Pep Guardiola

[Jamie Cal]

It is a sign of Pep and Citys arrogance and didnt help City at all or Bayern it seems. City were second when it was announced. It didnt help them at all.

Not saying they would have won league but saying they are not the fourth best team in EPL. They have the best squad.

Pep could easily say to City it doesnt get announced until end of season.

They hammered Sevilla in Spain without their best players and were unlucky to lose twice to Juventus. Also knocked out PSG.

City are not one of the top teams in europe or a guarantee to win league but they are the easiest job in EPL the league he was clearly going to.

I still don't think that announcing his arrival played a part in the outcome of either's season, really. Nothing THAT unexpected has happened to either. It's certainly not the reason they went out tonight; it was a fantastic game that could of gone either way.

I mean, couldn't you just as easily say it's a sign of Peller's arrogance to announce it, knowing the club would have to readjust? I'm not saying it's the perfect thing to do from any party; these things are messy anyway you cut them, I just don't think it's the supreme arrogance. It was obvious Pep was going there and gonna be unavoidable, plus Bayern want to do their thing.

Again, I'm not sure how much it matters as such, but they played Kyiv and a pretty poor PSG side, in the second leg PSG had none of their regular 3-man midfield. They robbed Sevilla the first day and Raheem was brilliant, and completely robbed Gladbach. That was with KDB too. But as I've said in the other thread, luck is a huge part of a run, especially for teams on the ropes, like Real and City.

I'm not disputing the EPL thing, but who else could he go to? Styistically, who is there? Chelsea obviously not. United are going down their route of structure first. Arsenal would of been a great fit, who I thought back in the day might be his side and are in very good state (I know they bottled it a bit, but had tons of injuries, are only a few players off imo.) bu seem content with Wenger, that could'a been a more stable job.


My whole point is to call it an easy way out is unfair on the man. Their squad is fairly old, a lot of key components are questionable (Toure, Silva, Kompany, Zaba). And we've been shown that money can't solve everything. They've spent the bones of 200 mil on 4 players this season and it has hardly improved them at all, even then it hasn't in the league.

 

[bismp]

Man 4 consecutive semifinal exits.He is really starting to get into "Loser" territory

 

[JamDav1982]

I still don't think that announcing his arrival played a part in the outcome of either's season, really. Nothing THAT unexpected has happened to either. It's certainly not the reason they went out tonight; it was a fantastic game that could of gone either way.

I mean, couldn't you just as easily say it's a sign of Peller's arrogance to announce it, knowing the club would have to readjust? I'm not saying it's the perfect thing to do from any party; these things are messy anyway you cut them, I just don't think it's the supreme arrogance. It was obvious Pep was going there and gonna be unavoidable, plus Bayern want to do their thing.

Again, I'm not sure how much it matters as such, but they played Kyiv and a pretty poor PSG side, in the second leg PSG had none of their regular 3-man midfield. They robbed Sevilla the first day and Raheem was brilliant, and completely robbed Gladbach. That was with KDB too. But as I've said in the other thread, luck is a huge part of a run, especially for teams on the ropes, like Real and City.

I'm not disputing the EPL thing, but who else could he go to? Styistically, who is there? Chelsea obviously not. United are going down their route of structure first. Arsenal would of been a great fit, who I thought back in the day might be his side and are in very good state (I know they bottled it a bit, but had tons of injuries, are only a few players off imo.) bu seem content with Wenger, that could'a been a more stable job.


My whole point is to call it an easy way out is unfair on the man. Their squad is fairly old, a lot of key components are questionable (Toure, Silva, Kompany, Zaba). And we've been shown that money can't solve everything. They've spent the bones of 200 mil on 4 players this season and it has hardly improved them at all, even then it hasn't in the league.

Pellegrini was put in an impossible situation when the club told him a month before it was announced that Pep was taking over.

The players definitely looked distracted and have gone from 2nd in the table and favourites to win the league to fourth.

Players like Hart and Toure have had to face speculation about Pep not wanting them. Almost impossible for it not to provide a distraction and players to wonder if Pep wants them for the next season.

You highlight games where City didnt play great but won but ignore them playing well vs Juventus twice and finishing top of their group without four of their best players for the most part.

No one is saying City are guaranteed for title or going to win CL but it is the easiest job he could take in EPL by far in terms of squad and how much money he will be given.

 

[Jamie Cal]

Pellegrini was put in an impossible situation when the club told him a month before it was announced that Pep was taking over.

