Real Madrid (old thread)

[Gnegneri]

its totaly wrong.

Hey man, still around here I see. What do you think of The Benz so far? Is this what you expected?

 

[IrvDizzle]

Ok i see where you are going wrong here..
this is totally different than Perez first project..totally i don't even call them galacticos this time around..

how can you compare a midfield of Beckham-Zidane-Figo-Solari-Guti and an attacking line up of Ronaldo-Raul-Moro-Owen with M Diarra-Xabi Alonso-Kaka-Granero-Guti-CR-Lass
and a forward line of Raul-Higuain-Ruud-Benzema ? a defense line of Pavon-Helguera-Salgado-Carlos-Raul bravo with a defensive line up of Ramos-Pepe-Albiol-Marcelo-Arbeloa-Metzelder ?

if you can't see the big difference here do yourself a favor and try to make a formation of the first one and let me know if you manage to do that .. hell i'll throw you gravesen on top .. and with some extra free time (a minute or so ) try to do the second one and see if you can pull it with ease or not .

Pellegerini an amateur ? based on what ? he coached River Plate successfully before Villarreal a club with similar amount of demand and pressure and a hated rivalry with Boca similar to what we have with Barca.
If Amateurs aren't successful Pep,Mourinho & Capello would have failed ..Mourinho had zero big players experience before Chelsea,Pep in his first year as a first team coach & Capello took over from one of Milan most successful manager (Sacchi ) and a 2 back to back CL trophy winner to continue domination with Milan in the early 90's .

And you simply don't go from Wenger to Mourinho .. u just don't , the closest thing to Wenger was Pellegerini in terms of everything ..
the choice of Wenger as a first option tells you this management was looking for the Beautiful game not trophies otherwise Mourinho-Capelloesque managers would be first choice.
when you go for Wenger or Pellegerini you are not looking for INSTANT trophies considering the two men record in trophies is appalling don't you think ?

success or failure is a bit too mature now for sure there is mistakes like any manager (including Capello insisting on playing Emerson or Benching Becks ) but he has a buffer period of 6 month at least .
Valdano will run this club well and i don't have doubts about his ability or experience

I don't think anyone want to get rid of the current squad "star" players par Raul who is greatly under pressure from everyone since Seville game especially that his goal scoring ratio this year is crap


I do think he has full support from Valdano otherwise he wouldn't bench Kaka-CR or Benzema .. this hasn't happened in the first era at all

anyhow Roberto Carlos may join Real in January for free and play until June

k ... there is no difference between this version of the Galacticos and the one that bombed spectacularly, and there are two points to prove this:

1. If this was about winning, RMadrid would have bought Villa. For them to say that Villa's price was too high when they shelled out more than 150m Euros on Cristiano and Kaka is illogical. It was every Cule's worst nightmare that Villa would be taken to Madrid. You made it clear that Villa had agreed to personal terms with Madrid. So what stopped RMadrid from getting the one piece that everyone would have agreed would have made the rest of the world truly afraid of your team? You made it clear that RMadrid would not see the same type of sales (re: merchandise) with Villa as they would with CR and Kaka. So they didn't shell out money on the best striker in La Liga, and probably the world because merchandise was more important than winning. That reeks of Galacticos. Benzema over Villa? You must be joking.

2. When FCB dropped 6 in the Bernabeu the prime cause was your defense being unable to do anything to stop our team. So who did RMadrid buy? Three supposed Aces. Alonso, Arbelola, Albiol. What did they do against Sevilla on the weekend? With Mahamadou and Xabi in front of Albiol and co ... what did they do? If not for Iker, how many do Sevilla score? You love to make fun of FCB for buying Caceres and Henrique. What about Lass, Xabi, and Albiol? Metzelder? Pepe? Marcelo? Who exactly is that frightening up in the Camp Nou? Adam was practically salivating over the thought of Leo going up against Marcelo. You'd think, that if RMadrid had all of that money to spend, you would have seen a complete overhaul of the defense. Putting Xabi Alonso and getting Mahamadou back from injury doesn't change the fact that Pepe and Marcelo suck. As much as Pep didn't get what he wanted in terms of another midfielder, he got the CB he wanted in CNote and a RB in Maxwell.

add it all up, and Madrid's primary weaknesses were not addressed. Sevilla proved it. The opportunity to get the best striker in La Liga was not taken because he wouldn't have sold enough jerseys. And you have a coach that has never won a title with a team that was not already a champion (I proved it on the old forum). Also, you don't shell out almost 300m Euros on players and not expect instant results. Amateur coaches succeeding are the exception to the rule, which is why so many people thought that Pep was not ready to coach the first team (sorry Pep) and why Leonardo in AC Milano is going so terribly. Roy Keane at Sunderland. Luxembergo in RMadrid. Koeman at Valencia. I know you're probably going to rip my post apart, but I had to say (type) it. There is no footballing plan here. I just don't see it. You yourself predict that RMadrid will win #10 next May. That would qualify as an instant result, no? Sorry bro, I love your wit and your intelligence, but I just don't see it here. You HAVE to sign Mourinho. Managers manage egos along with the play on the pitch. You cannot have a manager in this type of dressing room with these type of expectations who doesn't command the respect of the players. At least Wenger has a pretty decent track record from 1997-2006. Maybe Perez didn't go after Mourinho because Mourinho would have gotten more credit for any success than Perez would have? Not enough room in Madrid for both their egos? Maybe Mourinho would have done things his way and sent Raul to oblivion where he clearly belongs? It doesn't add up, Gio. Make me believe. Make me believe that Perez will be hoisting #10 while Raul and Pelligrini smirk in the background. I WANT TO BELIEVE (seriously, I really do, I've been dying to ask you these questions since August).

