Pep Guardiola

[Aryagorn]

And knowing how stubborn he is, that will never happen.

So, we will get the response: "Players haven't followed my ideas" till death.

Whenever his team loses, the players haven't followed his ideas. Lol.
He is "never" guilty and his tactics never need a tweak or evolution..

Have I lost track or something? When has the topic shifted from talking about Pep to Mourinho?

 

[BBZ8800]

Spain had similar success in the same period, but I think it's obvious Messi was the biggest factor. Pep using him as false 9 changed things, though.

Yes.
Pep's era was a mixture of a lot of "good things"
1. Pep is a 8/10 or 9/10 quality coach
2. Messi is the best player ever and in those days he was young, full of energy, motives and he was hungry for a success, titles and 1000s of Goals. Also his body was much younger and in a better state than currently
3. Other players, mostly Spanish were one of the best in the world, and also in their prime, like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol
4. Tiki-Taka was new and other teams didn't know how to defend well against it, as they know today

If we took Pep back today, would it be the same Barca? No way.
1. Messi is not that Messi anymore. He was young and hungry back then. He is still the best currently, but he is not as good/as hungry as that Messi.
2. Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol? Their prime is behind them. You could see the difference in motives and hunger between our players, and between Madrid's players yesterday, for example. They haven't won CL in 12. They will die on the field if needed.
Our players, who have won everything will hardly die on the field. More likely, they will walk around..
3. Tiki-Taka in 2008 and Tiki-Taka in 2014? Madrid didn't know back then how to defend against us. Even though we can still win against them, the sad truth is that they are getting closer and closer to us in the last 2-3 Seasons and that they cope much better today against us than in 2008 or 2009.
The same is with other teams like Chelsea, Atletico, Inter, Bayern (when they are NOT playing Tiki-Taka)
I know, people will always say: It is not because they have learned how to play against us, but because WE play/run/press weaker than before..

It was not all about Pep back then. It was a perfect era with a perfect coach, with a perfect Messi and with a bunch of other perfect players for our system in their prime (Xavi, Iniesta).

Imagine Pep in Barca in the next Season. Who will lead our team? 35 year old Xavi? Messi who is walking around on the field? Fabregas? Sergi Roberto?

Imo, people who are giving too much credits only to Pep and who think that he would save us again in 2015, are slightly too romantic.
Football is evolving all the time.
Except us.
We are still living in 2009'
It seems that we will repeat for the next 10 years: "We just need to go back to our roots, to our 2009's system.."
(Even Van Gaal's first era in Barca was extraordinary. When he came back a few years later, he was horrible and he was sacked. Did he lose all his knowledge in those 2-3 years? No, but the times have changed and other teams, especially Madrid have evolved back then)

Sooner we wake up, it will be better for us and for our future.

 

[Barcilliant]

Pep has all the right qualities to become a legendary coach, except one -- extensive tactical knowledge. He needs to be more strategic. Other than that, he has the charisma, the leadership, the rare power to unite players and make them to fight for the same thing.

In Barcelona's case, the team was strong enough to focuse on it's own game and not care about the opponent too much. But that was one of the most unique teams in the history of the sport -- one that many expert and pundits consider to be the best ever. Those days are over, for FC Barcelona and Josep Guardiola likewise. NO TEAM IS STRONG ENOUGH TO NOT CARE ABOUT THE OPPONENT today. Barcelona and Bayern payed the price for their lack of flexibility.

Well said. I've been banging on about this forever.

 

[Ghostmaster]

Football is evolving all the time.

Yep football is evolving into defensive show - who will defend better and refuse to hold possession.

Imo, people who are giving too much credits only to Pep and who think that he would save us again in 2015, are slightly too romantic.

Perhaps but with Pep we may have not lost against Valencia, Sociadad, Granada and Vallodolid. I think we should lower our expectations in CL front and concentrate on La Liga for time being, winning against smaller teams and collecting valuable points with Tata or other manager is achievable and should be our top priority next season.

