Quique Setien

[MTL_Barca]

Not defending EV, but he definitely was a bigger name than QS and had achieved more

True but i mean he's still a nobody compared to the veterans, both as a player and as a coach. These guys won everything with Barca, some even with their NTs and are all used to compete on the highest level for years. Some titles in Greece won't impress them.

So if we go by that we'd have to get a coach that at least won the CL or had a Zidane like career as a player. But i'm not even convinced that's the main problem, i think it's the players. Even Pep wouldn't get them to run.

 

[Jakabor]

How about we just play without a coach seeing that the players do not listen anyway and want to run the show.

 

[Andrew M]

How about we just play without a coach seeing that the players do not listen anyway and want to run the show.

We pretty much got a taste of that in 2013.

 

[Andrew M]

True but i mean he's still a nobody compared to the veterans, both as a player and as a coach. These guys won everything with Barca, some even with their NTs and are all used to compete on the highest level for years. Some titles in Greece won't impress them.

So if we go by that we'd have to get a coach that at least won the CL or had a Zidane like career as a player. But i'm not even convinced that's the main problem, i think it's the players. Even Pep wouldn't get them to run.

A coach with respect would be able to make changes to the team like Pep did or Zidane with Madrid.

 

[vegitot]

A coach with respect would be able to make changes to the team like Pep did or Zidane with Madrid.

Not only players but also the board supports them.

 

[DonAK]

You probably need a manager with enough influence to make that kind of changes.

Which means someone like Pep or Klopp which is not happening, or someone like Xavi, who is someone Messi will respect and the other players cannot treat like a nobody.

Which is also not happening btw as he said yesterday or the day before that he'll manage Barca if he gets the complete freedom and authority over the sporting project and can make the changes he want.

 

[Andrew M]

You probably need a manager with enough influence to make that kind of changes.

Which means someone like Pep or Klopp which is not happening, or someone like Xavi, who is someone Messi will respect and the other players cannot treat like a nobody.

Which is also not happening btw as he said yesterday or the day before that he'll manage Barca if he gets the complete freedom and authority over the sporting project and can make the changes he want.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Xavi seems like the best choice but it might be preferred that he starts in 2021.

We never get coaches with an established name or 'outside ideas', so a former player who we know has great leadership qualities seems our best bet

 

[DonAK]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Xavi seems like the best choice but it might be preferred that he starts in 2021.

We never get coaches with an established name or 'outside ideas', so a former player who we know has great leadership qualities seems our best bet

Xavi was arguably the last *proper* leader/captain we had too. Who knows if Lucho had still been at Barca in 2015 had he not intervened...

 

[Horatio]

Xavi wont coach this group. Hes afraid his friendship with some players will suffer.

 

[DonAK]

Xavi wont coach this group. Hes afraid his friendship with some players will suffer.

He won't before 2021 anyway IMO, and even then he might have some conditions that most of the older players are sold before he officially takes over so the optics are good for him.

His comments about starting a new project and wanting complete freedom to shape the team how he wants in terms of players in/out seem to suggest he has at least some plans about how he want to start.

 

[MTL_Barca]

A coach with respect would be able to make changes to the team like Pep did or Zidane with Madrid.

Yeah, that's basically my view on this. So instead of Setien, Valverde it's more important what direction the board wants to take from here. With elections coming soon and their history of failed transfers i don't have high hopes for the current one though.

At this point everything will probably line up for 2021 anyway, so let's just hope transfers and next season aren't too terrible. Then a (hopefully) new board, most likely new coach and the veterans will finally hit ages where it's just too obvious they need to get replaced better sooner than later. By next summer Messi will be 34, Suarez 34, Pique 34, Busquets 33, Alba 32, Rakitic 33, Vidal 34...i mean this can't take that much longer right

 

[Andrew M]

Yeah, that's basically my view on this. So instead of Setien, Valverde it's more important what direction the board wants to take from here. With elections coming soon and their history of failed transfers i don't have high hopes for the current one though.

At this point everything will probably line up for 2021 anyway, so let's just hope transfers and next season aren't too terrible. Then a (hopefully) new board, most likely new coach and the veterans will finally hit ages where it's just too obvious they need to get replaced better sooner than later. By next summer Messi will be 34, Suarez 34, Pique 34, Busquets 33, Alba 32, Rakitic 33, Vidal 34...i mean this can't take that much longer right

Yeah, a coach with more status within the club will be able to make bold decisions.

I don't really understand the resistance from some people to approach Xavi. It's not like he doesn't want to be a coach. He must think he is very capable of succeeding. If he believes he can make a success of coaching Barca in the right conditions then I will support him over these midtable randoms

 

[BBZ8800]

So, I don't see where this is this magical structure and planning in other clubs. In fact, our success has mostly come from homegrown talent (Outside of R10). Shouldn't that suggest we have better structure? Do you see the flaw in that line of thinking?

I think that we are the biggest spenders in the world.
In Gasparts era and lately, we spent so much and gained nothing in return.

About Rm, they have 7 Cls in modern era without Messi.
Bayern 2 Cls without Messi. Yet, they have spent probably 5 times less than us.
Without Messi, Barca has only 1 true Cl title.

Some fans often say: Barca has such a successful model in the last 15 years.
Was it a model or Messi?

Imagine our future without Messi with the current level of horrible transfers.

I don't have motivation to check it, but I guess that we are the biggest spenders in the world on transfers from 2011 till today.

We had Messi, the most money spent and we won 1 Cl.

 

[BBZ8800]

I'm not high on Seiten anymore but I find that ironic these guys are more vocal about Seiten than they were for Valverde.

Sure Valverde won trophies but he was here for like 2 and a half seasons while Seiten was here for barely 6 months? and the same crap has been going on for ages now and they were defending Valverde but now they're opening criticizing Seiten for the same problems even though they have existed for a long time now.

Look, Messi was coached by 10 coaches in career.
He can recognize do you "have it" or "not".

The same as how when you read posts here, you can spot who "gets it" and who is a casual fan.

I was a fan of EV because my opinion was that our team is a total shit and that Ernie actually overachieved with this shitty team.

Now with Setien, imo, we are even worse than under EV.

Not to mention:
2017: No EV = Real champion
2018: EV = Barca champion
2019: EV = Barca champion
2020: No EV = Real champion
2021: No Ev = Real champion

I know, it is not that simple, but still...

Back to Setien and Sarabia, what if players figured out that they are frauds?
Imagine that you (at your job) get a new boss and you realize that you know 10 times more than him.
How to listen and follow his ideas?

Apparently both Messi and Rakitic didn't listen to Sarabia at all.
Setien wasn't even trying.
He id now more quiet than EV.

Messi worked under Rijkaard, Pep, Tito, Tata, Lucho, Ev, Setien.
It is quite possible that Setien is the weakest coach who has ever coached him.
Zero titles and big teams experience.
Tata at least had some success in South America.

You guys laughed at EV, but he at least won titles with Olympiacos.
And at Barca.
He knows how to play over 38 matches.

Can you say the same for Setien?

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ you assume Messi and the old guard loved EV as he was a 'top coach' and not because they ultimately had control over him.

Where are all these top clubs scrambling for EV?

Valverde did well to steady Barca when a lot were predicting Armageddon but he was not some great coach at Barca.