Nelson Semedo

Potroh

New member
Can you name me one where they behave in way you claim?

For sure I could name hundreds of examples, but frankly I don't really want to further entertain you with my "ridiculous ideas".
Despite your 15361 post here, you will always remain with your "Fight!!!" ideas and seemingly nobody would ever be able to persuade you to take this profession in a slightly more sophisticated way.

So let me just quote my own first sentence in this debate: "Sorry but it sounds as if you were watching these games from the perspective of a boxing or judo coach...", just because it tells almost everything...
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
For sure I could name hundreds of examples, but frankly I don't really want to further entertain you with my "ridiculous ideas".
Despite your 15361 post here, you will always remain with your "Fight!!!" ideas and seemingly nobody would ever be able to persuade you to take this profession in a slightly more sophisticated way.

So let me just quote my own first sentence in this debate: "Sorry but it sounds as if you were watching these games from the perspective of a boxing or judo coach...", just because it tells almost everything...

Dont need hundreds. Just one will do.

Nope not a boxing or judo coach but how the top coaches react in such situations.

Your ideas go against what top coaches do. For good reason. Not logical in the slightest.

Suggesting the idea of competition is bad for a team as poor wall flowers might get stressed. Give me a break.
 
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jairzinho

Senior Member
Lots of different ideas and opinions.

Mines has and still is that Semedo will come good in the long run.

As of now, Sergi is the best bet given particular circumstances which work in his favor.

The same which seems to work for Rakitic. That's why he continues to play.

It sometimes isn't about individual quality but cohesion and understanding with the rest of the squad.

So we'll continue like this for now.

Everyone else will adjust and acclimatize as the season goes along.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves with Sergi being a quality RB, he's pretty much average at that position but good enough in the interim.

His understanding with the other players is essential to make the system work.

Semedo just needs to improve in that aspect and i think pretty soon, especially with Dembele coming back we'll see more positive things from him.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
I think it's pretty much 50-50 if he will play in El Classico.

If Valverde goes with 4-3-3 (switching to 4-4-2 when defending with Roberto dropping into RM), he probably will:

---------------Ter Stegen--------------
Semedo---Pique---Vermaelen---Alba
---------------Busquets----------------
--Rakitić/Paulinho---Iniesta----------
Roberto--------Messi----Suarez------

If Valverde plays 4-4-2 diamond with Paulinho at CAM (which worries me, since he has had his worst games this season in that position), he probably won't.

---------------Ter Stegen--------------
Roberto---Pique----Vermaelen---Alba
---------------Busquets----------------
--------Rakitić-------Iniesta-----------
---------------Paulinho-----------------
-----------Messi----Suarez-------------

I personally would go with the first one, because Roberto and Semedo together in defence would probably isolate Marcelo and apply a lot of pressure on Kroos. The second one is pretty narrow and that would probably mean a great game from RM's fullbacks. And Paulinho hasn't done much at CAM, really. He played great when he started at RCM and ran into the box, but at CAM he seemed pretty isolated.
 

Potroh

New member
Give me a break.

Gladly...!
Don't you realize that you have an idea (not an uncommon one, I admit) and just because you like your own idea, you virtually spread it on the shoulders of all highly qualified professionals working as coaches?
Have you ever met a living coach? Have you ever carefully watched dozens of important training situations? Not games, hard work behind closed doors, to know the various task a coach needs to accomplish. Have you ever been in a dressing room, where you found a good player sitting in a corner, almost crying due to the frustration? What would you tell him? Would you tell him he needs to fight, but fight even harder???

Do you seriously think the main mental-task for those players is to constantly "fight" for their positions? Don't you see a bit this game as a crusade with a lot of mental-blood being shred?
"Let the better player win"! - you say, but you seemingly don't realize that it is an absolute over-simplification of the tasks of both players and coaches???
Even those boxing coaches are able to say much more important and sophisticated things in the ring, apart from: Fight better my son!
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Gladly...!
Don't you realize that you have an idea (not an uncommon one, I admit) and just because you like your own idea, you virtually spread it on the shoulders of all highly qualified professionals working as coaches?
Have you ever met a living coach? Have you ever carefully watched dozens of important training situations? Not games, hard work behind closed doors, to know the various task a coach needs to accomplish. Have you ever been in a dressing room, where you found a good player sitting in a corner, almost crying due to the frustration? What would you tell him? Would you tell him he needs to fight, but fight even harder???

