina.

Do you really think that the constant "prove yourself" yields and orders by the coach would lead to the required result?
It just gives the opposite result my austere friend...

A player constantly fighting for his place will be uneasy, stiff, frustrated, undecided, he wouldn't take risks, would be afraid of doing creative things, would be scared of dribbling, making creative passes, etc. If he is a defender, he would definitely do more faults, collect yellow cards, etc.
Just ask your sexologist friends, where it is leading to, if the permanent but stiff will to prove yourself becomes a must, when you wish to procreate...

No player can play well or outstandingly if these axes are hanging over his head at every given minute.

You also belittle the role, or mental state of Roberto, he is clearly not happy playing as a defender (specially at important games against strong or even better opponents), so you just provide the ages old prescription, and think that performances - only and always - depend on "waiting for his chances" or someone is "a strong individual to not be affected of being on bench".
Nobody likes to sit on the bench (except Arda Turan) but simultaneously no player deals well with the constant "prove yourself" biddings or arrangements.

Otherwise you also mention valid points, but you're seemingly not aware of the mental factor's importance...

BTW, Digne has NOT been on average better than Semedo, he is probably half as skilled as Semedo is, but you are also damn right in saying that none of us knows how he or someone else is behaving in dressing room, or training.

Umm yea, no I have not. Then again, where exactly did I say anything about constant "prove yourself"? I said that a) S.Roberto has been better in RB position and b) to be able to make it in the top level you need do what coach tells you and fight for your place in the team.
Valverde, unlike me, has been both pro-player and top level coach, so I am pretty sure he is not yelling " YOU NEED TO PROVE YOURSELF TO ME NELSON" before every game and then giving him the look afterwards. Also, I am pretty aware of mental factors importance, I just think also mentally, you need to be strong to be able to make it on top level unless you are some supertalent.
What i see currently is people finding excuses and ignoring the fact that team has looked more compact, more in tune and playing better with Roberto. Because I am 100% sure, Semedos bench time has not been just some random mental test/tease by coach, but rather for a very clear reason.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Bravo was performing better too with regular minutes compared to the ter Stegen playing one week and sitting on his ass the next three.

Perhaps Roberto deserves to start right now, but I don't think playing once and sitting the next two-three games, some against the more easier opponents is conducive to adaptability to the team and your team mates as well as keeping up a consistent level of performance.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Bravo was performing better too with regular minutes compared to the ter Stegen playing one week and sitting on his ass the next three.

Ter Stegen was class in CL and cup for most part.

Took him more time to get used to being first pick every week.
 

Potroh

New member
Every new player not a superstar comes and has to earn their place and he has had ample opportunity to show what he can do.

Well, yes a newbie has to convince everyone.
But it can be done (by the coach) in many different ways and what Lucho did with Umtiti for instance, was the right thing to do.
He simply started playing, gave outstanding performances and less outstanding ones, but in essence he never had to compete with Mascherano.
So amalgamating Umtiti into the team was a nice and flawless process.

The only thing one has to see, that this time it is different, Semedo gets two chances and then he is on the bench for two games. Not the best method.
If the coach thinks Roberto is better in that position, then let it be him, but constantly rotating them is not a good thing as far as Semedo's adaptation is concerned, as sooner or later he will lose his enthusiasm and will become stiff...
Semedo was not bought and brought here to be a bench player or as the substitution for Roberto, he was taken hoping to become a permanent solution.
Roberto as a RB is NOT a permanent or final solution, even if he occasionally plays really well.

I seriously doubt one could find a majority or just many folks here who think that Roberto as RB is THE long-time solution.
If Semedo is not the solution in the coach's eyes, that's fine, let them find someone else, but at the same time he needs to know that his "solution", borrowed from the worst time of Enrique, is nothing but a temporary one, that conceptually or tactically has a lot of vulnerabilities.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Well, yes a newbie has to convince everyone.
But it can be done (by the coach) in many different ways and what Lucho did with Umtiti for instance, was the right thing to do.
He simply started playing, gave outstanding performances and less outstanding ones, but in essence he never had to compete with Mascherano.
So amalgamating Umtiti into the team was a nice and flawless process.

The only thing one has to see, that this time it is different, Semedo gets two chances and then he is on the bench for two games. Not the best method.
If the coach thinks Roberto is better in that position, then let it be him, but constantly rotating them is not a good thing as far as Semedo's adaptation is concerned, as sooner or later he will lose his enthusiasm and will become stiff...
Semedo was not bought and brought here to be a bench player or as the substitution for Roberto, he was taken hoping to become a permanent solution.
Roberto as a RB is NOT a permanent or final solution, even if he occasionally plays really well.

