Neymar Jr.

[xxxxxx]

Have you heard of amortization? They have not spent 300M. Even if you speak about net spent which is 190M it means nothing considering transfers are made in installments. Transfers are amortized over period of time.

And we're not paying teams in installments for our transfers? Of course we are. Our net spend is only like 100m euros over the last 2 seasons..... so in that sense we're doing better. It's just our wage bill that's the problem..... and that's mostly because of Messi.

It's seems you're trying to make points about Real Madrid can do this and do that, and how they can pay installments if they wanted to. Of course they could. But so could we if we really wanted to. We literally could pay 4 to 5 years worth of installments of 50m if we wanted to. But why would we do that when we know he's not worth the valuation PSG have set him at? It's the same case for Madrid. And I doubt PSG would agree to it. I honestly feel they want most of the fee up front.

There's a reason why we haven't agreed a fee for Neymar and there's a reason why Madrid haven't even considered putting an offer in.

 

[Jcar]

With that logic, Neymar is better than Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Stoichkov, Figo, Henry, Etoo.
He is scoring more than all of them.

But then, the differences between clubs in 90s and 00s and today were not the same.
In 90s, Barca and Real were spending let's say 50M yearly for transfers.
And small clubs were spending 5-10M.

Today, Barca is spending 200-300M yearly.
Small teams are still spending 5-15M.

Look at how the number of goals scored per season grew over years:
Barca and Real:
1991': 74 - 63
92: 87 - 78
93: 87 - 75
94: 91 - 61
95: 60 - 76
96: 72 - 75
97: 102* - 85
98: 78 - 63
99: 87 - 77
00: 70 - 58
01: 80 - 81
02: 65 - 69
03: 63 - 86
04: 63 - 72
05: 73 - 71
06: 80 - 70
07: 78 - 66
08: 76 - 84
09: 105*- 83
10: 98 - 102
11: 95 - 102
12: 114 - 121
13: 115 - 103
14: 100 - 104
15: 110 - 118
16: 112 - 110
17: 116 - 106
18: 99 - 94
19: 90 - 63

Or look at the number of points won by a champion:
2000: Deportivo 69, Barca 64
2001: Real 80, Depor 73
2002: Valencia 75, Depor 68
2003: Real 78, Sociedad 76
2004: Valencia 77, Barca 72
= in 5 seasons, you had 5 different clubs in top 2: Real, Barca, Valencia, Depor, Sociedad.

2010: Barca 99, Real 96
2011: Barca 96, Real 92
2012: Real 100, Barca 91
2013: Barca 100, Real 85
= two horse race with 90-100 points and 100-120 goals per season scored.
Does that look the same as 90s and early 00s?
Or Bayern in Germany?
Or Psg in France?
Or Juve in Italy?
= all countries have 1-2 clubs whoa re too rich and are just playing football for fun, winning titles and breaking records easily.
While in 90s, in Italy for example 7 teams were fighting for a title in each season (Juve, Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Fiorentina), or several clubs in Spain: Barca, Real , Valencia, Deportivo, Atletico.
Today there is no competition.
Each country has 1-2 super rich clubs who are buying all world class players and the opponents are losing 5:0 for fun, or 10:1 in France.
During Ronaldinho, we were winning 2:0 majority of matches.
Those were normal matches back then.
Today, CR7 can score 4-5 against Eibar and similar in the last 10 minutes.
Ronaldinho was scoring 10 goals per whole season.
Do you think that CR7 is THAT better than Ronnie? I don't.

In 2000, Barca had Figo, Rivaldo, Kluivert, Lucho, Pep and won 64 points.
We scored 70 goals.
Real won a CL, had Raul-Morientes and scored 58 goals over 38 rounds.
In 2018, we had Rakitic-Gomes-Paulinho midfield and won 93 points and almost had a season of invincibles, lol.

So, if Neymar's numbers at Barca or from any other attacker are inflated, maybe it is because Barca/Real became too rich and thus had way better teams than their opponents (compared to 90s or 00s), so it is easier to have better numbers than in the past.

