Quique Setien

[BBZ8800]

Do you think EV was winning La liga this year or reaching CL semis?

I think that EV was declining.
But even with the worst EV, we would have 50% chances to win La Liga this year.
And Eernieball would win against Napoli 99% surely.

Setien, imo:
Chances to win La Liga: 10% if some magic and luck happens.
CL: Imo, we will probably get KOd against Napoli.
If he survives that match, everything is possible, since a CL is a lot about luck.
Especially since we will probably be out of La Liga race by March and out of CDR (as seen today).
So, he could pull "a Real Madrid" and win a CL in otherwise horrible season, since his players will be fresh in April (due to losing all other competitions).

EV, on the other hand would probably guide us to a CDR final, he would fight for La Liga till the last round.
So, we wouldn't be fresh in CL quarters and semis.

In this moment, from football seen by Setien, I still had more faith in EV than in Setien.
For now.

And I think that this will turn out to be a mistake.
And from: anyone will be better than EV.
It will probably end as: wow, we got even worse than under EV (results wise).
** You know that beautiful football is not a top priority for me.
Wins are priority.
If we can win and play beautiful, fine.
If not: an ugly win is always better than Arsenal-esque type of defeats.

And that is exactly what some members are trying to sell currently.

 

[JamDav1982]

I think that EV was declining.
But even with the worst EV, we would have 50% chances to win La Liga this year.
And Eernieball would win against Napoli 99% surely.

Setien, imo:
Chances to win La Liga: 10% if some magic and luck happens.
CL: Imo, we will probably get KOd against Napoli.
If he survives that match, everything is possible, since a CL is a lot about luck.
Especially since we will probably be out of La Liga race by March and out of CDR (as seen today).
So, he could pull "a Real Madrid" and win a CL in otherwise horrible season, since his players will be fresh in April (due to losing all other competitions).

EV, on the other hand would probably guide us to a CDR final, he would fight for La Liga till the last round.
So, we wouldn't be fresh in CL quarters and semis.

In this moment, from football seen by Setien, I still had more faith in EV than in Setien.
For now.

And I think that this will turn out to be a mistake.
And from: anyone will be better than EV.
It will probably end as: wow, we got even worse than under EV (results wise).
** You know that beautiful football is not a top priority for me.
Wins are priority.
If we can win and play beautiful, fine.
If not: an ugly win is always better than Arsenal-esque type of defeats.

And that is exactly what some members are trying to sell currently.

Barca had their worst start to a season in years and were not winning league under EV. Were going backwards fast.

 

[mc_lovin]

I think that EV was declining.
But even with the worst EV, we would have 50% chances to win La Liga this year.
And Eernieball would win against Napoli 99% surely.

Setien, imo:
Chances to win La Liga: 10% if some magic and luck happens.
CL: Imo, we will probably get KOd against Napoli.
If he survives that match, everything is possible, since a CL is a lot about luck.
Especially since we will probably be out of La Liga race by March and out of CDR (as seen today).
So, he could pull "a Real Madrid" and win a CL in otherwise horrible season, since his players will be fresh in April (due to losing all other competitions).

EV, on the other hand would probably guide us to a CDR final, he would fight for La Liga till the last round.
So, we wouldn't be fresh in CL quarters and semis.

In this moment, from football seen by Setien, I still had more faith in EV than in Setien.
For now.

And I think that this will turn out to be a mistake.
And from: anyone will be better than EV.
It will probably end as: wow, we got even worse than under EV (results wise).
** You know that beautiful football is not a top priority for me.
Wins are priority.
If we can win and play beautiful, fine.
If not: an ugly win is always better than Arsenal-esque type of defeats.

And that is exactly what some members are trying to sell currently.

I would agree if Setien was still high on his 3-5-2/3-4-3, but we are playing a more conservative 4-3-3 in the mold of Valverde right now, just with a lot more positivity (aka not Valverdes toxic mindset).

 

[Tackle]

How many years did Klopp get at Liverpool before winning something? He wouldn't even dream of something like that here
And I really like him as a manager.

Liverpool were in shambles for over a decade. Were they not trying then and were they intentionally attempting to sabotage themselves? Were all those managers, scouts and directors they went through over the years clueless? Or is building a top level football club just a lot more complicated than following a set of instructions? Klopp, a once in a generation manager comes in and fails to win a trophy for 5 seasons with many heartbreaking and crushing losses along the way. After all those years, pain, anguish, defeat and misery they finally emerge from the ashes and we've got muppets on here speaking as if we can replicate them in a matter of years.

If only every club listened to Serghei's great advice then they all might be flying by this point. Just appoint a great manager and buy good players. It's so simple. This is the result of the modern football fan consuming too much FM and FIFA. Reality is a much harsher place.

