Quique Setien

[Messi983]

yeah, let's raise a statue for him at the camp nou. thanks for what? we just had our lowest season in 10 years. he didn't have one game were you could say he turned things around or you could see his influence.

fucked around with 3 at the back and other bullshit at the beginning and finished with 4-4-2, with vidal and roberto in midfield against bayern. was sitting on the bench looking like an idiot instead of doing subs or something. a disaster of a manager that has no redeeming qualities for a club like barcelona.

came from herding cows to the biggest managerial job in the world and now we have to feel sorry for him as if he was forced to do it. if this was real, ramos would have headbutted him a long time ago.

For some of you it's really everything black or white.

I didn't say to raise him a statue. He came in a difficult situation, failed to met expectations and lost his job as a consequence. Time to move on. No need to feely sorry about him but even less to be hostile against him and shit talk for years because he's far from the biggest culprit for our current situation.

 

[Devils]

It's pretty obvious he came in here waning to play tiki-taka football, quickly realized it was impossible with this team and then reverted to Valverde football which he was 10x worse than Valverde himself at implementing.

 

[Messigician]

It's pretty obvious he came in here waning to play tiki-taka football, quickly realized it was impossible with this team and then reverted to Valverde football which he was 10x worse than Valverde himself at implementing.

+1

 

[Richard.H]

It's pretty obvious he came in here waning to play tiki-taka football, quickly realized it was impossible with this team and then reverted to Valverde football which he was 10x worse than Valverde himself at implementing.

Very obvious, yet some users here can't see it. remember his first few matches? Everyone was pressing and playing one touch football. By minute 50, players were gasping for air. Probably after the first three matches, he realized he has gotten himself into a huge mess. It was too late by then, his hands were tied and he had to revert back to Valverde tactics. He was hopeless from the day he signed the contract. It's like Ned Stark living his village life in Winterfell to going to Kings Landing which is full of politics and backstabbing. Man had no clue what he was getting into.

 

[Porque]

Apparently Setien has just decided to make his 3rd substitution.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Apparently Setien has just decided to make his 3rd substitution.

This needs to become a meme.

 

[kollegah]

I remember the glory day after his first game as a Barca coach.

Cruffystas were like " madre mia, tiki taka is back" - golden.

 

[ItachiXXX]

The point is: if you watched with your own eyes Barcas for some time, you can give estimations of players skills.

Now, since BOTH you and me watched Xavi and Rakitic, can we both agree that if Xavi was 10/10 in creation, that Rakitic is let's say 6/10 or 7/10 at best?

If we both watched Busi, can we agree that he was 10/10 player in 2011 and that today he declined to 7/10 today compared to gis former self?

Or if we both watched Dani Alves, and if he was 9/10 or 10/10 in creation, can we agree that Semedo is miles behind him?
Let's say 3/10 or 4/10?

Now, these numbers are subjective but you get the point.
No one sane will say that Rakitic is as creative as Xavi or that Semedo is even close to Alves.

And then, I have done the same with 4 generations of players whom I have watched every week, the same as how you have watched Xavi and Rakitic.

Now, you can disagree with some of my estimations, whether a player xx had creativity 7 or 8, fine.

The point is that a difference in skills of players from 2006 and 2011 compared to today is so huge, that even if I have made several mistakes in estimations, the point still stands: meh defenders, average fullbacks, midfield which is clueless in attack, and meh attack bar Messi.
Add that a team is the oldest ever, the least motivated ever due to too many trophies won, we have zero leaders, La Masia dried etc.

If you have watched Rijkaard's and Pep's era, try to estimate our teams in several different areas and then tell me: how this isn't the weakest team since 2002/03 season?

Saying quality of players is a major problem at Barca has to be one of the most supid claims ever made here. We had our fair share of flops but the quality is high. Actually we have most problems a badly run elite club can have, except lack of individual quality. Individual quality is the main thing that prevented us from turning into Milan or United.

Trophyless season is almost inevitable (except CDR, but we will probably lose even there).

CL humiliation is almost inevitable.
Even against Napoli how things stand currently...

People hate what they don't understand. Be their hero, BBZ, be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it!

 

[vegitot]

People hate what they don't understand. Be their hero, BBZ, be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it!

People who thought Setien is Cruyff's successor, where are they now???

 

[ItachiXXX]

People who thought Setien is Cruyff's successor, where are they now???

