Neymar - v2

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Jadentheman

Active member
Can some of the Neysayers explain why Neymar wouldn't fit into Barca's style. IIRC Neymar does lots of one twos and passing sequences. Or do you have to be La Masia to be capable of that? Last I checked Tiki Taka is similar to brazilian style of play.
 

Cule4life

The Culest
Can some of the Neysayers explain why Neymar wouldn't fit into Barca's style. IIRC Neymar does lots of one twos and passing sequences. Or do you have to be La Masia to be capable of that? Last I checked Tiki Taka is similar to brazilian style of play.

Cause Barca's style is not exactly working anymore? Neyney is too reliant on massive spaces which he wont get with teams parking Airbuses against Barca
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Can some of the Neysayers explain why Neymar wouldn't fit into Barca's style. IIRC Neymar does lots of one twos and passing sequences. Or do you have to be La Masia to be capable of that? Last I checked Tiki Taka is similar to brazilian style of play.

More slow buildup play/possession style=more time for the opposition to shove 9-10 players into defense and crowd the middle

Brazilian style is similar in a counterattacking sense where they play quick one-two's in fast attacking situations with space to exploit and usually only up against 2-3 defenders at a time max. Barca style is against parked buses with 5-6 defenders blocking you from even finding an attacking space or being able to connect with your teammates well. Most scenario's where he tries to play a one-two he'll end up playing a pass to his teammate, then trying to run through a crowd of defenders, but end up being completely separated from his teammate to receive the second pass and getting outmarked.

Usually the only way one-touch moves work at Barca is through more complicated triangular methods to find attacking space. To do that, the player must be able to make diagonal, inward, circular, or sideways runs at the perfect times to fluidly develop the sequence or create space for teammates. Also, the player has to fit in well with his teammates and know their behaviors and usual reactions like the back of their hand. You have to be 3-4 steps ahead at all times and be playing the events out in your mind like a game of chess.

That's why Alexis and even Cesc have trouble fitting into our style of play. Their positive aspects are usually shown in situations that aren't completely tiki taka style. Cesc gets it more than Alexis does, but it's still difficult to fully understand. I figure Neymar will sometimes be able to make it work, but mainly he'll only be good by exploiting space left by defensive errors or beating stupid defenders in 1v1's. That's why I think he won't be a total success in Europe. He'll score a decent amount of goals against weaker teams who make those errors, but will have a hard time exploiting those errors from teams as airtight as Bayern, Juve, Madrid, etc.

He obviously won't be a total failure with 2-3 goals a season or some ridiculously low number like that. However I doubt he will ever warrant a 45 million euro price tag and he won't become as good as he is hyped up to be. Better to spread that money around the entire club for squad/depth improvements in attack, defense, etc. and focus on internal tactical problems and raising youth rather than spending all their time and money to bring a star name to the club with the false expectation that he will automatically improve the team. It's idolizing him to be the savior in a superstitious way while ignoring the obvious practical problems that can and should be fixed to keep the club at an elite level challenging for major trophies on a yearly basis.
 

Jadentheman

Active member
Good arguments. Another thing I noticed is how even some Brazilians suggest that Neymar going to Barca could be a bad idea.

Last Match
 

LeoMessi10

New member
More slow buildup play/possession style=more time for the opposition to shove 9-10 players into defense and crowd the middle

Brazilian style is similar in a counterattacking sense where they play quick one-two's in fast attacking situations with space to exploit and usually only up against 2-3 defenders at a time max. Barca style is against parked buses with 5-6 defenders blocking you from even finding an attacking space or being able to connect with your teammates well. Most scenario's where he tries to play a one-two he'll end up playing a pass to his teammate, then trying to run through a crowd of defenders, but end up being completely separated from his teammate to receive the second pass and getting outmarked.

Usually the only way one-touch moves work at Barca is through more complicated triangular methods to find attacking space. To do that, the player must be able to make diagonal, inward, circular, or sideways runs at the perfect times to fluidly develop the sequence or create space for teammates. Also, the player has to fit in well with his teammates and know their behaviors and usual reactions like the back of their hand. You have to be 3-4 steps ahead at all times and be playing the events out in your mind like a game of chess.

That's why Alexis and even Cesc have trouble fitting into our style of play. Their positive aspects are usually shown in situations that aren't completely tiki taka style. Cesc gets it more than Alexis does, but it's still difficult to fully understand. I figure Neymar will sometimes be able to make it work, but mainly he'll only be good by exploiting space left by defensive errors or beating stupid defenders in 1v1's. That's why I think he won't be a total success in Europe. He'll score a decent amount of goals against weaker teams who make those errors, but will have a hard time exploiting those errors from teams as airtight as Bayern, Juve, Madrid, etc.