 

[JamDav1982]

Liverpool were in shambles for over a decade. Were they not trying then and were they intentionally attempting to sabotage themselves? Were all those managers, scouts and directors they went through over the years clueless? Or is building a top level football club just a lot more complicated than following a set of instructions? Klopp, a once in a generation manager comes in and fails to win a trophy for 5 seasons with many heartbreaking and crushing losses along the way. After all those years, pain, anguish, defeat and misery they finally emerge from the ashes and we've got muppets on here speaking as if we can replicate them in a matter of years.

If only every club listened to Serghei's great advice then they all might be flying by this point. Just appoint a great manager and buy good players. It's so simple. This is the result of the modern football fan consuming too much FM and FIFA. Reality is a much harsher place.

Klopp did not fail to win for five seasons.

He won CL in third full season.

 

[FC433]

^
Klopp changed the squad, while Valavrde kept the old ones.

 

[fergus90]

I think that EV was declining.
But even with the worst EV, we would have 50% chances to win La Liga this year.
And Eernieball would win against Napoli 99% surely.

Setien, imo:
Chances to win La Liga: 10% if some magic and luck happens.
CL: Imo, we will probably get KOd against Napoli.
If he survives that match, everything is possible, since a CL is a lot about luck.
Especially since we will probably be out of La Liga race by March and out of CDR (as seen today).
So, he could pull "a Real Madrid" and win a CL in otherwise horrible season, since his players will be fresh in April (due to losing all other competitions).

EV, on the other hand would probably guide us to a CDR final, he would fight for La Liga till the last round.
So, we wouldn't be fresh in CL quarters and semis.

In this moment, from football seen by Setien, I still had more faith in EV than in Setien.
For now.

And I think that this will turn out to be a mistake.
And from: anyone will be better than EV.
It will probably end as: wow, we got even worse than under EV (results wise).
** You know that beautiful football is not a top priority for me.
Wins are priority.
If we can win and play beautiful, fine.
If not: an ugly win is always better than Arsenal-esque type of defeats.

And that is exactly what some members are trying to sell currently.

We are 3 points behind Madrid and were equal with them when Valverde was here, so just by Setien being here your hypothetical calculator has dropped our chances 40%?
We weren't exactly blowing teams away with Valverde mate came on, Lyon 0-0, then at 2-1 at home we were shaky as anything and on another day could have easily been punished. United had plenty of the ball against us too and we were toothless at Old Trafford.

18/19 and this season under Valverde we were less of a winning machine, beautiful football had never been there, results in 17/18 had. However, even that started to evaporate from the start of last season.
Barca 0-0 Getafe
Las Palmas 1-1 Barcelona
Barca 2-2 Girona
Leganes 2-1 Barca
Barca 3-4 Betis
Huesca 0-0 Barcelona
Levante 2-1 Barcelona
Granda 2-0 Barcelona
Levante 3-1 Barcelona
Espanyol 2-2 Barcelona
Barca 0-0 Slavia Prague
Olympiacos 0-0 Barcelona (17/18).

So the least I'd expect from a Barca fan is to back Setien if he delivers similar results. Because the way I see it, some people would have you believe Barca has let go of the messiah and relented our title as European juggernauts. We've been failing consistently since 2012 bar the treble season. We were declining under Valverde further after Anfield.

 

[BBZ8800]

^
Klopp changed the squad, while Valavrde kept the old ones.

Klopp changed a squad in a team which hasn't won a league for 30 seasons.

EV got a team who was the most successful team in the last 15 years.

At which team is it easier to turn the page:
1. in a team with shitty players who didn't win anything for 30 years
2. or in the most successful team in the world where majority of players who won the biggest trophies are still here and it is extremely hard and somewhat unfair to sell them

To some extent, we are now paying a price of our own success.

Today we have amigos and a debate: whether they should play, stay or get sold.
The same will happen in 1-2 years with Messi.
He will decline and will be on a level of a current Busi or Suarez.
What then?
To bench/sack/sell the biggest legend in a history of a club or do=exactly the same what we are doing with the amigos currently?

That is a problem when you win TOO MUCH:
1. if you keep those players for too long=you will end as a current Barca or Galacticos in 2005
2. if you sell those players who win all the trophies=you will be kinda an asshole who stabbed those players in the back after they brought you 20 trophies and god knows how many Billions

Whatever you do, you are screwed.
It is what it is...

 

[JamDav1982]

If Barca were to win the league BBZ would blame Real for 'losing it'.

Barca were going nowhere and that Classico was one of the worst home performances in years.

Teams can play badly but when teams look as unmotivated and as devoid of energy as did that game then it is clear sign things need to change.

 

[khaled_a_d]

EV is gone, this is the reality of it. The whole what if won't change anything.
Discussing him right now is just nothing but war of egos, every side trying to prove themselves right.
Quique didn't fire him anyway, it isn't fair to judge him based on EV situation, hell if we took Abidal word that guy was our last resort.
Let's judge him as a coach without going back to other coaches.