They are busy hating Messi for not carrying their beloved master tactician bringer of beautiful football Setien. They tried so hard to push that its all Messi that won trophies for Valverde but now cant do it for Setien

 

[khaled_a_d]

People who thought Setien is Cruyff's successor, where are they now???

I don't have a problem with them now, as long as we don't get that type of posts fantasizing coaches who play such style.
Paco J?mez, Sampaoli, Setien, Sarri. All are coaches who people thought are very good and deserve a chance here.
May be Tuchel is the only one from those types that might be of any good, but his only real success is reaching CL finals beating Liepzig & Atlanta in on one legged game. His coaching yesterday was off anyway.

 

[serghei]

People hate what they don't understand. Be their hero, BBZ, be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it!

Lol, we don't lack individual quality. Individual quality from star players is why we kept winning titles with poor fitness levels and poor trainings all these years. What we lack is speed, fitness, professionalism, work rate, intensity. Talent and skill is why we kept winning titles while we were in bad shape, lacking all of those things.

People still don't understand what the problems are. The problem is we kept pampered talented legends for too long and allowed the team to get to a point where they don't run as much as they have to to stand a chance against the teams in Europe.

Even De Jong spelled it out:

"But they were much better than us. I don't think it's too much about talent, I think it's about putting in intensity and hard work and we need to change these things".

 

[khaled_a_d]

Lol, we don't lack individual quality. Individual quality from star players is why we kept winning titles with poor fitness levels

Those things are contradicting each other.
It isn't poor training that made our stars less fit, we started the season with 6 outfield starters who are 30+ years old.
Older successful teams like Juve and Milan back in the day were also like that. Every older team had been this way.
Sometimes you have older player with great fitness level, like Miller for example. But those are rare and I don't remember a team full of them.
Teams like Liverpool for example, how many 30+ players they had at start of the year? Bayern had bunch of them too (Muller, Boateng, Lewa) but still less and younger than Barca, with team that is under way more pressure (Bundesliga being less demanding league)

Barca has lacked individual quality for years, we had names but they aren't a quality individually.
The truth is, to be an elite quality players, you need to have very small limitations in addition to being able elite in other areas.
Players like Salah, Mane,TAA, VVD, Lewa, Alaba are like that.


With Barca? With Suarez he is so slow, with broken knee and bad low speed. He can't press anyone, he doesn't threat teams on the counter attack.
Messi? We have seen it zillion of times, he is a player who kills game plan by being a hybrid SS/AM. Lack of effort and speed kills our defense, midfield and slow offense.
Rakitic? He has been done for 2 years, he is a Seville level of player or a bench player who takes no more than 1K minutes per year. Same with Vidal, who is very limited talent wise and rely on effort, an effort he can't give regularly ffs
Busquets? Where I start? I remember when I talked about him being done in 17/18 season and people here said I blame our second best player, How I hate Barca DNA football if I think Busquets is a problem
He has been average since Lucho last year (and Lucho put huge emphasis on fitness) and we hid his limitation in 17/18 using Raki and 442 to support him. But we weren't to do it afterwards.

Pique, he is underrated, but he is slow and unless paired with athletic CB he is a problem.

Only one of the amigos that didn't have such glaring limits was Alba, and he was done after anfield.


You can't talk about individual quality when the whole team has huge limitations that need to be compensated, even if everyone of those has something to offer.

This is why 2017/2018 was the downfall of the team, the team plan was to get Verratti and build around Neymar/Verratti/Umtiti. 3 athletic players entering their prime, one in every line who can carry the load. It wasn't a bad plan tbh if it happened.
What has been done? We lose Neymar, we fail to get Verratti and Umtiti knee fails him. For next 3 years not a single new young signing succeed except Lenglet, who he himself lack athletic ability.

Hate EV as you want, but his teams never had a problem with intensity before joining us. Why it is only us who are like that?
Barca always had elite training group, that helped the careers of Messi and other players like Neymar. Suddenly all the blame on them because...? because super old team that can't run like a young one? Same what is happening with our medical team, people suddenly complain because of Dembele hamstring problems and Umtiti refusing to take their advice.

FDJ was coming from a super young team. Training intensity was never going to be same. Unless you want to have all the older players getting injured.