Do you seriously think the main mental-task for those players is to constantly "fight" for their positions? Don't you see a bit this game as a crusade with a lot of mental-blood being shred?
"Let the better player win"! - you say, but you seemingly don't realize that it is an absolute over-simplification of the tasks of both players and coaches???
Even those boxing coaches are able to say much more important and sophisticated things in the ring, apart from: Fight better my son!

Nope those top coaches like the idea of squad rotation and competition for places and dont share this idea that the players are so mentally fragile that competition is too stressful.

Simple as that. Your ideas are not supported by any top coach for good reason.

This idea that competition leads to frustration for players and they should play regardless of how they perform in previous matches is absurd and not logical or practical.

Name one coach that does that. You cant as before.
 
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DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Some journalists speculating Valverde will start Semedo at right back against Real Madrid due to the Marcelo factor so it can free up Alba on the other end.

It would be almost three weeks without playing, and if he struggles you'll have the usual suspects burning him to ground when he has had little consistency. Imagine being put into the biggest game of the season with little preparation the last few weeks being new in the team :lol:

I hope he doesn't make a boneheaded decision like that and starts Sergi.
 

Potroh

New member
Nope those top coaches like the idea of squad rotation and competition for places and dont share this idea that the players are so mentally fragile that competition is too stressful.

Okay, I didn't want to answer anymore, but let it be. In case the "1982" in your username is your birth-date, you are young enough, so in 20-30 years you may learn some things and come to different conclusions. I certainly and ignorantly didn't understand many things of this game at your age... Didn't understand some basic things, when I finished my carrier as a player and started to pick up many things when became a coach. When I started coaching, I understood half of what understood, when I left it, more than 10 yrs later... So:
- All coaches only "like the idea of squad rotation" - if the rotation is done for a specific purpose. Be it resting someone, injuries, easy games, difficult games, defensive games, attacking games, tactical changes, looking at upcoming games, or they simply rest a player because they want to send a message to him (that otherwise have been told 50 times verbally).
- There's one thing a good coach NEVER does, namely playing someone or resting someone, because the CROWD or the press demands that.
- Otherwise coaches do not like to rotate, they usually trust their ideal and chosen players, even if their form is not the best.
"Rotation" AND "competition" are not the same phenomena, for two obvious reasons:
- "Rotations" are done by the coach, taking sole responsibilities for the consequences.
- "Competition" is NOT the coach's task, it depends on the individual players, if they like, will, are able to or want to compete.

Hence, when you simply try to mix up rotation with competition, you simply fail at the first part of the sentence.
QUESTION:
If some players were "so mentally fragile that competition is too stressful" for them - as you say - then I obviously need to ask: How long is the period when he is strong enough and to have been competing all the time? - according to you, that is. Asking because:
- If he is 20, most probably he needs to compete with a predecessor in the same team. (If he is not good enough to take that place instantly).
- If he is 34 years old, most probably he needs to compete with a young one to keep his place. Fine.
But what does he do in between, during all those 14 years?
- Competes all the time, because it is necessary, just due to your idea?
- Competes all the time, even if there's nobody to compete with, because it has become an integral part of his nature?
- Competes all the time, because your ideal coach cannot live without competition for ALL positions?
QUESTION:
If he doesn't want to compete anymore, should he immediately leave the team, or there are other solutions to circumvent his obvious frustration?
QUESTION and example:
Is/was Ibrahimovic "mentally fragile" because he felt in Barca that "competition is too stressful"? Is he a typically "mentally weak or fragile" player?

Your ideas are not supported by any top coach for good reason.

