JamDav1982
Senior Member
They need to play on the wing as Messi will not play anywhere but the middle for the most part. Any pure striker would spend the majority of their time on the bench and would be a complete waste of money.
Neymar - v2
- Thread starter diegomessi
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They need to play on the wing as Messi will not play anywhere but the middle for the most part. Any pure striker would spend the majority of their time on the bench and would be a complete waste of money.
Stric
New member
Because as long as Messi is in the middle, Barca will either play without a proper striker (that is, with one that will play wide) or temporarily change to a 3-4-3. Therefore, buying a genuine striker without changing the system would be a waste of money.
0n0mat0p0eia
New member
Changing the system should be a given after what decent teams have done to us this year!
is the 'middle' so narrow that we couldn't play a striker with Messi behind?
is the 'middle' so narrow that we couldn't play a striker with Messi behind?
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The system is not the problem it is the fact there is not the correct players to make it work against the top teams.
darthvader7888
Banned
This. Unless we change the system completely, we need to get a striker who can play on the wing.
MagIX
Senior Member
1% of each European country to buy a Barca shirt? Or better yet, a Neymar shirt?
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
People tend to forget that with Neymar, we'll have to match winning players in him and Messi. Whenever the opposition team sets their strategy to limit Messi's presence, it will open up space for Neymar to take advantage of it. The same way, if the holding midfielders + defenders puts pressure on Neymar, it will open up more space for Messi to take an advantage of.
2 compact players on the same field will open up more space for one of them or other players in the team as the opposition can't limit both Neymar and Messi's role in a match without opening up a hole in the defence, midfield.
2 compact players on the same field will open up more space for one of them or other players in the team as the opposition can't limit both Neymar and Messi's role in a match without opening up a hole in the defence, midfield.
yahudi
New member
The striker / false 9 issue starts in the midfield. Compared to other top teams (especially Juventus or Bayern), the Barca midfield poses relatively little direct goal threat. If we also sacrifice at least one winger for defensive duties and creating advantage in the midfield, then we're basically asking Messi to play two positions at once: the engache who provides the final pass AND the striker to convert final passes to him.
What made Pep's team succesful? At least two of the 2009 trio were trying to get on the end of the final passes in pretty much every attack, same thing 2010 and 2011. As teams began to compress the space between the defensive lines to move Messi further from their goal, Pep moved one of the wingers (usually Alexis) upfront to push the defenders a few meters back, thus re-opening the gaps for Messi.
What to do now? Get an intelligent striker able to play with his back to the goal and work the channels between CB and FB. With the recent renaissance of the real 9 and players like Mandzukic, Lewandowski, Falcao, Cavani availiable, it is possible to get an athletic player able to score himself AND open the space for Messi or any of the midfield runners.
What does Neymar have to do with it? His main strengths are dribblings and great acceleration as he likes to beat the defenders with his first 4-5 steps. Pretty much the same qualitites as Deulofeu, honed to a further level though. Which means buying Neymar (and keeping Tello) would basically close the door for Deulofeu as their skill sets are too similar (and not too far away from the current wingers).
So what would Barcelona have in Neymar? A major talent and a great player by himself. He wouldn't add neither aerial threat/protection nor any major athleticism nor any new tactical possibilities to the squad.
P.S.: Sorry for my English, I lack the eloquence to express myself better
What made Pep's team succesful? At least two of the 2009 trio were trying to get on the end of the final passes in pretty much every attack, same thing 2010 and 2011. As teams began to compress the space between the defensive lines to move Messi further from their goal, Pep moved one of the wingers (usually Alexis) upfront to push the defenders a few meters back, thus re-opening the gaps for Messi.
What to do now? Get an intelligent striker able to play with his back to the goal and work the channels between CB and FB. With the recent renaissance of the real 9 and players like Mandzukic, Lewandowski, Falcao, Cavani availiable, it is possible to get an athletic player able to score himself AND open the space for Messi or any of the midfield runners.