Neymar is already the third biggest goalscorer for the national team... He has 60 goals playing in 97 games.

There is no market in international football.

Messi has 68 goals with 136 matches.

Suarez has 58 goals with 111 matches.

Neymar is not better than messi, but you can see that Neymar is pretty effective for his team.

 

[BBZ8800]

Psg bought Neymar for 222M.
We paid 165+145=310 for Coutinho and Dembele.
Psg now wants Coutinho+Dembele for Neymar.
Sounds fair

[tw]1162125020786843650[/tw]

 

[CatalinR10]

 

[Zica]

Psg bought Neymar for 222M.
We paid 165+145=310 for Coutinho and Dembele.
Psg now wants Coutinho+Dembele for Neymar.
Sounds fair

[tw]1162125020786843650[/tw]

They want professionalism and they want Dembele ? Well that's hopeful of them if true. Doesn't matter because Dembele doesn't want to leave.

We may have paid that for Coutinho + Dembele. But they are worth half at most.

 

[BBZ8800]

Neymar is already the third biggest goalscorer for the national team... He has 60 goals playing in 97 games.

There is no market in international football.

Messi has 68 goals with 136 matches.

Suarez has 58 goals with 111 matches.

Neymar is not better than messi, but you can see that Neymar is pretty effective for his team.

Brasil was a host of a World cup in 2014 and didn't play qualification games.
So, they played million of friendlies.

Goals by competition
Competition Goals
Friendlies 41
Copa América 3
FIFA World Cup qualification 6
FIFA World Cup 6
FIFA Confederations Cup 4

When Romario, R9, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo played, they had to play qualification games.
= less games, tougher opponents, real matches, less goals scored

Neymar, goals by opponent:
8 Japan
5 Usa
3 China
3 South Africa

From 27 Neymar's friendlies, only 7 were against European teams (and even then a lot of weak opponents like Scotland, Austria, Turkey) and 20 matches mostly against Japan, China, Iraq, El Salvador, Panama, South Africa, Australia etc.

So, maybe he isn't better than Ronaldinho, R9 etc?

 

[NKMaribor]

And we're not paying teams in installments for our transfers? Of course we are. Our net spend is only like 100m euros over the last 2 seasons..... so in that sense we're doing better. It's just our wage bill that's the problem..... and that's mostly because of Messi.

It's seems you're trying to make points about Real Madrid can do this and do that, and how they can pay installments if they wanted to. Of course they could. But so could we if we really wanted to. We literally could pay 4 to 5 years worth of installments of 50m if we wanted to. But why would we do that when we know he's not worth the valuation PSG have set him at? It's the same case for Madrid. And I doubt PSG would agree to it. I honestly feel they want most of the fee up front.

There's a reason why we haven't agreed a fee for Neymar and there's a reason why Madrid haven't even considered putting an offer in.

The question is how much debt you can take and pay. It is question of liquidity. Barca has overspent Madrid in last period, despite having lower revenue. Get it?

 

[Jcar]

PSG bought Neymar thinking he would be a Messi. They paid money enough to what a Messi's level player would be...

Barcelona Bought Dembele hoping that he would become a Neymar... But he failed (he seens skillfull, but has problems). Coutinho was bought with Barcelona thinking that he would be monstruous... He failed.

Now, who is the player that Barcelona and Real Madri are trying to buy? Barcelona is trying to buy Neymar from 2014~2015 while Real Madrid is trying to get... Well... Maybe a player like Messi?

I think its easy to undertand why PSG is asking for so much.

The failed Neymar is still "bigger" than failed Coutinho and Dembele. But i would not agree with this lol

 

[messi2140]

Only a matter of time before BBZ drops FIFA 19 stats to prove his point.

 

[xXKonan]

BBZ has shat on Neymar even during the 14/15 season when he ran through a bad run of form.

If you guys thought this is bad you haven't seen anything.