My "ideas" are strongly supported by top coaches, specially that I learnt and studied these ideas from them. These are mainly THEIR ideas and not mine, whereas you constantly repeat your ideas, as if it was theirs...

this idea that competition leads to frustration for players and they should play regardless of how they perform

I've never said anything even similar or close to that. I don't believe players should play "regardless how they perform", but I believe in the principle (and almost all of those top-coaches do as well), that a few bad or unlucky games for a player, is not necessarily enough to bench him or giving up on him.
There's one exception: if the coach KNOWS that the player is not talented enough and will not develop anymore.
Top-coaches know that "performance" is a relative abstraction, because often a player is bad, just because others are even worse, etc.
(Example: last year Lucho didn't vote for the "healthy competition" between the two goalkeepers, although Ter Stegen was in bad form, the team lost important games due to his form, probably Barca could win the Liga with a present-Ter Stegen. There was another good keeper standing by, but he trusted Stregen. He was right and look at Stegen right now. Had he rotated him with Chillesen, perhaps the "frustration factor" would taken its effect, and Stegen would be worse than ever, or he may have even left in the summer).

Name one coach that does that. You cant as before.

I certainly can, though I'm simply lazy to do that, but Pep is a good example, just watch the setup and some games of ManchC this season. Some of his trusted players played horrible at the start, weren't "rotated" at all, and regained their form relatively soon.
The same stands for Suarez and Valverde, if indeed Suarez in ascending form, we will see that, the coach was absolutely right not to rotate him, under the circumstances.

Just remember one thing: players are always aware if they do not perform to their own standards, the coach is only needed to interfere, if their descending tendencies last too long.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
None of your idead that competition is bad for players is supported.

Not even sure what your argument is anymore to be honest as just waffling.

Pep is the opposite and believes in rotation and competition in his squads. Try again.

This idea that competition is bad for players and squads is clueless. No top coach supports that.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Some journalists speculating Valverde will start Semedo at right back against Real Madrid due to the Marcelo factor so it can free up Alba on the other end.

It would be almost three weeks without playing, and if he struggles you'll have the usual suspects burning him to ground when he has had little consistency. Imagine being put into the biggest game of the season with little preparation the last few weeks being new in the team :lol:

I hope he doesn't make a boneheaded decision like that and starts Sergi.

Two and a half weeks after playing very regularly is hardly a life time. Players go that long all the time without playing.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Two and a half weeks after playing very regularly is hardly a life time. Players go that long all the time without playing.

Example of players that weren't injured and didn't play for such long, were new in their club trying to adapt and started the biggest game of the season?
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Example of players that weren't injured and didn't play for such long, were new in their club trying to adapt and started the biggest game of the season?

Haha very specific.

If you dont think he could cope then fair enough but in terms of time out two and a half weeks is not a lot.

The other two reasons you give are just reasons not to play him at all if looking at it that way.
 

Xaviniesta

Senior Member
99% sure he is going to start El Clasico. He's started against Valencia and Atletico and Juve. It's a no brainer. I'd much rather have him face off vs Ronaldo than Roberto
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Haha very specific.

If you dont think he could cope then fair enough but in terms of time out two and a half weeks is not a lot.

The other two reasons you give are just reasons not to play him at all if looking at it that way.

Nah.

When you say stuff like 'players do that all the time' then sure, point out some examples. I'll take back the new player and adaptation aspect.

Go ahead.

If you believe a player playing once in three weeks, not starting against relegation fodder and then playing in a high intensity game like the Clasico is the best way for a new guy to adapt then sure lol. It's absolutely genius.

You could probably open a poll on every fan forum and 90% would say it's a boneheaded tactic.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Nah.

When you say stuff like 'players do that all the time' then sure, point out some examples. I'll take back the new player and adaptation aspect.

Go ahead.

If you believe a player playing once in three weeks, not starting against relegation fodder and then playing in a high intensity game like the Clasico is the best way for a new guy to adapt then sure lol. It's absolutely genius.

Nah.

When clearly referring to time in between games and then you add things in after that then ask for examples makes no sense.

Ok you are right. Semedo shouldnt play. He wont be ready. It is unlike anything ever been asked of a player in football.
 

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