Pep Guardiola

Sterlingfan2000

Active member
According to kicker, sheikh mansour has said to txiki he will fire him this season if he cant bring guardiola this season.

Maybe thats why he is leaving, anyway he will be seen as a big failure if he leaves there and his image, even for barcelona fans will be somewhat destroyed.
 
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nnao

New member
You know about our cl away record with Pep?

Its funny Bayern kill the league, now it has little value, only cl can make their season good. Pep was screwed the moment he signed, Always gonna be compared to Heynckens Bayern with the treble. Very hard to beat that.
Should have gone to United back then.

Not really. Last season was a good season and would be remembered as even better if we hadn't folded against Real Madrid so catastrophically. And yes, I know about his CL away record with Barca.
 

Autumn

New member
The fact that Heynckes wins two CL in his 30+ year management career, and Pep wins two in his 5 year career seems lost on a lot of the media and fans.

This is just a way to maintain their delusion of being a much better team than they truly were two years ago. Overrated then and that 2013 team has only become more overrated as time has passed. I cannot wait to see them continue their failures after they drop Pep, never coming to the realization that they were simply never that special.

It'd be fun to see Pep at Man City against Mourinho. That team really needs a revolution.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
The fact that Heynckes wins one CL in his 30+ year management career, and Pep wins two in his 5 year career seems lost on a lot of the media and fans.

This is just a way to maintain their delusion of being a much better team than they truly were two years ago. Overrated then and that 2013 team has only become more overrated as time has passed. I cannot wait to see them continue their failures after they drop Pep, never coming to the realization that they were simply never that special.

It'd be fun to see Pep at Man City against Mourinho. That team really needs a revolution.

:facepalm:

Why does it matter how many CL trophies Heynckes has won vs. Guardiola? All the trophies Guardiola won with us matter NOTHING with regard to evaluating Guardiola's achievement at Bayern. What matters is what they did to Bayern.

At the very least, Heynckes did one thing right: Playing to the strengths of the Bayern players and continued a system left by Van Gaal that proved to be working for the most part. 4-2-3-1 was working well under Van Gaal with the exception of the imbalance between offense and defense by the end of Van Gaal's reign, which Heynckes focused on immediately after he took over. Neuer and Boateng were bought, and because Schweinsteiger-Kroos double pivot did not work, Kroos was pushed further up front and Luis Gustavo became the sweeping midfielder while Schweinsteiger was turned into the focal point of their defense-offense transition. Later Javi Martinez was bought because of Gustavo's limited ability in covering ground and ball distribution, Dante was also bought to strengthen their defense against headers and introduce more competition and depth in that department. Mandzukic was bought to provide more attacking options in the air and Rafinha was bought as a sub for Lahm. By the end of the 12/13 season, Bayern was an extremely well-oiled machine that has a lot of options in attacking and they used them to the fullest.

[formation=Bayern,6]
Neuer
Lahm-0-Boateng-0-Dante-0-Alaba
0-0-0-0-0-0-0
0-0-Martinez-0-Schweinsteiger-0-0
0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Robben-0-0-Kroos/Mueller-0-Ribery-0-0
0-0-0-0-0-0-0
0-0-Gomez/Mandzukic-0-0-0-0
[/formation]

And what did Guardiola do? He promised he wouldn't change much, but he ditched 4-2-3-1 at his first opportunity and started 4-1-4-1: Martinez was pushed to the backline as a CB, Schweinsteiger was the lone defensive midfielder, and when he was out injured, Thiago out of everybody was made that "1" in the midfield. Of course Thiago wouldn't fare well in that position, and they lost to BVB 2:4, Guardiola's first game managing Bayern I think. Later Lahm was put in the midfield and he introduced 3-4-3, a formation that crowded the midfield and something that worked extremely well against the minnows of Bundesliga but failed against top teams (that was the starting formation he used in the 1st leg against us at Camp Nou until he changed it around the 20th minute last Wednesday). Tactics wise, he was too keen on proving tiki-taka would work elsewhere than just in Barcelona, possession became the ultimate goal, passed and passed until you fell asleep. I do think he improved in the current season, last season some of Bayern's games were simply too boring to watch. Result wise, under Guardiola Bayern killed off the mid and bottom table teams in Buli easily but struggled against the top teams, as some folks have already mentioned.

In short, Heynckes built on Van Gaal's legacy, fixed some glaring holes and played to the strengths of their players. Guardiola on the other hand seemed to be too eager to leave an imprint of his on Bayern, he changed a system that was working perfectly fine to fit his own ideas with little regard to their players' abilities. I mean, if it is ain't broken, why fix it?

What Heynckes was able to accomplished was no small feat. And Guardiola took over a really great team that he hasn't made much improvement over two seasons, I think.
 