The players definitely looked distracted and have gone from 2nd in the table and favourites to win the league to fourth.

Players like Hart and Toure have had to face speculation about Pep not wanting them. Almost impossible for it not to provide a distraction and players to wonder if Pep wants them for the next season.

You highlight games where City didnt play great but won but ignore them playing well vs Juventus twice and finishing top of their group without four of their best players for the most part.

No one is saying City are guaranteed for title or going to win CL but it is the easiest job he could take in EPL by far in terms of squad and how much money he will be given.

Ffs man, don't be petty. I'm not ignoring them playing well against Juventus, I can't remember those games. Fair play to them. I could just as easily say you ignored half of my points, like playing Kyiv or an under-powered (and poor anyway) PSG team - but again, what's the point? It's just being pedantic.

And again, it's hardly an impossible situation with Pellers - he could of just as easily said nothing. If he was told a month earlier, like when it was announced Pep would leave and Carlo would take over, why not announce Pellers was leaving then? He could of just as easily said nothing if he wanted, but it's best for him to get his name out for another job.

All of that, AND I acknowledged that it's not an ideal situation or perfect by any party. To lump it on Pep is just ignorant.

They were 3rd by the end of November, btw, not 2nd. By game week 17, the 19th of December, just as Pep announed he'd leave at the end of the season, they were 3rd. 6 Points off the top, 4 off 2nd, and the team in 4th only a win behind them. They've had their injuries but it's not like United and Arsenal haven't been riddled with them either. I'm not going to say you're ignoring my parts of my post because it was long, but like I said, they didn't win away in the league from September 26th (Spurs) when KDB was still fit, til JANUARY 2nd against Watford.

Other than KDB and Aguero (maybe Hart), who is key personnel for them? Otamendi's had a so-so season, Kompany's been crap with a while, Silva's diminishing, Yaya too....so whose left? Their squad really isn't all that impressive. Some better management from Chelsea, less injuries for Arsenal and either have just as good a squad at the moment. Certainly not "by far" as you put it.

 

[Jamie Cal]

Man 4 consecutive semifinal exits.He is really starting to get into "Loser" territory

I just find it funny how people gloat about this and ignore so much with other managers. You rarely see Ancelloti's 3 league titles in over 2 decades brought up. Or Mourinho's horrible full-on bottling in the CL since leaving Inter every single year. Or that maybe Heynckles had more than one go at the CL with Bayern and it didn't go so good. Or the level of competition Pep has faced in those semi finals.

Not that Pep doesn't have flaws, but people sure look to rip the man down when they can.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ffs man, don't be petty. I'm not ignoring them playing well against Juventus, I can't remember those games. Fair play to them. I could just as easily say you ignored half of my points, like playing Kyiv or an under-powered (and poor anyway) PSG team - but again, what's the point? It's just being pedantic.

And again, it's hardly an impossible situation with Pellers - he could of just as easily said nothing. If he was told a month earlier, like when it was announced Pep would leave and Carlo would take over, why not announce Pellers was leaving then? He could of just as easily said nothing if he wanted, but it's best for him to get his name out for another job.

All of that, AND I acknowledged that it's not an ideal situation or perfect by any party. To lump it on Pep is just ignorant.

They were 3rd by the end of November, btw, not 2nd. By game week 17, the 19th of December, just as Pep announed he'd leave at the end of the season, they were 3rd. 6 Points off the top, 4 off 2nd, and the team in 4th only a win behind them. They've had their injuries but it's not like United and Arsenal haven't been riddled with them either. I'm not going to say you're ignoring my parts of my post because it was long, but like I said, they didn't win away in the league from September 26th (Spurs) when KDB was still fit, til JANUARY 2nd against Watford.

Other than KDB and Aguero (maybe Hart), who is key personnel for them? Otamendi's had a so-so season, Kompany's been crap with a while, Silva's diminishing, Yaya too....so whose left? Their squad really isn't all that impressive. Some better management from Chelsea, less injuries for Arsenal and either have just as good a squad at the moment. Certainly not "by far" as you put it.

PSG were not any more 'under powered' than City who deservedly beat them.

City finished top of a tough group with majority of their best players missing. More players than PSG had missing when it is used as an excuse for them.

Pep announced he was going to be Man City manager in February when they were second in the table and favourites for the league. Neither Arsenal or Man Utd missed players as good as City had out.

Arsenal woudnt give him the money City will and Chelsea wont even be in CL to attract players.

