Rafinha Alcantara

[instinct]

I agree with everything you've said.

However, I never wanted Rafinha to play every match but we have to think about the future. What about Xavi? Will he be here next season? Iniesta's form is worrying to say the least. We're forced to give the likes of Rafinha (and Samper next season) a chance to prove themselves.

Since Rosell is in charge, no player from La Masia managed to become an essential part of the first team. Is it concidence or part of incredible mismanagement? Considering Eusebios ''achievements'' here it's probably the latter. Therefore, we're forced to spend ridiculous amounts of money on the transfer market. In 2016 we'll have the same problem again. People want to sign Pogba, Verratti or Koke. Everyone of them will cost at least 60m.
I wonder if this situation we're in could have been avoided in the last couple of years. It's surprising that a club like Barca which is famous for developing world-class players has to buy so many players for a huge amount of money.
Everyone here complained about Thiago not getting enough minutes which made him leave to a direct competitor. We bashed Tito and everyone for benching him all the time (I know the circumstances were different to now because we already won the league back then. However, the principle remains the same).
We could have avoided this situation by giving Thiago more playing time, simple. But we didn't and now we have to buy an expensive replacement for Xavi again (even in 2013 it was clear that we have to bring in a replacement for him in 2014/15).
In a few years, Iniesta will be in Xavi's position and he is already declining! We have potential (!) replacements for him: Rafinha and Denis Suarez.
Our current philosophy however doesn't allow us to trust them. In a few years, we'll look for an Iniesta replacement on the transfer market and another 50m will be gone.

I don't want to say that Rafinha IS Iniesta's successor but he is 21. He has big potential and a club like Barca who experienced it's most successful period in it's history because of La Masia products should consider involving youth players much more. We shouldn't let him play in a CL final nor should we let him play in every game but matches like yesterday are essential in a player's development and nobody can't deny that Rafinha did a very good job yesterday.

Players are not bigger than the club but our youth is the fundament of our future.

 

[linetty]

Lel this forum. After a MOTM performance you had to find another way to undermine Rafinha and you did - comparisions with Thaigo in full force.

He's been good in attack, managed to keep possession lol: yeah, but rafinha is shit because he doesn't have the composure to keep possession, never heard bigger nonsense), been great in defense (some crucial tackles as well) and on top of everything he's very entertaining with his samba skills.

What more could you ask from a midfielder?!

 

[Flavia]

The aftermath of the hit on his nose.

 

[BBZ8800]

Since Rosell is in charge, no player from La Masia managed to become an essential part of the first team. Is it concidence or part of incredible mismanagement?

I wonder if this situation we're in could have been avoided in the last couple of years. It's surprising that a club like Barca which is famous for developing world-class players has to buy so many players for a huge amount of money.

This has been discussed on some other topics.
Barca isn't that famous, and we were never THAT good in developing our youths as the myth says.

In fact, we were always just a regular/normal European team in developing youths until our famous generation with Messi, Pique, Busi, Pedro, Fabregas, Thiago.
In 10 years before that generation, we developed only Xavi, Puyol and Valdes. And players like Gabri, Oleguer, Motta.

So, it is hard to blame only the board.
Our golden generation is a one time thing, and it will probably repeat never again.
Developing one good player in 2-3 Seasons is a much more likely scenario.

So, we should forget about that "La Masia is golden myth."

About Rafinha, he should get more minutes. In Cup and 20-30 minutes in La Liga when we are winning 2:0 or 3:0.
But, also, if you are giving more and more minutes to a young player and he isn't performing good enough, you can't give him chances forever.

Look at Munir.
He started well, but what now? Should we give him 100 new chances and should the whole team suffer until he will maybe start to perform better?

And imagine now replies:
= "But we have to play Munir""

Why? Our team finally started to perform, should we now ruin the chemistry and momentum because of development of one player who maybe will and maybe won't turn into something, even if you give him 1000s of Minutes. (I am not talking only about Munir, but about all younger players)

 

[DinhoR10]

Rafinha should be given just enough time to allow him to continue to grow without hampering the team so that next year with Xavi being basically gone and iniesta one year older we will have a young quality midfielder at our disposal, and if Halilovic or Denis or Samper makes the jump next season give whichever one of them the same treatment as Rafinha is getting this year.

 

[instinct]

About Rafinha, he should get more minutes. In Cup and 20-30 minutes in La Liga when we are winning 2:0 or 3:0.
But, also, if you are giving more and more minutes to a young player and he isn't performing good enough, you can't give him chances forever.

Look at Munir.
He started well, but what now? Should we give him 100 new chances and should the whole team suffer until he will maybe start to perform better?

And imagine now replies:
= "But we have to play Munir""

Why? Our team finally started to perform, should we now ruin the chemistry and momentum because of development of one player who maybe will and maybe won't turn into something, even if you give him 1000s of Minutes. (I am not talking only about Munir, but about all younger players)

I agree about Munir but unlike him, Rafinha didn't perform badly in the minutes he got.