The good news, that at least everyone now can at least see the problem of this squad and how it starts with the board. This is something we can all now agree. The final judgement on Quique isn't now anyway.
Obviously CDR loss hurts him if he fails to win Liga/CL since it is always a good way to salvage a bad season. But we are still in play for the other two even if we are underdogs now.

 

[serghei]

EV is gone, this is the reality of it. The whole what if won't change anything.
Discussing him right now is just nothing but war of egos, every side trying to prove themselves right.
Quique didn't fire him anyway, it isn't fair to judge him based on EV situation, hell if we took Abidal word that guy was our last resort.
Let's judge him as a coach without going back to other coaches.

The good news, that at least everyone now can at least see the problem of this squad and how it starts with the board. This is something we can all now agree. The final judgement on Quique isn't now anyway.
Obviously CDR loss hurts him if he fails to win Liga/CL since it is always a good way to salvage a bad season. But we are still in play for the other two even if we are underdogs now.

Agreed. Everything starts with the board by default, since they run the club basically. Even a terrible manager is their fault. Even the fact that they sold a lot of squad players without taking into account possible injuries that may appear is also the board's fault.

 

[BBZ8800]

We are 3 points behind Madrid and were equal with them when Valverde was here, so just by Setien being here your hypothetical calculator has dropped our chances 40%?
We weren't exactly blowing teams away with Valverde mate came on, Lyon 0-0, then at 2-1 at home we were shaky as anything and on another day could have easily been punished. United had plenty of the ball against us too and we were toothless at Old Trafford.

THis is a forum and people have different views, a different history and different estimations.

If you think that our chances under Setien are the same as under EV, fine.
That is your opinion.
We will see what will happen at the end of a season.

My opinion is that in terms of La Liga, our chances dropped a lot.
Since:
1. he is new
2. he will need some time to make a rookie mistakes of leading a big team and to learn how to set a team to win every single match (which he hasn't learned at Betis, while EV at least learned how to win leagues in Greece. At least he had some experience how to win in every match, even in an ugly way if needed)
3. EV was bad in the first season regarding rotations, he didn't have experience.
Setien will go through the same process in this season.
So, EV from a season 3 has more experience in rotations for 3 competitions than Setien from a season 1.
4. and internal battles which were bound to happen after sacking a coach midseason, and especially if things will start bad for a new coach (which is already happening)

My estimation was even before EV's sacking:
10% chances that a new coach will improve a team
30% chances that everything will stay the same
60% chances that things will turn to even worse

While majority thought something like:
90% chances that ANYONE would improve a team
9% that everything will stay the same
1% chance that things will turn to worse, how is that even possible?

With Klopp or Pep, we would be in 10% or 30% brackets.
With Setien, as expected, imo, we will end in a 60% bracket where we will long term turn to even worse.

People here are overly optimistic and naive in my opinion.

Changing EV for a new coach is a similar story like Suarez.
Suarez is not perfect, but if you try to change him, we will be even worse.
And to find a better fit than a current Suarez, you need to be extremely, extremely lucky with a transfer. Chances are probably 10-20% at max.
Majority of signings will end as Jovic, Paco or Griezmann.

So, on paper, it is easy to say: anyone would be better than EV/Suarez and similar.
In reality: well, you will see what will happen...

 

[George_Costanza]

Should we change the forum name to arsenalforum? Losing is losing in the end. And there is no time for losers at this club.

Wow man, we needed someone like you after the Roma match. Where were you while we were getting high?

 

[Horatio]

If Barca were to win the league BBZ would blame Real for 'losing it.

I can tell you have been gone for a while. Because for the past two seasons this has been the go to-argument by the majority for us winning the last two La Liga titles.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Klopp changed a squad in a team which hasn't won a league for 30 seasons.

EV got a team who was the most successful team in the last 15 years.

At which team is it easier to turn the page:
1. in a team with shitty players who didn't win anything for 30 years
2. or in the most successful team in the world where majority of players who won the biggest trophies are still here and it is extremely hard and somewhat unfair to sell them

To some extent, we are now paying a price of our own success.

Today we have amigos and a debate: whether they should play, stay or get sold.
The same will happen in 1-2 years with Messi.
He will decline and will be on a level of a current Busi or Suarez.
What then?
To bench/sack/sell the biggest legend in a history of a club or do=exactly the same what we are doing with the amigos currently?

That is a problem when you win TOO MUCH:
1. if you keep those players for too long=you will end as a current Barca or Galacticos in 2005
2. if you sell those players who win all the trophies=you will be kinda an asshole who stabbed those players in the back after they brought you 20 trophies and god knows how many Billions

Whatever you do, you are screwed.
It is what it is...

Good post and totally true. There's no good way.