 

[serghei]

Those things are contradicting each other.
It isn't poor training that made our stars less fit, we started the season with 6 outfield starters who are 30+ years old.
Older successful teams like Juve and Milan back in the day were also like that. Every older team had been this way.
Sometimes you have older player with great fitness level, like Miller for example. But those are rare and I don't remember a team full of them.
Teams like Liverpool for example, how many 30+ players they had at start of the year? Bayern had bunch of them too (Muller, Boateng, Lewa) but still less and younger than Barca, with team that is under way more pressure (Bundesliga being less demanding league)

Barca has lacked individual quality for years, we had names but they aren't a quality individually.
The truth is, to be an elite quality players, you need to have very small limitations in addition to being able elite in other areas.
Players like Salah, Mane,TAA, VVD, Lewa, Alaba are like that.


With Barca? With Suarez he is so slow, with broken knee and bad low speed. He can't press anyone, he doesn't threat teams on the counter attack.
Messi? We have seen it zillion of times, he is a player who kills game plan by being a hybrid SS/AM. Lack of effort and speed kills our defense, midfield and slow offense.
Rakitic? He has been done for 2 years, he is a Seville level of player or a bench player who takes no more than 1K minutes per year. Same with Vidal, who is very limited talent wise and rely on effort, an effort he can't give regularly ffs
Busquets? Where I start? I remember when I talked about him being done in 17/18 season and people here said I blame our second best player, How I hate Barca DNA football if I think Busquets is a problem
He has been average since Lucho last year (and Lucho put huge emphasis on fitness) and we hid his limitation in 17/18 using Raki and 442 to support him. But we weren't to do it afterwards.

Pique, he is underrated, but he is slow and unless paired with athletic CB he is a problem.

Only one of the amigos that didn't have such glaring limits was Alba, and he was done after anfield.


You can't talk about individual quality when the whole team has huge limitations that need to be compensated, even if everyone of those has something to offer.

This is why 2017/2018 was the downfall of the team, the team plan was to get Verratti and build around Neymar/Verratti/Umtiti. 3 athletic players entering their prime, one in every line who can carry the load. It wasn't a bad plan tbh if it happened.
What has been done? We lose Neymar, we fail to get Verratti and Umtiti knee fails him. For next 3 years not a single new young signing succeed except Lenglet, who he himself lack athletic ability.

Hate EV as you want, but his teams never had a problem with intensity before joining us. Why it is only us who are like that?
Barca always had elite training group, that helped the careers of Messi and other players like Neymar. Suddenly all the blame on them because...? because super old team that can't run like a young one? Same what is happening with our medical team, people suddenly complain because of Dembele hamstring problems and Umtiti refusing to take their advice.

FDJ was coming from a super young team. Training intensity was never going to be same. Unless you want to have all the older players getting injured.

I do not believe skill and talent and working hard is the same thing. You can have super talented players and skilled players, that are lazy and unprofessional. Who moan when they have to train harder, who slack off during games. Part of it is old age, part of it is unprofessional attitude, commonly called laziness.

Such is our case. A team lacking individual quality can never beat Liverpool 3-0, or trash Madrid 5-1, or win titles. The problem is PHYSICAL imo. We have reached a point where we simply don't work enough on the field to compete.

Our problem is we have too many veteran players who are not as professional and as hardworking as it is needed to compete at this level. And despite this, they still played. The only way veteran players should be allowed to play is if they have the required physical level to do so. Ours don't.

The reason why these players have been hard to kick out in the team is their high individual quality in terms of technique and skill.

This is why the veterans have stayed around for this long. We think this high degree of talent and technical level can compensate for hard work, running, defending, and playing with intensity.

It simply can't. Having talent and skill can never replace hard work. This is why a player who scores that goal is finished for what are we trying to build.

 

[serghei]

Hate EV as you want, but his teams never had a problem with intensity before joining us. Why it is only us who are like that?
Barca always had elite training group, that helped the careers of Messi and other players like Neymar. Suddenly all the blame on them because...? because super old team that can't run like a young one? Same what is happening with our medical team, people suddenly complain because of Dembele hamstring problems and Umtiti refusing to take their advice.

FDJ was coming from a super young team. Training intensity was never going to be same. Unless you want to have all the older players getting injured.

Why?

Because he came at a team where the persons in charge are the same ones who have all the interest to keep the intensity low: the veterans. That is why. And he found almost no support in the board. So he gave the fight as lost without even attempting to change things.

He tailored the team to train at the pace of old, lazy players. Because those players had support from above. And guess what, the veterans loved it. Of course they fucking loved it. . He made a whole team cater to their slow pace.

I want the training intensity to be where it needs to be, and the ones who don't cut it, moved on. And a board + manager who makes no exceptions. That should have been the solution since the first historic humiliations vs PSG and Juventus, let alone Roma.