We shouldn't give minutes to players who don't deserve to get some. Munir was impressive during the pre-season and earned his spot in the Elche game and he scored a nice goal to show that Lucho was right with giving him minutes.
After he performed badly, he didn't get many minutes anymore and was rightfully sent back to the B-team.
Rafinha, however, had some quality games during this season and yesterday was another proof that he deserves to start more games/to get more minutes. At the end of the day, it's good for our team since there's competition for the midfield spots which we didn't have in the last couple of years.

Again, I do think that it's sometimes dangerous to trust young players in big games and I'm not in favour of doing this all the time but our model should be using more youth players who work hard in training and perform well in the games they play in because it's a sign for them to work hader and more importantely it's a sign and motivation for all the talented kids in our academy who are 14 years old and dream of becoming a professional footballer to improve and work hader because it pays off eventually.

 

[Kohe321]

What I loved about him yesterday, apart from the great stuff he did with the ball, was his extraordinary workrate. He had almost ran a distance of 12km (11,9 was it?) when he was subbed off, and that distance was covered in many sprints and bursts, not just a slow continous jog.

He was also very involved at the scoresheet - his shot that was saved and ended up at Neymars feet for the first goal, and his goal from Messis deflected header were both great. Great stuff from Rafinha, give him credit guys.

 

[BBZ8800]

Again, I do think that it's sometimes dangerous to trust young players in big games and I'm not in favour of doing this all the time but our model should be using more youth players who work hard in training and perform well in the games they play in because it's a sign for them to work hader and more importantely it's a sign and motivation for all the talented kids in our academy who are 14 years old and dream of becoming a professional footballer to improve and work hader because it pays off eventually.

I will start with a hard work.
Sergi Roberto probably works hard. What about him now?
He just isn't good enough for Barca.
Working hard is a good thing, but if you are a hard worker and not good enough for Barca, we can't ruin the first team because of young players who are hard-workers.

I agree about Munir but unlike him, Rafinha didn't perform badly in the minutes he got.

We shouldn't give minutes to players who don't deserve to get some. Munir was impressive during the pre-season and earned his spot in the Elche game and he scored a nice goal to show that Lucho was right with giving him minutes.
After he performed badly, he didn't get many minutes anymore and was rightfully sent back to the B-team.
Rafinha, however, had some quality games during this season and yesterday was another proof that he deserves to start more games/to get more minutes. At the end of the day, it's good for our team since there's competition for the midfield spots which we didn't have in the last couple of years.

I am not sure that Rafinha was much better than Munir in the first half of the Season.
Just go back 20-30 pages and read the opinions about him in the first part of the Season.

You know how people on this forum usually remember only the last few matches, and you are either a god, or a crap, based on a last few matches.
Rafinha is currently a god, based on a last few matches, so it is easy to forget that he was very poor and average in the first half of the Season.
He touched the ball 20 times or something like that, in the whole match at home against Celta and similar things.
(And NOT only because of Luch's tactics, but because he was horrible in that match and in that part of the Season)
He was scared, didn't fit in well in the beginning etc.

So, saying today that it was clear from the day 1 that he will be good or something isn't that easy.
Munir started well and he was weaker and weaker (and very unlucky) with each new match. (But he can still improve a lot, especially if he will be luckier with finishing).
Rafinha wasn't that good till the last 2-3 weeks.

Again, I can return to Sergi Roberto. He also improved lately.
Should we give him more chances also?
If yes, how much?
1. you need to play Rakitic, to get a chemistry of the starting 11
2. you need to play Rafinha to develop him
3. if you will play Sergi Roberto, you will "steal" some minutes from Rakitic, but from Rafinha also

So, you see, it is very tricky, and you can't give chances to everyone.
Also, when you do get a chance, you won't have an unlimited amount of chances, because always 3-4-5-xx players are asking for some minutes on the same position.

 

[linetty]

What I loved about him yesterday, apart from the great stuff he did with the ball, was his extraordinary workrate. He had almost ran a distance of 12km (11,9 was it?) when he was subbed off, and that distance was covered in many sprints and bursts, not just a slow continous jog.

He was also very involved at the scoresheet - his shot that was saved and ended up at Neymars feet for the first goal, and his goal from Messis deflected header were both great. Great stuff from Rafinha, give him credit guys.

His name ain't Isco though...

 

[instinct]

I will start with a hard work.
Sergi Roberto probably works hard. What about him now?
He just isn't good enough for Barca.
Working hard is a good thing, but if you are a hard worker and not good enough for Barca, we can't ruin the first team because of young players who are hard-workers.

Sergi is hard-working but is not good enough for Barca. A fair judgement.
What I don't understand is why you're using him as an example for several youth players who're only 15 years old. It's clear as day that not every La Masia player is the next Messi/Iniesta etc.
However, not every La Masia player is the next Sergi Roberto. We have some insane talents (I'm speaking of talent. I'm not comparing them to anyone or hype them) coming through nd IF (!) someone proves that he could become a great player for us in the future, we should help him developing. Simple as that.
I understand the majority of your points but you seem to be very critical towards the involvment of youth players in our first team.
What's your way to go then? Signing world-class players in this inflated market every summer? I'm very interested in reading your opinion of that.

