Nelson Semedo

[Potroh]

Cant be bothered to reply to each point but disagree with pretty much all of it and it is not how top coaches work.

Bad news for you: this is how coaches work, or should work. I'd been a coach on the international level for more than a decade, and tried to learn a bit from the best ones.
This is what also taught at most "schools" too and regardless if you agree or not, these things are never as simple as your "when he proves to be better than..." sentences.
Coaching is an art-form and even if you are on diametrically opposite opinions, the basics still remain the basics.

As long as Semedo is the first pick right back when he proves to be better than Roberto all will be good. He was first choice and lost that as he should have.

All right, if you are unable to get what I'm trying to say, no problem. Then just simply read my last sentence "As a result of the present status and tendencies regarding these two, you will get two frustrated players, instead of none..."

 

[JamDav1982]

Bad news for you: this is how coaches work, or should work. I'd been a coach on the international level for more than a decade, and tried to learn a bit from the best ones.
This is what also taught at most "schools" too and regardless if you agree or not, these things are never as simple as your "when he proves to be better than..." sentences.
Coaching is an art-form and even if you are on diametrically opposite opinions, the basics still remain the basics.



All right, if you are unable to get what I'm trying to say, no problem. Then just simply read my last sentence "As a result of the present status and tendencies regarding these two, you will get two frustrated players, instead of none..."

It isnt how top coaches should work.

Bad news for you is have read many books and been to talks by likes of Alex Ferguson who says the exact opposite.

There is not one top manager that would sign a player and play them every game regardless of how they play in hope they one day become something.

Best way to get over his frustration is to play well enough to be the starting RB.

 

[LeeRomeno]

I am pretty sure that just as there are different players, there are different managers as well. You make it sound like there only 1 universal way to manage players. I am pretty sure Ferguson, Pep, Mou, Valverde, Lucho and all others have their nuances and try different things. Also once again, we do not have a clue why Semedo is used as he is. Only thing we do know is that he has not been great as of late.

 

[Potroh]

I am pretty sure that just as there are different players, there are different managers as well. You make it sound like there only 1 universal way to manage players.

Obviously there is no single or universal truth in this profession. It's a creative one.
But there are at least some basics, apart from the "better player should play" principle.

If the outstanding coaches you mention would only follow this simplistic principle, they would only train 5th grade teams till they retire.
It's the coach who brings out their best from each player. If he simply selects the ones in better form, then he actually does nothing.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

Our LB-situation is a good indicator why Valverde is playing both Semedo and Roberto. Digne is decent and he showed it everytime he got the chance, but Alba is far superior especially when it comes to attacking and finding Messi in the box.

On RB the situation is different. Roberto and Semedo both are decent, but none of them is superior compared to the other. They both offer different things and there are games where Semedo will be the better choice and others where Roberto is better suited to the role. This is an advantage as we have tactical options.

We have those tactical options also at LB as Digne is a better defender than Alba is, but as I said before Alba is too important for our game to sit him every 2nd or 3rd game. Same goes for players like Umtiti, MAtS, (Piqué), Busquets, Messi, Iniesta and Suárez. They are pure class and should start every big game no matter who the opponent is.

 

[JamDav1982]

The top coaches in similar situatuons have pretty much always done what Valverde is doing.

None of them follow this idea that potroh puts forward.

When a new player is bought even if as seen as future of that position they have to prove it with performances and are most often given time to do it.

I will trust how the likes of Fergie and Pep treat new players.

 

[Potroh]

The top coaches in similar situatuons have pretty much always done what Valverde is doing.
None of them follow this idea that potroh puts forward.
When a new player is bought even if as seen as future of that position they have to prove it with performances and are most often given time to do it.

The top coaches are much more sophisticated than that you repeatedly try to imply. Specially Pep - if you bring his example - he deals with players in a quite unorthodox manner.

I will trust how the likes of Fergie and Pep treat new players.

In this case you will always actually trust your own notion or principle, disguised as being the one followed by the coaching-stars. Thus everything will be fine, because you cover your imaginary conception with great names, never even thoroughly observing their actual methods...

 

[Alik]

Same goes for players like Umtiti, MAtS, (Piqué), Busquets, Messi, Iniesta and Suárez. They are pure class and should start every big game no matter who the opponent is.

And Rakitic

 

[JamDav1982]

The top coaches are much more sophisticated than that you repeatedly try to imply. Specially Pep - if you bring his example - he deals with players in a quite unorthodox manner.



In this case you will always actually trust your own notion or principle, disguised as being the one followed by the coaching-stars. Thus everything will be fine, because you cover your imaginary conception with great names, never even thoroughly observing their actual methods...

None of them will repeatedly start a new player game after game if they are not performing well enough as they see them as the future.

Your version of events is just out of thin air and not reality.

 

[henias]

If the tug of war is general conception on how long the players should have been played on the field, then it doesnt fully reflect on what is happening in reality. Technically Semedo has already "fought for his place", up till the Juventus game and should be playing majority of the matches(not necessarily has to be all). If he was rested right after Juventus, he should be playing 2 games after that since he was already fully rested for one entire week but instead he sat for alternate matches consecutively.

You can always say Semedo is at fault bcos he is the player and he has no control over the manager. But both Dembele and Semedo are new players that needs time to adapt, if Dembele was steadily showing good progress, he is bound to be a starter, like how he immediately started in the league games and sparked his injury. Semedo should also be consistently playing majority of the league games. Theres no simply clear cut reasons to rest him on alternate matches entirely.

I have nothing wrong with rotations. If thats the case, Rakitic shud have been well rested after the Juventus game and allow Roberto to take over him in midfield, but no, he played almost all the minutes while Semedo sat for a full 180 mins. Just not very logical. And he did have ONE single bad game against Atletico which he got crucified for.