He obviously won't be a total failure with 2-3 goals a season or some ridiculously low number like that. However I doubt he will ever warrant a 45 million euro price tag and he won't become as good as he is hyped up to be. Better to spread that money around the entire club for squad/depth improvements in attack, defense, etc. and focus on internal tactical problems and raising youth rather than spending all their time and money to bring a star name to the club with the false expectation that he will automatically improve the team. It's idolizing him to be the savior in a superstitious way while ignoring the obvious practical problems that can and should be fixed to keep the club at an elite level challenging for major trophies on a yearly basis.
With all that being said who do you think would fit? Naturally anyone else who has been playing totally different systems for years will have trouble.
 

Jadentheman

Active member
I see Neymar being a hard worker to fit into Barca's style. If not then change it up slightly, no harm done there and Barca needs a fresh change of pace. The only thing that worries me is that him playing at Barca could mess him up on the Selecao
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
With all that being said who do you think would fit? Naturally anyone else who has been playing totally different systems for years will have trouble.

Tough pick but when it comes to transfers, the main idea is to find someone with the fundamental qualities to adapt to Barca and is smart enough to learn the system quickly. After that it's a matter of them getting used to it and adapting when they actually come.

In terms of forwards I'd say the ones that can learn and fit in at Barca would be:

Erik Lamela
Luis Suarez (although I don't like his attitude and I wouldn't want him here)
Sergio Aguero
Reus? I'll be honest and say I haven't observed him well enough to see how his movement is but going on others opinions, he'd fit
Muniain (but he's not a goalscorer so it'd be a redundant transfer unless we're looking for a 'next Iniesta')
Leo Baptistao (Same great qualities as Suarez minus the behavior problems)
Fischer? Same as Reus that I haven't seen enough of him but he seems really good. A transfer to barca would be a stupid career move though

Probably a few others but that's all I can think of for now.

Before some people go on crying that some of the listed names aren't as good as Neymar, that's not the point. These players have the fundamental qualities to fit in at Barca and learn the philosophy, and they are more intelligent and able to adapt than Neymar would be.
 

LeoMessi10

New member
Yeah I won't , I was just seeing your opinion. I think sergio Aguero would be the closest fit but I also don't see city getting rid of arguably their best player. He's also had injury problems this year which is just nothing we need at the moment considering all of our problems in that department. I'm very optimistic but I'm all for taking a chance with Neymar, if the scouts think he's as good as they say and they think he can fit here great. He may not and they may be blinded by the potential revenue from Neymar shirts etc. For instance Cristiano scored 3 goals while at Sporting Lisbon in 25 games but SAF took a risk and look at the results. I'm not saying every potential player will turn out as well as he has but if anyone has the potential its Neymar. He also has the potential to be a monumental flop but so does any player.
 

fcbdna

Banned
Good arguments. Another thing I noticed is how even some Brazilians suggest that Neymar going to Barca could be a bad idea.

Last Match

Nice game. . . A little bit wasteful when Santos were 1 down. Probably due to pressure and forced urgency.

anyone notice the play at 7:12 that's what I wan't someone with speed, intelligence and the technical ability to still do that!
 
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F

Flavia

Guest
DonAndres, you make good points. But why do you think those players are more intelligent than neymar? Also, I doubt baptistao would fit. I don't think he's anything special.
 

fcbdna

Banned
Tough pick but when it comes to transfers, the main idea is to find someone with the fundamental qualities to adapt to Barca and is smart enough to learn the system quickly. After that it's a matter of them getting used to it and adapting when they actually come.

In terms of forwards I'd say the ones that can learn and fit in at Barca would be:

Erik Lamela
Luis Suarez (although I don't like his attitude and I wouldn't want him here)
Sergio Aguero
Reus? I'll be honest and say I haven't observed him well enough to see how his movement is but going on others opinions, he'd fit
Muniain (but he's not a goalscorer so it'd be a redundant transfer unless we're looking for a 'next Iniesta')
Leo Baptistao (Same great qualities as Suarez minus the behavior problems)
Fischer? Same as Reus that I haven't seen enough of him but he seems really good. A transfer to barca would be a stupid career move though

Probably a few others but that's all I can think of for now.

Before some people go on crying that some of the listed names aren't as good as Neymar, that's not the point. These players have the fundamental qualities to fit in at Barca and learn the philosophy, and they are more intelligent and able to adapt than Neymar would be.

Erik Lamela : His play is still very mediocre ! Has energy to burn, but not the fastest! The Albiceleste are not stupid for capping just once 2 years ago

Luis Suarez : Horrible PR and never plays well on the wing. . . . If there's one word Suarez can't spell its "PASS" .

Sergio Aguero: Aguero as a winger? Lost a lot of speed under Mancini. . . Has a not so convincing history of injuries.

Reus: Would be the best fit. Been watching him since he was at Borussia Mönchengladbach. Skilfull, Fast and fearless. However i don't see it happening. Gotze, Hummels, Lewy all leaving. . You think they will let him go too, after just arriving? Maybe next season but not now. . . .

Muniain: Not too convinced. . . Has talent and is well proven, but has a very volatile form and personality (very Alba-ish). Perfectly fitted for RM quick give and go play. . . Not US (IMO).