Other managers commented on the Pep issue affecting Man City and Pep apologised for not being respectful to managers in a job already in England.

 

[bismp]

I just find it funny how people gloat about this and ignore so much with other managers. You rarely see Ancelloti's 3 league titles in over 2 decades brought up. Or Mourinho's horrible full-on bottling in the CL since leaving Inter every single year. Or that maybe Heynckles had more than one go at the CL with Bayern and it didn't go so good. Or the level of competition Pep has faced in those semi finals.

Not that Pep doesn't have flaws, but people sure look to rip the man down when they can.

I am not saying that he is not a good manager,but his last 4 seasons have proved that he is not the GOAT that some people assumed he was.I haven't watched the Atletico tie,but the losses against Real and Barca were on him

 

[Jamie Cal]

PSG were not any more 'under powered' than City who deservedly beat them.

City finished top of a tough group with majority of their best players missing. More players than PSG had missing when it is used as an excuse for them.

Pep announced he was going to be Man City manager in February when they were second in the table and favourites for the league. Neither Arsenal or Man Utd missed players as good as City had out.

Arsenal woudnt give him the money City will and Chelsea wont even be in CL to attract players.

Other managers commented on the Pep issue affecting Man City and Pep apologised for not being respectful to managers in a job already in England.

PSG had Motta-Matuidi-Verratti out, man. City had Kompany, I can't remember anyone else....Silva maybe? And again they're a poor side anyway.

like the whole thing about you saying they were 2nd -- I brought the stuff in December to show it wasn't that much of a departure from how they were doing, and their away form when players were fit, a lot of them were for the group stage. But if we're going from the start of February, when you said they were 2nd, they were still only 2nd by a game over 3rd and 4th. A game, dude. Who did they play in those weeks? SUNDERLAND, who they beat, then Leicester (away) and Spurs (home) who beat them. Hardly the most unexpected, is it?

Also take into account Jamdav, that they were playing around this time more games than ever, including latter stages of an Carling Cup, Fa Cup, and Champions League. They played the top 2 teams in the league and lost, one of which by a late goal in a cracking match.

Yu pull me up on Juventus games as if I have some agenda when I acknowledged their win against Sevilla when Raheem scored a brilliant hat trick, but then ignore so much of what I say. Their squad is nowhere near "by far" the best. Arsenal have injuries again cost them big from, what, December on? They were going great up to Christmas. United have been absolutely riddled with injuries - I don't know how you could dispute that - and they were going well for the first few months. City as a whole really don't have many assured key players in their team, like I said last post.

At the end of the day, I just feel lumping the blame on Pep for some collapse or perceived arrogance is wrong.


edit: JamDav, weren't PSG missing someone at the back so Aurier had to play too?

 

[Jamie Cal]

I am not saying that he is not a good manager,but his last 4 seasons have proved that he is not the GOAT that some people assumed he was.I haven't watched the Atletico tie,but the losses against Real and Barca were on him

Oh I agree, he has his faults. I'm not sure I'd put the blame on him for our game, though, he had us completely shut down for 70 minutes until Messi pulled goals out of nothing.

 

[JamDav1982]

PSG had Motta-Matuidi-Verratti out, man. City had Kompany, I can't remember anyone else....Silva maybe? And again they're a poor side anyway.

like the whole thing about you saying they were 2nd -- I brought the stuff in December to show it wasn't that much of a departure from how they were doing, and their away form when players were fit, a lot of them were for the group stage. But if we're going from the start of February, when you said they were 2nd, they were still only 2nd by a game over 3rd and 4th. A game, dude. Who did they play in those weeks? SUNDERLAND, who they beat, then Leicester (away) and Spurs (home) who beat them. Hardly the most unexpected, is it?

Also take into account Jamdav, that they were playing around this time more games than ever, including latter stages of an Carling Cup, Fa Cup, and Champions League. They played the top 2 teams in the league and lost, one of which by a late goal in a cracking match.

Yu pull me up on Juventus games as if I have some agenda when I acknowledged their win against Sevilla when Raheem scored a brilliant hat trick, but then ignore so much of what I say. Their squad is nowhere near "by far" the best. Arsenal have injuries again cost them big from, what, December on? They were going great up to Christmas. United have been absolutely riddled with injuries - I don't know how you could dispute that - and they were going well for the first few months. City as a whole really don't have many assured key players in their team, like I said last post.

