Rafinha Alcantara

BBZ8800

Senior Member
No he wasn't the best CM during Rijkaard days ,that goes for Deco by some margin .we even won CL with Xavin injured and Deco &MVB playing in midfield and they was great midfield pairing ,and being best midfielder b4 Rijkaard isn't saying much,we were crap
Xavi was good starter at Barca for so long b4 Pep that is true but he was never considered superstar until the 2008 Euro performance followed by Pep's tiki-taka

Xavi was my favorite player before Rijkaard and during Rijkaard.
I know that he broke knee ligamenst in December of our CL winning Season.

Deco was awesome player with brilliance moments, but he always played hot and cold games, even on his peak.
Not to mention that he always had at least 1-2 wtf/brainfarts moments during every match.

I haven't read Barca forum back then and I don't know what the fans or media thought about Xavi and how they rated him, but for me, he WAS always=Barcelona, the brain, the only guy in the world who can make Tiki Taka work perfectly. His footballing intelligence on and off the ball is just insane, especially when he was younger and when he was able to run more than today.

Deco was, at least in my eyes, more like Iniesta, more attacking player.
But again, deco had only 2-3 good Season in Barca, he got divorced and lost the motivation already after 2-3 good Seasons.

On the other hand, Xavi is a God already for 15 years.
For younger fans who haven't watched Xavi when he was 19-20 and similar, here is a nice video:

He was a GOD even with 19 years.
Look at his passes, vision, his calmness in this video.

Again, he was 19 years old back then.
Remember this part:
"First match of Xavi Hernandez with Barcelona."

Now compare his plays when he was 19 with our current players who are aged 18-21 and who are supposed to be a new Xavi, and you will realize why I am saying that it is highly unlikely that any of our current young players will be a new Xavi or Iniesta.
These guys were just awesome from the day 1. Especially young Xavi.

Even aged 19, he played like he already has 10 Seasons of Champions league behind him.
Extraordinary guy he was.
 
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SeloBarca

Senior Member
Agree with you BBZ. I think its partly becouse alot of people here became Barcafans around Pep era. Xavi was always great, much better then current youngsters. So was Iniesta.
Deco was very errorprone and more an AM then CM.
 

Andrew M

New member
Is this how it's going to be from now on?

You're not Xavi!

You're not Iniesta!

You're not Messi!

The next 10 years will be unpleasant.


And I think guys are overstating Xavi's importance under Rijkaard.
 

anguy

New member
He was a GOD even with 19 years.
Look at his passes, vision, his calmness in this video.

I remember Xavi playing when he was young too and he definitely wasn't a GOD. He was decent player, but he became great only when Rijkaard moved him forward to CM position. He was DM like Busquets before that and while he was good passer, I remember him being easily overwhelmed when defending.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
I remember Xavi playing when he was young too and he definitely wasn't a GOD. He was decent player, but he became great only when Rijkaard moved him forward to CM position. He was DM like Busquets before that and while he was good passer, I remember him being easily overwhelmed when defending.

This

And I think guys are overstating Xavi's importance under Rijkaard.

And This
 

Alarcón

New member
I admit I didn't watch Xavi or Barça back then as I was 4 years old when Xavi made his debut but, judging from that video he doesn't look like a "god", he looks like a talented and very intelligent player, very much like Samper now actually.
 

gatsu

New member
Is this how it's going to be from now on?

You're not Xavi!

You're not Iniesta!

You're not Messi!

The next 10 years will be unpleasant.


And I think guys are overstating Xavi's importance under Rijkaard.

Or maybe you're not a top european team material, Rafinha is not even a contender for the top 5 team in la liga.
 

Androutsos

Senior Member
I admit I didn't watch Xavi or Barça back then as I was 4 years old when Xavi made his debut but, judging from that video he doesn't look like a "god", he looks like a talented and very intelligent player, very much like Samper now actually.

Actually I was thinking the same thing about him looking like Samper.
 

ZenI

Professor Balthazar
Is this how it's going to be from now on?

You're not Xavi!

You're not Iniesta!

You're not Messi!

The next 10 years will be unpleasant.


And I think guys are overstating Xavi's importance under Rijkaard.