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mssarm

Member
Pep made very bad decision with Bayern, he went with safest choice and it backfired. How much credit you can take with winning Bundesliga.It is like Barca buying CR7 and Bale from RM and bragging about winning La Liga. I have a respect for him as Barca player and prominent Barca coach, but I never liked the fact that he left Barca and went to Bayern. Look at Messi, Pique, Xavi, Inietsa.. Those guys could go to another club, make more money, more perks, probably more respect..but they stayed with the club through good times and bad timers and Guardiola should have done the same. Last year Messi played for a club with no silverware, with big scandals involving board members, with chaos inside the club and club management not really supportive with his own tax fraud case. It was perfect excuse for him to leave, but he didn't.
 

Richard.H

Senior Member
Pep made very bad decision with Bayern, he went with safest choice and it backfired. How much credit you can take with winning Bundesliga.It is like Barca buying CR7 and Bale from RM and bragging about winning La Liga. I have a respect for him as Barca player and prominent Barca coach, but I never liked the fact that he left Barca and went to Bayern. Look at Messi, Pique, Xavi, Inietsa.. Those guys could go to another club, make more money, more perks, probably more respect..but they stayed with the club through good times and bad timers and Guardiola should have done the same. Last year Messi played for a club with no silverware, with big scandals involving board members, with chaos inside the club and club management not really supportive with his own tax fraud case. It was perfect excuse for him to leave, but he didn't.

To be fair, tiki taka was getting fully figured out by many teams. We wouldn't have been so flexible with our play styles if he was still here. He just wanted to impose his own ideas onto another team. I agree that he left when the going got tough, but you could see tiki taka slowly dying out during that 11-12 season. Plus, his two big transfers that season were more failures than successes (Cesc and Alexis)
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Pep made very bad decision with Bayern, he went with safest choice and it backfired. How much credit you can take with winning Bundesliga.It is like Barca buying CR7 and Bale from RM and bragging about winning La Liga. I have a respect for him as Barca player and prominent Barca coach, but I never liked the fact that he left Barca and went to Bayern. Look at Messi, Pique, Xavi, Inietsa.. Those guys could go to another club, make more money, more perks, probably more respect..but they stayed with the club through good times and bad timers and Guardiola should have done the same. Last year Messi played for a club with no silverware, with big scandals involving board members, with chaos inside the club and club management not really supportive with his own tax fraud case. It was perfect excuse for him to leave, but he didn't.

Well, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think you can't really blame him for leaving us, since there was known rift between him and the board, even before Rosell came in. I was reading "Pep Confidential", the author revealed that Guardiola thought of leaving us as early as 2010. Toward the end of his tenure he was simply exhausted and he didn't feel he could go further and do much more with us. That's why he left.
 

Radec

New member
Apart from that stupid game Bayern vs Real Madrid 0-4 by Pep Guardiola I don't think he been bad for bayern. Up until Messi changed the game Bayern were doing excellent for a team full of injuries.
 

Kinlejus

New member
Well theres one solution , just allow investments to the league. This is the only solution that will work

You may want to look at how professional leagues are operated in USA(i.e. NFL, MLB, NBA). Healthy competition is what drives revenue, and how do you make it more competitive? Well, one thing is to introduce salary cap, another - revenue sharing between all the teams. By that I mean not just gate, but also TV rights.
I am not too familiar with the system in Germany, but looking at how they let one dominant enterprise steam roll pass the others suggest the ridiculously firmly embedded monopoly within football there.

On the other hand, quick glance at weekly average Bundesliga game attendance(e.g. surpassed PL recently and now only trailing NFL among the professional leagues) indicates that germans, after all, are not too concerned with Bayern's dominance.
 

StarLord

New member
The fact that Heynckes wins two CL in his 30+ year management career, and Pep wins two in his 5 year career seems lost on a lot of the media and fans.

This is just a way to maintain their delusion of being a much better team than they truly were two years ago. Overrated then and that 2013 team has only become more overrated as time has passed. I cannot wait to see them continue their failures after they drop Pep, never coming to the realization that they were simply never that special.

It'd be fun to see Pep at Man City against Mourinho. That team really needs a revolution.

I agree with this post. Completely. Bayern fans and the German press are utilizing Pep as a scapegoat for the obvious collapse of their exceedingly inflated self-perception. It is much easier (and psychologically acceptable) to blame a manager (especially a foreign one) than to admit that you were never that awesome in the 1st place.


Pep made very bad decision with Bayern, he went with safest choice and it backfired. How much credit you can take with winning Bundesliga.It is like Barca buying CR7 and Bale from RM and bragging about winning La Liga. I have a respect for him as Barca player and prominent Barca coach, but I never liked the fact that he left Barca and went to Bayern. Look at Messi, Pique, Xavi, Inietsa.. Those guys could go to another club, make more money, more perks, probably more respect..but they stayed with the club through good times and bad timers and Guardiola should have done the same. Last year Messi played for a club with no silverware, with big scandals involving board members, with chaos inside the club and club management not really supportive with his own tax fraud case. It was perfect excuse for him to leave, but he didn't.