What does Neymar have to do with it? His main strengths are dribblings and great acceleration as he likes to beat the defenders with his first 4-5 steps. Pretty much the same qualitites as Deulofeu, honed to a further level though. Which means buying Neymar (and keeping Tello) would basically close the door for Deulofeu as their skill sets are too similar (and not too far away from the current wingers).
So what would Barcelona have in Neymar? A major talent and a great player by himself. He wouldn't add neither aerial threat/protection nor any major athleticism nor any new tactical possibilities to the squad.
P.S.: Sorry for my English, I lack the eloquence to express myself better
Irish_Cules
New member
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
The system is not a problem???? After watching the 1st Bayern leg when Messi and the forwards barely even got a chance to touch the ball, you think that bringing in a new forward would change that? It'd just be another player who once again wouldn't be able to get service from the midfielders.
The system is the main problem right now. Lack of movement, lack of pressing, lack of attacking intent at times. Neymar isn't a magic wand that fixes everything, just something people make out to be our "savior". What's he gonna do if the team can't string together 4 good passes without getting dispossessed? What's he gonna do when guys like Lahm or Dante don't fall for his stupid moves? Nothing, that's what. All this does is waste time with an overpriced transfer when the real problem is that we are having trouble creating attacks, let alone finishing them. Fix the midfield problem ffs. People go on "blah blah blah Xavi & Iniesta blah blah blah" but the Bayern game clearly showed that we get run over with ease by strong opposition midfielders right now. Schweinsteiger and Martinez toyed with them. What's buying a forward gonna do if we can't even get the ball past midfield? The midfield problem directly relates to the defense one as well. Yet people act as if devoting all the focus/time into the transfer market is the solution, not fixing what's wrong with the team.
0n0mat0p0eia
New member
Man, you're English is fine. Especially if you're using words like 'eloquence'.
Lol, I bet the irony is lost on you!
How was that system working out for you in the CL semis, by the way?
darthvader7888
Banned
Our problem against Milan seemed to be a midfield problem as well (we weren't creating any chances, etc, etc), but improving the attack (putting Villa in front of Messi) helped our problems massively, although the midfield was also different tactically (they were pressing unlike the first leg, etc). Which is why I think playing Villa (probably in front of Messi) would have really helped against Bayern, and why Tito's choice not to play Villa really confused me.
I agree that tactics need to be changed even in midfield (the midfield definitely doesn't need new players or anything though, it's the best midfield in the world player-wise), but a new forward is also needed, especially if Villa leaves, since we won't have a goalscorer besides Messi. Like I said though, I'm not too convinced about Neymar myself, I think the way to go would be to get a striker who can play out wide, like Suarez or Aguero.
Worked great in 2011. It worked great the few times Tito got it right (like the second leg against Milan, it was a 3-4-3, but it wasn't that different from how we played in 2011). We don't need to overhaul the system completely, we just need some tactical changes like bringing back the pressing and playing someone who can score besides Messi (and we sometimes need to put that person in front of Messi, like the Milan game).
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DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
Most teams try to neutralize us by outmarking Messi, something that usually fails.
Bayern did the smartest thing I've seen in a while from opponents: mark/press everyone else so that Messi can't even get the ball. With that stroke of genius from Heynckes, they dominated our midfield. We couldn't make triangles for jack shit or string together any passes. Xavi wasn't creative enough to get the ball forward in any way, so we were stuck with passing it around the center circle passively. They were able to take us down because with the lack of any movement (which was extremely pathetic), our passing game was so goddamn slow and easy to neutralize. Ball possession is not the real Barca. Quick, unanticipated, fluid passing sequences in an unstoppable path towards the goal is the real Barca.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The system failed due to the players in it -
1. Messi was injured which makes a huge difference
2. Two attacking fullbacks - whereas it used to be one.
3. Wide players who cannot dribble, pass or change a game with individual actions
4. Center halfs not good enough
The Barcelona system worked at its best when there was one attacking full back, a leader at the back and three forwards that could all dribble, pass and posses a goal threat.
If the right players are in this system then it will still work.
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