Leo Baptistao : No need to give you reasons . . . . Its just not going to happen!

Fischer: Remember Eriksen? Big game choker 2.0. Never shows up at big games. . . Saw him play throughout the UCL. . . Wasn't exactly won over as a fan.
 
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DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
DonAndres, you make good points. But why do you think those players are more intelligent than neymar? Also, I doubt baptistao would fit. I don't think he's anything special.

Baptistao is a smart player, I think he's a bit underrated. He's raw and has great potential so a more proper opinion of him will be made when he goes to Atletico, we'll see how he does there. His best qualities are his intelligence and he's very flexible and versatile in attack and has well rounded qualities overall.

It's not only if they're smarter. It's that they are more adaptable to Barca style, have good movement, raw and mold-able ability, and have technique as a forte. Some are better players because of their higher footballing IQ, instinctive movements and behaviors, and understanding of team play. Others are more based around having technical skill, raw and un-refined talent, work ethic, and attitude. These fundamental qualities make it much easier for them to understand and adapt to the Barca style and add to the team rather than be an individual. It's easiest to adapt to Barca when you have raw talent and

The reason I'd say they are better than Neymar is because he doesn't seem to be special enough in the necessary ways to be a true success. The first thing that brings him down greatly is lack of work ethic and a party-boy attitude. Aside from that, he doesn't seem like a particularly intelligent player. He's not too stupid, but he's not as smart as say someone like Thomas Muller. Intelligence is key when playing for Barca. And another thing, technical skill=/= intelligence. He can perform all the cool stepovers he wants and look graceful doing so, but a truly intelligent player doesn't get shut down when the opposition fall for his tricks. A truly creative player would find a way to be successful even when his moves don't work. All Neymar seems to do is memorize tricks and then spit them back out blindly in random situations hoping they work, many times unsuccessfully.

However the main thing that makes it hard for me to think Neymar will fit in is that he's already such a refined player. He's completely built his style and is set in his ways. The worst part is that the style he's set himself to play by is so reliant on being flashy that it has many huge flaws that will be shown in Europe. It'd be much easier to fix him and change him if he was a raw player but he really isn't and that's what makes it hard. It's like how kids learn languages or instruments better when they start at a young age but adults have a hard time starting it because of the dead-set mental maturity that blocks them from growing. And I know he's only 21 but watching him play shows that he's already refined. When he does come he'll have to change a LOT and frankly with everything he'll have to fix, he'll end up looking like a shell of his former self with little creativity or innovation. Honestly he'll just become reliant on speed in Europe and maybe will have some slick passing but nothing truly special and little end product compared to now. We'll likely see flashes of his samba-brilliance against the likes of Osasuna or Mallorca but does that really prove anything or justify such a price tag?
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Erik Lamela : His play is still very mediocre ! Has energy to burn, but not the fastest! The Albiceleste are not stupid for capping just once 2 years ago

Luis Suarez : Horrible PR and never plays well on the wing. . . . If there's one word Suarez can't spell its "PASS" .

Sergio Aguero: Aguero as a winger? Lost a lot of speed under Mancini. . . Has a not so convincing history of injuries.

Reus: Would be the best fit. Been watching him since he was at Borussia Mönchengladbach. Skilfull, Fast and fearless. However i don't see it happening. Gotze, Hummels, Lewy all leaving. . You think they will let him go too, after just arriving? Maybe next season but not now. . . .

Muniain: Not too convinced. . . Has talent and is well proven, but has a very volatile form and personality (very Alba-ish). Perfectly fitted for RM quick give and go play. . . Not US (IMO).

Leo Baptistao : No need to give you reasons . . . . Its just not going to happen!

Fischer: Remember Eriksen? Big game choker 2.0. Never shows up at big games. . . Saw him play throughout the UCL. . . Wasn't exactly won over as a fan.

Never said they were all perfect now, just have the potential and ability to fit in. Plus I never said they all had to be options, I'd actually much rather prefer Baptistao to go to Atletico and make his name there, and Muniain to stay at Athletic, and Fischer to stay at Ajax. It's just a list of players who could possibly fit the bill if they were to come here.

Also all the youngsters I listed are there due to raw talent, not already exhibited merit. As I've said, they do have the fundamental qualities to fit in tiki taka football.
 

jklz

New member
Fischer: Remember Eriksen? Big game choker 2.0. Never shows up at big games. . . Saw him play throughout the UCL. . . Wasn't exactly won over as a fan.

Right, although he barely played in the Champions League. He made his debut in the 2-2 against Manchester City in the 87th minute and only played 1 more match for Ajax in the CL. On top of that, the kid is 17. He was also playing with a much weaker side to the Champions of England (for 5 minutes) and against Real Madrid (4-1 loss).
He has played a big role in a bunch of the bigger Eredivisie games, including PSV and Feyenoord home games.
Of course I'm not vouching for him to come or saying he is ready in the slightest, but your statement is ridiculous.
 
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