 

[Behrox]

Messi is the best player ever and in those days he was young, full of energy, motives and he was hungry for a success, titles and 1000s of Goals. Also his body was much younger and in a better state than currently

I'd say physically Messi is as fit as ever its the mental recovery after 2 successive injuries to a player that hasn't been injured in 4 years that too in a WC year thats hindering Messi. Post WC Messi will be GOATing it again

 

[BBZ8800]

Yep football is evolving into defensive show - who will defend better and refuse to hold possession.

True.

So, currently:
a) we can stick to our style which proved too many times that it will be defeated in knockout games against counterattacking teams
-- but, we will stick to our style, we will play beautiful, attractive and sterile
-- and lose all matches, in the end
b) or.. we can slightly adjust our way (not against smaller La Liga teams, against which we still play good in Tiki-Taka) against top teams who only defend and play counterattacks
-- so, we will not play as attractive and beautiful in 4-5-10 matches per Season, but we will win both La Liga and Champions league

Would it be the end of the world if we would play less attacking in a few key matches in a Season (like against Bayern, Madrid, Atletico, Chelsea) and similar if that would mean winning both trophies, for example?

Again, we wouldn't play ALL matches in a Chelsea-style, but only a few of them.
And we don't need to play in a Chelsea-style. There are 1000 other options between passing-till-death-and-not-doing-anything-concretely-and-yet-losing-every-single-important-match-on-counterratacks (our current style in big matches) and Chelsea-style.

Again, Rijkaard won CL in 2006 with a slighly more cautious approach against Chelsea and Milan.
Did anyone cry because of that? No, because we won our first CL since 1992'

I'd say physically Messi is as fit as ever its the mental recovery after 2 successive injuries to a player that hasn't been injured in 4 years that too in a WC year thats hindering Messi. Post WC Messi will be GOATing it again

He plays 60-70 matches 90 minutes each for 7-8-10 Seasons in a row. With almost no vacations between Seasons.

His body is not in the same condition as in 2008.
And probably won't be ever again.

 

[Barcaman]

Whata joke on Bayern fans. They stormed Barcelona's tiki-taka last season to win the Champions League and then hired a coach to instill Barca's tiki-taka only to be crushed by a copy of Heynckes' Bayern.

Another proof how special tiki-taka was for Barcelona and reminder that it was the symbiosis of players talent and manager that made it work, not a stroke of one man genius.

 

[serghei]

Yep football is evolving into defensive show - who will defend better and refuse to hold possession.



Perhaps but with Pep we may have not lost against Valencia, Sociadad, Granada and Vallodolid. I think we should lower our expectations in CL front and concentrate on La Liga for time being, winning against smaller teams and collecting valuable points with Tata or other manager is achievable and should be our top priority next season.

With Pep we lost games with Osasuna, 3-2, and Getafe, 1-0. We also drew, 2-2 with Sociedad after we had 2-0 in the first 10 min. or so. Pep's last season was a bad one in the league, but we should have won the CL that year. That Chelsea tie was very unfortunate.

 

[Behrox]

True.

So, currently:
a) we can stick to our style which proved too many times that it will be defeated in knockout games against counterattacking teams
-- but, we will stick to our style, we will play beautiful, attractive and sterile
-- and lose all matches, in the end
b) or.. we can slightly adjust our way (not against smaller La Liga teams, against which we still play good in Tiki-Taka) against top teams who only defend and play counterattacks
-- so, we will not play as attractive and beautiful in 4-5-10 matches per Season, but we will win both La Liga and Champions league

Would it be the end of the world if we would play less attacking in a few key matches in a Season (like against Bayern, Madrid, Atletico, Chelsea) and similar if that would mean winning both trophies, for example?