 

[Jcar]

Brasil was a host of a World cup in 2014 and didn't play qualification games.
So, they played million of friendlies.

Goals by competition
Competition Goals
Friendlies 41
Copa América 3
FIFA World Cup qualification 6
FIFA World Cup 6
FIFA Confederations Cup 4

When Romario, R9, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo played, they had to play qualification games.
= less games, tougher opponents, real matches, less goals scored

Neymar, goals by opponent:
8 Japan
5 Usa
3 China
3 South Africa

From 27 Neymar's friendlies, only 7 were against European teams (and even then a lot of weak opponents like Scotland, Austria, Turkey) and 20 matches mostly against Japan, China, Iraq, El Salvador, Panama, South Africa, Australia etc.

So, maybe he isn't better than Ronaldinho, R9 etc?

That is the perfect oportunity to show that statistics don't tell everything. Brazil was in a slump in those times. We lost to Holland in WC and got into crisis. We had lots of problems with the friendlies while coached by Dunga, Mano Meneses and Felipao as coachs. We changed our Coach many times for how bad it was. It was in that time that was said that Brazil was not the same anymore. Neymar was everything that brazil had to show, the only thing that were working. And as YOUNG as he was, he CARRIED Brazil at his back. From 2010 to 2014... He had 18~22 years!

He is not better than them (not worse either), but he is just as much effective. You talks like he didn't make goals in big games. He has then against the best national teams. And even if Brazil held the World Cup, he made it with the qualification games for the Russia one.


And while Neymar play against weaker sides, the other bigger nations also play against them. Lots of important players don't have the same numbers as Neymar.

 

[Luftstalag14]

While Real Madrid has better finances than us, one of the reasons our wage bill is bloated is Messi's salary alone.

Of course they have better finances than us, most teams do. Our spending on wages and transfers has been awful in recent years. But to say Madrid can easily go out and spend 250m euros on Neymar after they just spent 300m euros already this summer is a bit silly..... regardless if you pay them in installments. Our wage bill is only fucked because we pay Messi so much. He makes up a good % of it.

If we're going by his logic, we could easily do it in installments of 4 or 5 years. Our net spend is something like 100m euros over the last 2 years.

Yes Messi's salary, estimated around 100m at pre-tax level is huge. However, even if we were to subtract from our total wage expenses/staffing salaries (639m at the end of 17/18 season according to club annual report), our staff cost to total expense ratio would still be at 61% last summer and this obviously did not include the wages of high earners such as Griezmann and De Jong that we took on later. The other thing is, after Messi is gone, we can't assume that 100m etc. will be freed up completely as we will be looking to sign other expensive big name stars that will take up a big portion of that vacuum left by Messi's salary.

At this point I don't think we can afford to take up Neymar's huge salary too, without offloading quite a few high earners first.

 

[Obiaseti]

If it's just Coutinho+Dembele straight swap for Neymar and no cash, we should consider it carefully. Mainly because over the last two years I haven't seen their combined output better Neymar's even at his worst for all his flaws. I agree that in terms of how much we paid it's a loss, but the valuation makes no sense taking into account the output from both players. With a straight swap, the question becomes are we better off with Coutinho and Dembele. I think the consensus is fairly clear on Coutinho. With Dembele do we honestly see him drastically improving this season? I don't see any indication of that yet.

If they ask for crazy cash like the quoted 100m then we should just hike up the price and let Madrid overpay.

 

[Jadentheman]

Psg bought Neymar for 222M.
We paid 165+145=310 for Coutinho and Dembele.
Psg now wants Coutinho+Dembele for Neymar.
Sounds fair

[tw]1162125020786843650[/tw]

To be fair both have depreciated in value. If no money is involved. Just give them Coutinho + Dembele (sorry fanboys) and include Rakitic as a bonus free of charge

 

[xxxxxx]

If we give up both Coutinho and Dembele for Neymar, I honestly think we'll be short on the wing department. With Neymar's injury problems in the last 2 seasons, I don't think we should give up Dembele at all.