Regarding Rafinha, I don't question the fact that he maybe had some bad moments in the first half of the season but unlike Sergi Roberto who only explodes vs the likes of Huesca and a weak Elche team he is showing signs of improvement. It's normal for a 20 year old to have some bad games. Which player doesn't have bad matches? What matters is the progress he makes and he is showing immense signs of improvement for weeks now and who cares if he is only playing well since the start of the new year when he progresses? Each game he becomes better is a decent achievement and we should honour that.

 

[SeloBarca]

I agree with you completly BBZ8800 and have said simliar things myself.
Rafinha should be given more chances since he looks quite promising.
But its a problem if we overcrowd our squad with youngsters.
Right now theres alot of youngsters that we could just aswell ofload, they just arent good enough for Barcelona.
Thinkking LaMasia will sprout of world class players season after season that could fit into the A-team even with "experiance" is naive. One in 2-3 seasons is more likely.
We have to bring in players from other clubs, just like everyone else, to stay in top.

 

[Kohe321]

His name ain't Isco though...

Yeah, I can't believe we didn't chase Isco more when we had the chance...

Anyway, while he's not at the level of Isco now, Rafinha is a very talented player from our own academy so I'm very hopeful for him. Isco has about one year on him in terms of development (and playing longer at the highest level), so let's wait and see where Rafinha is one year down the road after (hopefully) many more matches for the first team. He could grow a lot, and it will be interesting to see how much he can close the gap to the level Isco is playing at right now.

 

[SeloBarca]

Should get a playmaker to play alongside Rafinha at CM spot. IF hes the one to take over Iniestas spot in future.

 

[khaled_a_d]

This has been discussed on some other topics.
Barca isn't that famous, and we were never THAT good in developing our youths as the myth says.

In fact, we were always just a regular/normal European team in developing youths until our famous generation with Messi, Pique, Busi, Pedro, Fabregas, Thiago.
In 10 years before that generation, we developed only Xavi, Puyol and Valdes. And players like Gabri, Oleguer, Motta.

So, it is hard to blame only the board.
Our golden generation is a one time thing, and it will probably repeat never again.
Developing one good player in 2-3 Seasons is a much more likely scenario.

So, we should forget about that "La Masia is golden myth."

About Rafinha, he should get more minutes. In Cup and 20-30 minutes in La Liga when we are winning 2:0 or 3:0.
But, also, if you are giving more and more minutes to a young player and he isn't performing good enough, you can't give him chances forever.

Look at Munir.
He started well, but what now? Should we give him 100 new chances and should the whole team suffer until he will maybe start to perform better?

And imagine now replies:
= "But we have to play Munir""

Why? Our team finally started to perform, should we now ruin the chemistry and momentum because of development of one player who maybe will and maybe won't turn into something, even if you give him 1000s of Minutes. (I am not talking only about Munir, but about all younger players)

Rafinha is a totally different story than Munir IMO ,Munir is a prospect who is integrated gradually in 1st team football .he basically went from Juvenil A to 1st team
Rafinha on the other hand is a player who is proven on 1st team football at Liga level.forget about where he was playing in the youth
A player who was the Best young player in Liga last year while playing in a mid table team was brought to the team to play again with his coach .that might be inexperienced young player but he isn't a prospect ,he is a 1st team player
Rafinha earned that btw ,playing through Barca youth ranks while not being really hyped and always known as the "Thiago brother" and even when he was doing gr8 with Barca B fans kept questioning how good is he and where he fits and even many said S.Roberto is the better player (and Rafinha was far better player than him ) after that moved to Celta ,improved and looked like a really good player there

Rafinha need more minutes ,not for just for him but for the team actually
The fact is that we have a ban and we are stuck with this squad .Xavi is losing form .he puts some good performance on occasions but he can't be used regularly right now because of his age ,form and more importantly he doesn't fit the new direct model built by LE ,you put Xavi in the team and we play a totally different type of football .a club legend and everything but time is changing and at his age he can't learn to fit into new system
We have 5 players who can play in the CM/AM combo ,S.Roberto who I am not sure why he is in the squad and is obviously inferior to Rafinha .old Xavi ,Iniesta who is in 30's who can't again play too much or we are risking him getting injured and Rakitic with Rafinha of coarse
Rakitic and Iniesta are the starters ,but we are 1 injury to one of them from either dropping the current more direct /quicker game or playing Rafinha .
For me it is an easy choice ,kid is improving for sure and he is earning his minutes ,a minutes that if he doesn't get right now we might regret by the end of the year or next season

 

[DonAK]

Nah, Thiago trumps Rafa at taking on players. And I've watched the former since he was 17.

I honestly disagree. Thiago was good, but I think Rafa is better. Thiago might have been better in standing still and taking on a player and then playing a pass, but Rafa seem to have that ability to jinx pass 2-3 players easily which Thiago IMO wasn't that good at as his little bro. I guess we can agree to disagree though. Anyway, let's hope Rafinha continues to work hard and improve and can form a major part of our midfield in the future.