Bayern was a horrible decision by Pep, but when he signed, he did not know that Bayern would have won the CL (annihilating us in the process) and consequently the German fans and media would come to view the CL as their birthright :)lol:)

He went for the apparent safe option, and it backfired on him completely. Any top EPL side would have been a much better option. As much as we hate it, the EPL holds many advantages over continental leagues (except playing the actual game itself that is) More exposure, more forgiveness in terms of missing out on titles, as much money as you 'd ever want, etc etc etc...

Had he chosen United (with their epic revenues, and no FFP since it is all business generated) he could have succeeded where Moyes failed. By his name alone, he would have attracted lots of top class Spanish/Spanish speaking players, and build from there.

City is also a very good option for him, especially if they can get round FFP in some ways. Having a bad CL record, will make semi-final exits look like a success.

But I would also add this: Liverpool are also a great choice. Before everyone jumps in horror, let me explain:

1. They are not as rich as the super-rich clubs of Europe. But more than rich enough to be great with the right moves. This would allow Pep to do his thing while also playing the "underdog" card.

2. Underperformers for decades now. Any success with Pep (such as a league title) would be hailed as colossal triumph. A league victory with Bayern means zilch. Something similar with Liverpool would enhance his reputation even further.

3. Hell, even a Top 4 finish would be a success there.

4. Had Pep gone there, Liverpool would not be the bang-on average side they are now. They would have players such as Thiago, Bernat, Alonso, and maybe even Alexis and/or Cesc. There would be no Balotellis, Markovic etc...
 

Sterlingfan2000

Active member
You may want to look at how professional leagues are operated in USA(i.e. NFL, MLB, NBA). Healthy competition is what drives revenue, and how do you make it more competitive? Well, one thing is to introduce salary cap, another - revenue sharing between all the teams. By that I mean not just gate, but also TV rights.
I am not too familiar with the system in Germany, but looking at how they let one dominant enterprise steam roll pass the others suggest the ridiculously firmly embedded monopoly within football there.

On the other hand, quick glance at weekly average Bundesliga game attendance(e.g. surpassed PL recently and now only trailing NFL among the professional leagues) indicates that germans, after all, are not too concerned with Bayern's dominance.
Salary cap wont work, because football is also played in Europe. And germans are hating the dominance.
 
R

Ryu Hayabusa

Guest
The fact that Heynckes wins two CL in his 30+ year management career, and Pep wins two in his 5 year career seems lost on a lot of the media and fans.

This is just a way to maintain their delusion of being a much better team than they truly were two years ago. Overrated then and that 2013 team has only become more overrated as time has passed. I cannot wait to see them continue their failures after they drop Pep, never coming to the realization that they were simply never that special.

It'd be fun to see Pep at Man City against Mourinho. That team really needs a revolution.

One of the dumbest postings I've ever read on these boards.

Comparing Pep's and Jupp's careers by the measure of years per CL trophy, makes my brain go *boom*. Also, what is more likely, that everyone other than you and well-known Barca-braggards like StarLord are the only ones who saw they light, while everyone else was fooled, or that everyone simply saw things for what they were and you and StarLord are merely trying to do some disgraceful historical revisionism?
 

StarLord

New member
You may want to look at how professional leagues are operated in USA(i.e. NFL, MLB, NBA). Healthy competition is what drives revenue, and how do you make it more competitive? Well, one thing is to introduce salary cap, another - revenue sharing between all the teams. By that I mean not just gate, but also TV rights.
I am not too familiar with the system in Germany, but looking at how they let one dominant enterprise steam roll pass the others suggest the ridiculously firmly embedded monopoly within football there.

On the other hand, quick glance at weekly average Bundesliga game attendance(e.g. surpassed PL recently and now only trailing NFL among the professional leagues) indicates that germans, after all, are not too concerned with Bayern's dominance.

You cannot draw parallels between European football and the US professional leagues. There is an aristocratic element in European football, which is not present in American sport. Moreover, the US is a massive unified state (plus, it contains Canada as well) and is more than able to sustain all those leagues easily. Europe is made up of much smaller states with competing interests/languages/outlooks/traditions etc. Even Germany, the largest European state, is but a small fraction of North America. The financial advantage of the Premier League is based on global revenue (Russian money, Emirati money, South East Asian money etc) not on the domestic economy. If I were either of Spain/Germany/Italy I would be courting the BRICS for some kind of accord. Spain would do well to move into that direction.
 

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