At the end of the day, I just feel lumping the blame on Pep for some collapse or perceived arrogance is wrong.

Matuidi was out as he was suspended after getting booked in the first leg when he was horrific.

Here is what Pellegrini has since said about the Guardiola announcement.

But after Saturday’s 3-0 win against Chelsea, he opened up about the impact the Guardiola news had on his squad.

He said: “For different reasons we lost important games in February against Leicester and Tottenham - for me the two games that don’t allow us now to be involved in the title.

“In the start of February came the news about the change of the manager - (telling) the players I will not continue here next year. A lot of things that involve the minds of all the players.

“We had those defeats at home. Now I think we are stable again and I’m very happy to finish the way we are doing in these last games.”

Pellegrini added: “It was not easy for the players when you read in the newspapers and the media all what will happen next season. All the players that will go out - all the players that will come in.

“It’s not easy for the players to just be focusing their minds.”

What injuries have cost Arsenal or Man Utd big? To the same extent that City have missed Kompany, KDB, Silva and Aguero for large parts of the season?

Pep has since apologised and other managers have mentioned how unfair it is to Pellegrini and other managers in the league due to Peps comments both before and after announced as City manager.

 

[Jamie Cal]

Matuidi was out as he was suspended after getting booked in the first leg when he was horrific.

Here is what Pellegrini has since said about the Guardiola announcement.

But after Saturday’s 3-0 win against Chelsea, he opened up about the impact the Guardiola news had on his squad.

He said: “For different reasons we lost important games in February against Leicester and Tottenham - for me the two games that don’t allow us now to be involved in the title.

“In the start of February came the news about the change of the manager - (telling) the players I will not continue here next year. A lot of things that involve the minds of all the players.

“We had those defeats at home. Now I think we are stable again and I’m very happy to finish the way we are doing in these last games.”

Pellegrini added: “It was not easy for the players when you read in the newspapers and the media all what will happen next season. All the players that will go out - all the players that will come in.

“It’s not easy for the players to just be focusing their minds.”

What injuries have cost Arsenal or Man Utd big? To the same extent that City have missed Kompany, KDB, Silva and Aguero for large parts of the season?

Pep has since apologised and other managers have mentioned how unfair it is to Pellegrini and other managers in the league due to Peps comments both before and after announced as City manager.

I'm done with the long posts now if you're just gonna skim them. I acknowledge plenty of your points, you act like I make none.

City had a very tough run in when it was announced, and the first game it was announced, amid all the hysteria, they won. Away from home. A team that for over 3 months hadn't won away from home at one point. They then went away to the eventual winners of the league and lost, hardly a shock. All of this in the midst of 3 cups, and some injuries.

Matuidi having a bad first leg is irrelevant - just because a player has a bad game doesn't mean he's not an asset - is Aguero cruicial to City after his poor game against Real?

You said they had by far the best squad, and yet when they lost some players, went down the tube. United have parts of the season used 3rd tier players at left back, right back, up front. Why do you think names like Borthwick Jackson, Varela, Lingard, Rashford have all blown up?

Arsenal have had tons of injuries - Wilshere the whole season, Alexis 2 months, Theo for over a month just as he looked to be doing well, Santi for months on end, Coq for 2 months, Cech missed a month, Ramsey has had a few injuies that have kept him out over a month, Flamini has missed over a month, Rosicky has missed allmost the season. All their backline has missed weeks too.

You're free to look here for reference: http://www.arsenalreport.com/injuryroom/

All of this and I haven't even mentioned that this year had been an off year for many, many clubs. There's no guarantee it'll be as easy as this year for a side to win it, in fact, the opposite.




Edit: http://www.skysports.ie/football/ne...st-far-worse-than-premier-league-title-rivals nice headline ehh

 

[bismp]

Oh I agree, he has his faults. I'm not sure I'd put the blame on him for our game, though, he had us completely shut down for 70 minutes until Messi pulled goals out of nothing.

Yeah it is not his fault that Messi scored the first goal.The second goal was more of a collapse by the Bayern defense,utilized by Messi and his magic.However,he then told his players to try to score an away goal,when their morale was at the lowest level.That,combining with the high defense line,resulted in the third goal.If i were him,i would tell my players to defend,as a 2-0 is a better result than a 3-0 and they would actually have some chances to get to the final.