Again, I'm not saying Semedo is not at fault but how Valverde should have better planned his player rotations. People are assuming this "manager is always right" mindset but like I said I wouldn't blame it all on the player neither will I blame it all on the manager. Manager-player management are critical and the fact that Suarez was given the luxury time to "find his form" doesnt quite reflect this whole "players fighting for their place" concept.

If new players shouldnt have such excuses, then the senior players should NOT have such preferential treatment as well. It's contradictory in nature. Now Semedo has sat entirely 2 games and still hardly played any league games. Even Vidal is seen much more.

U cant also compare him with some other players bcos they dont have that pressure and they know for a fact they will always just be a substitute to Suarez or Iniesta and some other untouchables.

And theres certainly more pressure on him now, because if he is given one rare game to prove himself and doesnt put an explicitly good performance, he will be criticised. But again if he decides to take the risk and says "fuck it, Imma prove myself" but if he makes a single mistake, he might get crucified and that goes his chance yet again. Whether of not he has a strong mentality or not, there's certainly a dillema. And the fact that Valverde criticised him openly for the goal against Valencia when Rakitic was the one that didnt support him, is definitely not helping at all. He could defend Suarez for missing a sitter but putting all the blame on one defender for a goal? Anyone, not just Semedo, will definitely think twice about going forward and would rather just play safe defensively.

If ur idea is that new players shud be judged the same way as other players, then I also see no reason for the likes of Suarez getting special treatment. If u say he needs to prove himself, he's not even getting much to prove himself now, He's only played 1/3 of the league minutes to Roberto and UCL is not applicable frm now till February. He wasnt even given a chance against an already won game against Deportivo if he were to come up against Madrid.

Theres always both sides to everything especially frm a players perspective instead of the idea that players are merely pawns of the manager and the fantasy that they will never have some questionable management or decisions is also simply ludicrous.

Both Roberto and Semedo are great talents that can be trained the right way and it's really up to Valverde to juggle between them right now, bcos if Roberto screwed up in some crucial games and needs a backup to cleanup the mess, he might realise that he neglected a potentially good player. If Semedo is judged then Valverde will be have to be judged as well. We will see then how well he handle for the the upcoming Chelsea match. He shouldn't be defended with excuses by then.

 

[Potroh]

Your version of events is just out of thin air and not reality.

If your "reality" is the constant fighting and hence uncertainty for a given player, then the only thing I can add at the end of our fruitful debate, is the strong feeling and also memories, that although I had the privilege to play under bad and even worse coaches, but I'd be most definitely not happy to play under your coaching principles... No player would.

These are the unsophisticated and A-typical principles that take away joy, confidence, creativity and fun from the players, so they rather feel to be in executing military service - under a stupid but strong lieutenant -, rather than playing a creative and wonderful, and also ever changing game...

 

[JamDav1982]

If your "reality" is the constant fighting and hence uncertainty for a given player, then the only thing I can add at the end of our fruitful debate, is the strong feeling and also memories, that although I had the privilege to play under bad and even worse coaches, but I'd be most definitely not happy to play under your coaching principles... No player would.

These are the unsophisticated and A-typical principles that take away joy, confidence, creativity and fun from the players, so they rather feel to be in executing military service - under a stupid but strong lieutenant -, rather than playing a creative and wonderful, and also ever changing game...

Yes that is reality for players fighting for their place in that it is uncertain and have to fight for it. Absolutely that is more preferable and benefical to the team than continuing to play a player regardless and is reason why top managers do it.

Dont really care what you think as the principle I support are the fairest ones and ones in general the top managers follow. So will go with them on this one.

Players fight and earn their place as a starter simple as that. Take that away and it is bad for the team.

The idea you put forward of starting Semedo every week as seen as the long term solution is not one any top coach follows for good reason.

 

[Potroh]

Yes that is reality for players fighting for their place in that it is uncertain and have to fight for it.

Yes Sir!!! Aye Sir, commander Sir! All we need is Fight!

and is reason why top managers do it.

Well, the slight pragmatic problem is, that those top managers don't do that... only bad ones do.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes Sir!!! Aye Sir, commander Sir! All we need is Fight!



Well, the slight pragmatic problem is, that those top managers don't do that... only bad ones do.

Your ideas are ridiculous and go with the assumption that competition for places in a squad is not good as pressures the players too much...

It goes with the idea that a younger players brought with the idea of being the future should be the starter regardless of performance or if there are other players out performing them.

Those ideas are polar opposite of the way the likes of Pep and Fergie operate. They seek competition and reward performances and those that can deal with it.

Players are there to earn their spot not to play every week pressure free and enjoy themselves as no cosequences.

Absolutely awful approach and not logical in the slightest.

I can name a load of examples where top managers behave that way. Can you name me one where they behave in way you claim?

Doubt it.

 

[LeeRomeno]

Obviously there is no single or universal truth in this profession. It's a creative one.
But there are at least some basics, apart from the "better player should play" principle.

If the outstanding coaches you mention would only follow this simplistic principle, they would only train 5th grade teams till they retire.
It's the coach who brings out their best from each player. If he simply selects the ones in better form, then he actually does nothing.

Disagreed, coach has to bring out best from team, man management is just part of it. Different players are different personalities and each need treatment in a different manner. You deal with Zlatan and Messi differently you would deal with Samper for example. In the end though, coach will be judged on how well he manages to make the players work as a team and get results (in a way accepted by the club).
So far our team has worked better with Roberto, simple as that. If it is because he is in better form or because he is just mentally more comfortable with Rakitic and other defenders, I do now know. And my point is that Semedos benching has its reasons, also sometimes you need to take one for the team and as much as all would like all our signings to succeed, history shows, that quite often, many of them fail and flop. Time will tell if Semedo will succeed or fail.