Again, we wouldn't play ALL matches in a Chelsea-style, but only a few of them.
And we don't need to play in a Chelsea-style. There are 1000 other options between passing-till-death-and-not-doing-anything-concretely-and-yet-losing-every-single-important-match-on-counterratacks (our current style in big matches) and Chelsea-style.

Again, Rijkaard won CL in 2006 with a slighly more cautious approach against Chelsea and Milan.
Did anyone cry because of that? No, because we won our first CL since 1992'

He plays 60-70 matches 90 minutes each for 7-8-10 Seasons in a row. With almost no vacations between Seasons.

His body is not in the same condition as in 2008.
And probably won't be ever again.

We don't have to go defensive with a little bit of luck and a fully fit squad we would have won the CdR and the CL QF against Atleti (not saying they didn't deserve to win). Point is we need to play our own game but with purpose unlike what Xavi's idea of domination has become

 

[Barcaman]

... as we were fortunate to win at Stamford Bridge in 2009. We had more bad luck vs. Inter with that vulcano, offsides, Bojan's disallowed goal, etc.
Barca did play the best football for those 4 seasons though.

 

[Flavia]

And knowing how stubborn he is, that will never happen.

So, we will get the response: "Players haven't followed my ideas" till death.

Whenever his team loses, the players haven't followed his ideas. Lol.
He is "never" guilty and his tactics never need a tweak or evolution..

That's a weird statement. Pepe said last night, after the loss, he made tactical mistakes, that costed the match. If anything, he acknowledges his shortcomings.

 

[Ghostmaster]

And we don't need to play in a Chelsea-style. There are 1000 other options between passing-till-death-and-not-doing-anything-concretely-and-yet-losing-every-single-important-match-on-counterratacks (our current style in big matches) and Chelsea-style.

Again, Rijkaard won CL in 2006 with a slighly more cautious approach against Chelsea and Milan.
Did anyone cry because of that? No, because we won our first CL since 1992'

Exactly, it should be balanced approach: hold possession, defend, counter-attack, try to beat outside trap, bring in Pique or Bartra to score headers from corners, try long range shots etc, but instead, they end up holding the ball and then passing to Alves who crosses the ball in a hope that defenders will score own goals

 

[BBZ8800]

We don't have to go defensive with a little bit of luck and a fully fit squad we would have won the CdR and the CL QF against Atleti (not saying they didn't deserve to win). Point is we need to play our own game but with purpose unlike what Xavi's idea of domination has become

You can repeat that, the same excuse for the next 10 Seasons, if we stick to our tactics that don't work in big matches.

Look, someone will always get injured.
Someone will always get a red card.
We will always concede an unlucky corner-goal.

In 2012: Against Chelsea, excuse=we were unlucky, Messi missed a penalty
In 2013: Against Bayern, excuse=we had too many injured defenders, we would have won without injuries..
In 2014: Against Atletico, excuse=we again had injuries, we were unlucky

We had 1000s of injuries in some other Seasons, but we have won everything.
There will always be injuries and a tough luck. The real winners can overcome injuries, some red cards and corner goals.

Our current team and tactics, are sadly, not good enough for the highest positions.

We can repeat the same excuse in the next 10 Seasons if nothing changes. Someone will always be injured, and we will always concede one unlucky goal that will cost us..

 

[Behrox]

That's a weird statement. Pepe said last night, after the loss, he made tactical mistakes, that costed the match. If anything, he acknowledges his shortcomings.

I won't be surprised to see him try it again Pep's only flaw as a manager is that he is stubborn

 

[Chong Li]

That scenario has heartbreak and disappointment written all over it.

1)The games has evolved
2)Teams know how to neutralise tiki-taka
3) Our players bar a few are all WAY past their prime

why so pessimistic?

Of course we would need some new players, CBs, new defensive RB and an adequate replacement for Xavi.

Who else in current Barca other than Xavi is past their prime? I for one am sure Messi will be the best again, once we have a proper coach.