Sorry mate, but this is not at all how most of us think. Having so many players from Masia in one generation and being (by pretty much everybody) hailed as the best team to ever play was coincidence and luck and shitloads of talent. We might never (and we probably won't) ever see this again. But we are Barca are we're supposed to be a top 3 or maybe top 5 team playing beautiful, technical football. Sergio Roberto and probably Rafinha can't live up to those standards, never. We don't want a 'new Xavi' when he leaves, but we need some sort of holding midfielder even if he doesn't have to be cast in the same mould, but he sure as hell has to be world-freaking-class or have the potential to become one. We could have an 'Rafinha' and than talk 8 years later and say "ohhh, player X is not the new Rafinha". Why? Because there will be no 'Rafinha' since he's average and will probably leave after this season or stay as backup if he starts producing at least 30% (in his own mould) of what Xavi or Iniesta produced when they were his age.
 

Richard.H

Senior Member
The youngster (in my opinion) that seems to have a very bright future is Samper. Samper has impressed me every time he has played. The kid will surely overtake Busquets one day.


Rafinha is still very raw but I honestly don't see in him the spark that's needed to be a Barca player. I don't even think he's better than his brother.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
The youngster (in my opinion) that seems to have a very bright future is Samper. Samper has impressed me every time he has played. The kid will surely overtake Busquets one day

Samper looks like the only guy of all our youngsters like a real deal.
He is the only one who plays good from the first appearance, and he looks like he has everything needed (technically, tactically, mentally), just like a young Xavi/Iniesta/Puyol.

All of our other players (even Deulofeu and Munir) struggle in one way or another.
They also have a chance to turn into something, but Samper's transition from youth ranks into senior fooball just seem more natural/easier/better from the day 1.
 

suckabov

Lemon curry?
What is this obsession with players not being "Barça quality" after having played only a handful of games here anyway? I can understand it when talking about S. Roberto and I admit Rafinha hasn't been great but I just don't get the standards or expectations behind this idea. We became so great in 2008-11 not simply because we had "coincidence and luck and shitloads of talents" (ZenI) or exclusively amazing players in ALL positions - even though a "generation" of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc is as exceptional as it gets - but to a large part because we managed to find a system that brought the best out of them, emphasised the strengths in our player material, hid certain weaknesses and brought them all together in a well-functioning unit. Desperately trying to fit the players we have or want to get into a certain shape when the shape itself is not even brilliant and quickly discarding them when they don't immediately perform like a mirror 2008-11 player is not really a strategy that I think is true to the Barça ideal. Of course the players need to be of a certain quality in order for us to challenge on all fronts, but the player material we have or our squad isn't even the main problem atm (even though some positions will prove to be problematic in the future, RB most notably). And since apparently neither Rakitic, Rafinha, Mathieu etc are Barça quality I wonder what a Barça quality XI would look like, probably a lot like the galácticos.

That's not to say Rafinha has not been disappointing but to give up on him after a few games & some injuries, to discard his performances last season because "midtable club" and because he doesn't perform like a new Xavi is senseless. And for the record, I really don't recall Xavi being a "God" in the years around 2000. The only Barça player I recall who was absolutely PRODIGIOUS from the start is Messi.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
That's not to say Rafinha has not been disappointing but to give up on him after a few games & some injuries, to discard his performances last season because "midtable club" and because he doesn't perform like a new Xavi is senseless. And for the record, I really don't recall Xavi being a "God" in the years around 2000. The only Barça player I recall who was absolutely PRODIGIOUS from the start is Messi.

Xavi wasn't a God, ok.
But people are just talking about his years 1999-2007 like he was something like Keita or Pedro.

Look against whom 20 year old Xavi had to compete:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999–2000_FC_Barcelona_season
-- I have even seen some replies in other topics that "it was easier back then for a young player", lol
-- people will give any excuse to defend the current youngsters and to continue the hype about them
-- and about our real legends, "everything" was easier and different back then

-- anyway, 20 year old Xavi had to win a midfield place against:
-- against 29 years old Pep Guardiola, Barca's legend, and he was still on his prime
-- against 30 years old Luis Enrique (lol). Awesome Barca and Real Madrid midfielder
-- 30 year old extremely versatile Cocu
-- 30 year old extremely experienced Ronald De Boer
-- we could also add versatile players like Luis Figo, Zenden and Litmanen here

-- Cocu played 53+55 matches in 2000 and 2001
-- Ronny De Boer played 37 matches in 2000, and was sold
-- Guardiola played 25 and 36 matches in 2000 and 2001
-- Luis Enrique played 33 and 41 matches in 2000 and 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavi
-- young Xavi played 38 and 36 matches in 99/00 and 00/01, when he was aged 19, 20 and 21
= 74 matches
-- so, out of all our experienced and expensive midfielders, only Cocu played more matches
-- Xavi played more matches than Guardiola and Ronald De Boer, and the same number (74) as Lucho, our captain

-- today, current Xavi and Iniesta are something like Guardiola and Luis Enrique from those days
-- Rakitic is something like Ronny De Boer
-- can you imagine Rafinha or even Samper playing 40-ish matches per Season?