I seriously doubt one could find a majority or just many folks here who think that Roberto as RB is THE long-time solution.
If Semedo is not the solution in the coach's eyes, that's fine, let them find someone else, but at the same time he needs to know that his "solution", borrowed from the worst time of Enrique, is nothing but a temporary one, that conceptually or tactically has a lot of vulnerabilities.

Umtiti was rotated a lot and the reason he in end got picked ahead of Masch so often was down to level of performance and Barca knowing Masch needs replaced.

If Semedo had shown a higher level he may well be the starter right now but even then has still had a lot of minutes. He has started something like two thirds of games.

What Semedo was bought for doesnt matter. If he comes he wins his place on merit by being the best RB and he hasnt been and really it has not even been close.

If Semedo is the long term solution he can be the regular RB when he plays like it.

It has nothing to do with Semedo not being the long term solution in Valverdes eyes it is about putting strongest team on park and at same time giving Semedo plenty opportunity to develop which he absolutely has been getting.
 

Potroh

New member
What Semedo was bought for doesnt matter. If he comes he wins his place on merit by being the best RB and he hasnt been and really it has not even been close.
If Semedo is the long term solution he can be the regular RB when he plays like it.

Sorry but it sounds as if you were watching these games from the perspective of a boxing or judo coach...
If your notion was true, and there were no long-term built-up strategies at all, neither Gomes nor Dennis (or Deloufeu, or Vidal, or Paco, or Digne) would have ever played more than two games...
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Sorry but it sounds as if you were watching these games from the perspective of a boxing or judo coach...
If your notion was true, and there were no long-term built-up strategies at all, neither Gomes nor Dennis (or Deloufeu, or Vidal, or Paco, or Digne) would have ever played more than two games...

No sorry what you are saying is nothing like what I am saying at all.

I am saying he is not first choice as he hasn't played well enough and Roberto has been better. He has and will get ample time to prove himself.

What players are bought for doesn't matter it is how they play on the park that matters.
 

Potroh

New member
I am saying he is not first choice as he hasn't played well enough and Roberto has been better. He has and will get ample time to prove himself.
What players are bought for doesn't matter it is how they play on the park that matters.

That's all right, if you feel that he played "bad" when he got the chance, but I don't think it was the case. "He could have played better" would perhaps be a better statement but even that doesn't cover the player's present situation.

Of course it really does matter if a player was brought in to solve a pending problem or vacancy, and that's the case with Semedo, but there are naturally other possibilities, like Alcacer's move, who most probably didn't seriously think he would be regular starter (if he is sane) and force one of the MSN out, when he arrived.

So there are players who come to be substitutes, get occasional chances and very good $$$ and the management look at them as such, whereas it was obvious that there was a huge problem if Alves left, so even before he did so, the management brought Vidal. Then they realized Vidal is not good enough for the task and made poor Roberto a "false" back. But everyone knew he is not a defender, so bought Semedo in to solve the actual problem.

If you truly and sincerely feel that Roberto IS the long-term solution, then I keep silent, but I guess only the very impaired may think like that. That's why it is important to sort of decide sooner or later the fate of Semedo, because he is a very good and talented one, whereas Roberto as RB will always remain a temporary solution, regardless if he plays well.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
That's all right, if you feel that he played "bad" when he got the chance, but I don't think it was the case. "He could have played better" would perhaps be a better statement but even that doesn't cover the player's present situation.

Of course it really does matter if a player was brought in to solve a pending problem or vacancy, and that's the case with Semedo, but there are naturally other possibilities, like Alcacer's move, who most probably didn't seriously think he would be regular starter (if he is sane) and force one of the MSN out, when he arrived.

So there are players who come to be substitutes, get occasional chances and very good $$$ and the management look at them as such, whereas it was obvious that there was a huge problem if Alves left, so even before he did so, the management brought Vidal. Then they realized Vidal is not good enough for the task and made poor Roberto a "false" back. But everyone knew he is not a defender, so bought Semedo in to solve the actual problem.

If you truly and sincerely feel that Roberto IS the long-term solution, then I keep silent, but I guess only the very impaired may think like that. That's why it is important to sort of decide sooner or later the fate of Semedo, because he is a very good and talented one, whereas Roberto as RB will always remain a temporary solution, regardless if he plays well.

Not really badly although was poor in some games. Roberto has just been better past few months.

It doesnt matter why a player was brought in and regardless of that he was given that starters role and needs to play well enough to maintain it.

There is almost no top manager that will continue to have a players as starter just because they were bought for that reason regardless of how they play. It doesnt matter why he came it matters if he can justify that reason.

Never said anything about long term solution other than the best RB should play and if Semedo proves to be the better RB and long term solution then he will get that spot.

If Semedo is as good as you say he will prove it and is getting a lot of chances to. For now Roberto has been better.
 