Also,he may have had a lot of injuries,but Bayern created almost nothing,and we all know how crucial an away goal can be.Iiirc in all of his 4 last semifinals,his teams never scored an away goal

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm done with the long posts now if you're just gonna skim them. I acknowledge plenty of your points, you act like I make none.

City had a very tough run in when it was announced, and the first game it was announced, amid all the hysteria, they won. Away from home. A team that for over 3 months hadn't won away from home at one point. They then went away to the eventual winners of the league and lost, hardly a shock. All of this in the midst of 3 cups, and some injuries.

Matuidi having a bad first leg is irrelevant - just because a player has a bad game doesn't mean he's not an asset - is Aguero cruicial to City after his poor game against Real?

You said they had by far the best squad, and yet when they lost some players, went down the tube. United have parts of the season used 3rd tier players at left back, right back, up front. Why do you think names like Borthwick Jackson, Varela, Lingard, Rashford have all blown up?

Arsenal have had tons of injuries - Wilshere the whole season, Alexis 2 months, Theo for over a month just as he looked to be doing well, Santi for months on end, Coq for 2 months, Cech missed a month, Ramsey has had a few injuies that have kept him out over a month, Flamini has missed over a month, Rosicky has missed allmost the season. All their backline has missed weeks too.

You're free to look here for reference: http://www.arsenalreport.com/injuryroom/

All of this and I haven't even mentioned that this year had been an off year for many, many clubs. There's no guarantee it'll be as easy as this year for a side to win it, in fact, the opposite.




Edit: http://www.skysports.ie/football/ne...st-far-worse-than-premier-league-title-rivals nice headline ehh

My point is Matuidi missed one game not both of them and he was poor and missed the next one due to his own booking.

City had Kompany, Toure and Sterling missing and KDB barely even fit.

You are missing the point about Arsenal again. The numbers of injuries Arsenal may well have the most but they have not missed players of the calibre that City did throughout the season.

You can disagree with me and ignore the opinion of Pellegrini on how the players were affected if you like and just choose to post your opinion again and again.

Not even sure why you are loitering on the injuries point anyway. Arsenal have won fuck all and the injuries alongside the management announcement and the fact they have switched focus to CL in recent weeks are what have contributed to them sitting fourth.

If both had fit squads Man City are far ahead of Arsenal and a more complete squad.

 

[Jamie Cal]

Yeah it is not his fault that Messi scored the first goal.The second goal was more of a collapse by the Bayern defense,utilized by Messi and his magic.However,he then told his players to try to score an away goal,when their morale was at the lowest level.That,combining with the high defense line,resulted in the third goal.If i were him,i would tell my players to defend,as a 2-0 is a better result than a 3-0 and they would actually have some chances to get to the final.

Also,he may have had a lot of injuries,but Bayern created almost nothing,and we all know how crucial an away goal can be.Iiirc in all of his 4 last semifinals,his teams never scored an away goal

That is true about the 3rd goal, I often find his biggest flaw is to overcomplicate things due to his own intensity. That said, when we got that goal, there was a palpable lift, we had them on the back foot, anything could happen. At the end of the day, the 3 teams that have beaten have been pound for pound the best that year.

His away record in Europe is pretty awful indeed. But I think against Atleti every chance you get counts for more because of the team they are, you're never gonna have a ton of chances because of the protection they off their CBs and goalie.

 

[Jamie Cal]

My point is Matuidi missed one game not both of them and he was poor and missed the next one due to his own booking.

City had Kompany, Toure and Sterling missing and KDB barely even fit.

You are missing the point about Arsenal again. The numbers of injuries Arsenal may well have the most but they have not missed players of the calibre that City did throughout the season.

You can disagree with me and ignore the opinion of Pellegrini on how the players were affected if you like and just choose to post your opinion again and again.

The point about Arsenal is in relation to "by far" best squad. Squad and team are different. Toure and Sterling aren't even in their best 11 now when fit. I've asked who their key players are and even pointed to some of them diminishing, being over 30 etc.

Santi and Coq and Alexis and Cech are all key players, and you can make cases for some of the others. Want to debate them?

Again, Matuidi being poor is totally irrelevant. I debunked that. He is a key player regardless of a poor game.

It may have affected the players and manager, but as you said yourself, Pellers knew about it a full month before, it didn't show up in results.


The results post-announcement were largely as you'd expect (WON THE FIRST GAME POST ANNOUNCEMENT) especially with some key players missing, and you won't even acknowledge it. You won't even acknowledge how little there was in the difference in league position, literally one game between 2nd and 4th!