I know, people will have 1000s of excuses again:
-- it was easier in those days for a youngster
-- but if you look at our team from 2000, there weren't any youngsters in our team
-- slightly older (22-23 years old) Puyol played 37+24 matches and that's it
-- other La Masia products didn't play too much
-- only a winger Simao Sabrosa played, but he was bought as a future world-superstar. In those days, press, media and fans believed that he is the new Luis Figo, and that it is worth to play him, no matter how poorly he performed
-- but after 2-3 Seasons, people realized that he won't be a new Luis Figo (lol at the stupid hype again)

-- also, people will say that we were weak in those days, lol, even though the current team is equally as poor/bad as 2000s team (We were champions in 97-98 and 98-99 with the same players, and we had Van Gaal as a coach) and we have very decent chances to repeat 3-4-5 Seasons without major trophies with the current board, coach and a set of players

-- also, one interesting thing is that our coaches were:
-- Van Gaal 97-2000
-- Serra Ferrer 00-01
-- Rexach 01-02
-- Van Gaal 02-03
-- Antic 03
-- Rijkaard 03-08
-- Guardiola 08-12 etc
= and the thing is THAT EVERY SINGLE ONE of them played Xavi in the staring 11

For example, people are saying today: this coach is stupid, he doesn't play Deulofeu, Barta or XX player.
-- but on the other hand, no matter how good or bad our coaches were, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them played Xavi. Always.
-- so, some coaches hate Deulo or Bartra
-- but on the other hand, ALL of our coaches "loved" Xavi
-- a strange coincidence, or he was just a much bigger talent/better player from the day 1 than Deulo or Bartra?

People are saying that young Xavi was nothing special (even though he played more matches aged 21 than 30 yrs old Guardiola and Luis Enrique), and on the other hand people believe in Rafinha who touches the ball 25 times at home against Celta, or in Deulo's awesome skills when he scores one La Liga goal in 4 Months in Sevilla.

Everything what current youngsters do is good and hyped till death.
And true legends, like Xavi:
-- were nothing special till Pep (lol)
-- he was poor at Dmc
-- it was easier back then, our team was a crap
-- it was easier for a young player in general, the philosophy was different (but why all other young players turned out to be a crap or average, like Gabri, Saviola, Simao, Rochemback etc?). Xavi and Puyol were the only players from that 5 years era who turned into a starting 11 material. If those days were that easy for youngsters, then we would have much more starters from that era, isn't it?

People are extremely biased towards our current youngsters and are believing a hype too much.
As others have already said, we were extremely lucky with Xavi, Iniesta, Busi and Messi from our La Masia.
Something like that will probably never repeat. And it surely won't repeat today with "gems" like Deulo, Halilovic, Rafinha, Bartra and similar.

It is not like these guys are a total crap. But it is very questionable whether they are of Barca's quality.
And still, even if some of them are of Barca's quality, it is still quite easy to say that none of them will ever be nowhere near Xavi's level.

Even though Xavi was "nothing special" before Pep, as some say :rolleyes:
 
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anguy

New member
-- anyway, 20 year old Xavi had to win a midfield place against:
-- against 29 years old Pep Guardiola, Barca's legend, and he was still on his prime
-- against 30 years old Luis Enrique (lol). Awesome Barca and Real Madrid midfielder
-- 30 year old extremely versatile Cocu
-- 30 year old extremely experienced Ronald De Boer
-- we could also add versatile players like Luis Figo, Zenden and Litmanen here

He never directly competed against any those guys, except Guardiola. Like I said Xavi was DM at the beginning of his career. All those guys except Guardiola were either pure midfielders or offensive midfielders. There's no way Enrique or De Boer would be able to play DM. And Guardiola was at the end of his career and after he went out of Barca he was forced to end his career, because nobody wanted him. The fact is Xavi never had real competition at DM position during his first years.

And while he was good (not great player) during those years, I believe one of the reasons why he played so much, was because he was home grown player and Catalan. For some people who started to follow Barca later it might seem strange, but Barcelona was pretty much a "mercenary club" back then. Van Gaal practically wiped out "old guard" when he was appointed a coach and brought all those Ajax players with him, so we had just one other significant homegrown player - Puyol. Club simply needed someone homegrown on pitch and Xavi was the best of all options. (Puyol was almost sold by LVG who preferred Reiziger).
 
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