Potroh

New member
It doesnt matter why a player was brought in and regardless of that he was given that starters role and needs to play well enough to maintain it.
There is almost no top manager that will continue to have a players as starter just because they were bought for that reason regardless of how they play. It doesnt matter why he came it matters if he can justify that reason.
Never said anything about long term solution other than the best RB should play and if Semedo proves to be the better RB and long term solution then he will get that spot.
If Semedo is as good as you say he will prove it and is getting a lot of chances to. For now Roberto has been better.

Obviously I highly respect your opinion, even if I do not agree with it, so in defense of my own point of view, let me just quickly state a few generic things:

1. Coaches, who always want to play those players having been in good or best form, are actually doomed, because the coach's well thought out system will always suffer, if xyz player "must" play, because he has proven to be in good shape and form. A well playing team is always better than 1 or 2 individuals playing outstandingly.

2. That's why a wise coach breaks up his team only, if there is an urgent need to do so, injuries happened, or a specific player is needed for a specific task at the next match.

3. The coach, who is looking, searching for the replacement of a player who played badly 2-3-4 games in a row, is a careless and bad coach, because before all he needs to adjudicate if the player is a good one in bad form, or a mediocre one, being in very good form. The good coach will play the better player in bad form at important games, because he is aware of his qualities - and will occasionally play the mediocre one in good form, usually against easier opponents. (Hope you don't want me to come up with thousands of examples of this...)

4. So will Messi, Suarez, Ronaldo, Neymar, Cavani or anyone else for that matter play when they are in bad form? Yes, because the coach still trusts their known and proven qualities. Of course it is an entirely different matter if the player is tired and needs rest (either for physical or mental reasons).

5. The spectators, and the press often declare that such and such TEAM is in bad form, we all know that titles... But is it statistically or humanly possible that 15-16 players are in bad form in a single team, at the same time? No way, it simply cannot happen (unless they played too many games, traveled too much and stuff like that), but if they are NOT tired, just being in bad form, it ALWAYS means that the system, the tactics, the approach, the coach's access, his approximation or the approach-forcing system is bad, changed, or simply did not adapt to the present circumstances.
Thus, in a case like the team playing badly, the wise coach adheres to his core players, maybe makes minor changes, whereas a bad coach immediately starts to turn the entire team upside down, and starts trying out newer and newer players.

6. The other important factor is that when we call a particular team being in "bad form", it often happens that they aren't in worse form than previously, it is that they aren't LUCKY enough at games or games in a row. When a defender slips while trying to reach an opponent, when the ball goes out from the woodwork, instead of going in, when a referee is biassed, etc. these factors highly contribute to any result and it is simply the unknown factor, namely: luck. Because we all know that a good team simultaneously needs to be lucky as well... Luck is an integral part of the game, like it or not...

7. If circumstances allow, the wise coach has to build a team, according to the two major factors: -the available material of players, -and his own apprehension or his own balked desires. It may take 1-2-3 years to build that ideal team of his up, so results are rarely instant, it takes time and a tremendous amount of work.

8. So the wise coach - while constantly trying to give acceptable results to the present - ALWAYS tries to build the team for the future, and this is where it is questionable if he abides to players playing well, but at unfamiliar posts or with rapidly changing teammates in the formation. A "born" midfielder who is in very good form, might also play quite well as a defender, but trying to play him there, just because he plays well, is a RISK, a risk that clever coaches rarely or never take (unless the half of the team is in bed with injuries).

9. So from the coach's angle, he should see, imagine, predict, etc. how a player will play at a given post in 1-2 years from now, and therefore it is NOT the highest factor in his considerations, if another player accomplishes the task better - right now.
Therefore he has to cultivate, form, animate, assure and bolden the player in his long term plans, rather than just simply judging who plays more or less better in a period of a few weeks or months.

10. So if Valverde - just as an example to the generic notion here - believes that Roberto is the solution (the long term one) then he is doing it right. But in case he believes that Semedo can or will become the "new Alves" for this team (as many believed), then he is doing it wrong, because a 25 yrs old defender will not get better by fighting for his place in his new club, he will sooner or later definitely lose necessary mental strength and other factors, needed to play better, whereas Roberto could be a very useful member of the team elsewhere on the field...
As a result of the present status and tendencies regarding these two, you will get two frustrated players, instead of none...
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
None of your point are really relevant to what I am saying and most top coaches do rotate players in particular new signings to clubs.

You act as if Semedo never plays when he hast started something like two thirds of games.

Cant be bothered to reply to each point but disagree with pretty much all of it and it is not how top coaches work.

1 - Roberto is not playing every game and Semedo is getting time to prove himself. So the point you make there doesnt stand up.

2 - All top coaches rotate their sides and dont just wait for injuries etc.

As long as Semedo is the first pick right back when he proves to be better than Roberto all will be good. He was first choice and lost that as he should have.
 
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