 

[Cule Angles]

Superb post Irv.

 

[yusuf]

hear hear irv,

 

[Gnegneri]

But they did buy Alonso for a large sum of money. He ain't gonna sell shirts. He has to do something else (I think he, together with Kaka, was the most feared signing, no? The one that would make it click together) than point to the name on his back. Benzema is a Frenchie and if I'm not wrong they signed him after ribery was sort of impossible to buy from Bayern. Perez wanted stars, check. Valdano wanted Pellegrini (as beast pointed out on the previous page), check. Zidane just wanted a Frenchie, check. From a Madrid point of view, this sounds logical to me, everyone got something. Of course everyone on this board would have taken Villa but we are not in the position/don't have the influence of Zizou. So in my opinion, it stinks like Perez but it doesn't necessarily have to point to the extreme Galacticos you're referring to. It's a mix.

 

[Metaphysical]

lol, I totally had overlooked the fact that they chose not to sign the best striker in the world because he wouldn't sell enough shirts. that's just tragic beyond description, really. good shout, irv.

xabi and CR are their deadliest signings. kaka can go suck a priest.

CR is guaranteed goals (9 in 7, ffs) and whatever you say about dodgy keepers and stupid defending - CR punishes dodgy keepers and stupid defending. he is the best flat-track bully in the world. by a distance. and he is perfect for real's smash-and-grab style as he has proven by his start to the season.

xabi meanwhile is the guy that's gonna get the ball down and play it to these superstars. he's gonna provide the direct pass that is gonna find kaka and CR in space and allow them to destroy the universe.

except he's playing like a pussy. which is BIZARRE. it could be that all that time england has given him some version of torres syndrome, which would make it a hilarious and tragic waste of €30m.

in fact the majority of madrid's disjointed nature is because xabi is playing like a pussy. he's not doing what he was brought to do, and lass is a hysterically overrated DM so the ball isn't even being won back until it reaches the back-line, but yeah, basically the possession gameplan is being shat on because of xabi's poor form. the fact that lass has sucked has sorta hidden xabi's poor form up to now because the ball has taken so long to get back to him. but against sevilla djila was winning it with consummate ease and giving it to him and all he could do was fuck it up again and again and again and again. this didn't so much highlight the problem as shine a big fucking spotlight on it.

not that they should be playing a possession game anyway. their three best attacking threats (CR, kaka and higuain) are nearly unstoppable in open space. it's to real's benefit to play as a counter-attacking team where possible. but again xabi is crucial to this (early quick pass to release the forwards) and he's just not performed.

 

[BarçAFan10]

^very true^

kaka can go suck a priest.

 

[Nándor]

with regards to benzema over david villa...how much of a choice is it, when you have struck a deal with valencia, only to see it being broken by llorente (who broke his word), followed by valencias u-turn decision to take david villa off the market and keep him!!!???

as you know, valencia REFUSED to sell david villa in the end. or at least you should know, since barca tried it themselfs before getting the nose. so, one could also ask cules: THE NOSE OVER DAVID VILLA??? gotta be kidding

 

[Beast]

k ... there is no difference between this version of the Galacticos and the one that bombed spectacularly, and there are two points to prove this:

1. If this was about winning, RMadrid would have bought Villa. For them to say that Villa's price was too high when they shelled out more than 150m Euros on Cristiano and Kaka is illogical. It was every Cule's worst nightmare that Villa would be taken to Madrid. You made it clear that Villa had agreed to personal terms with Madrid. So what stopped RMadrid from getting the one piece that everyone would have agreed would have made the rest of the world truly afraid of your team? You made it clear that RMadrid would not see the same type of sales (re: merchandise) with Villa as they would with CR and Kaka. So they didn't shell out money on the best striker in La Liga, and probably the world because merchandise was more important than winning. That reeks of Galacticos. Benzema over Villa? You must be joking.

And where in the world did anyone say Villa was discarded because he won't sell T-shirts ? Villa problem was the evaluation of Valencia which kept going up every minute not because he don't sell shirts , Real offer was good but demanding 42 Million for a strikers who didn't win any sort of global trophy was too much for our management an over evaluation something you personally as Barcelona encountered and decided to pay more for Ibra .. the difference between Benzema & Villa is price & age .. they wanted a speedy striker to fit the new scheme and Villa price was too much for Real and afterwards for Barca ,the merchandise part is an effort from your side in the debate especially that Benzema don't sell anything as well , right ? lets stick to facts
Anyhow It's not a problem for Real in scoring in case you didn't notice , the department is doing quite well

2. When FCB dropped 6 in the Bernabeu the prime cause was your defense being unable to do anything to stop our team. So who did RMadrid buy? Three supposed Aces. Alonso, Arbelola, Albiol. What did they do against Sevilla on the weekend? With Mahamadou and Xabi in front of Albiol and co ... what did they do? If not for Iker, how many do Sevilla score? You love to make fun of FCB for buying Caceres and Henrique. What about Lass, Xabi, and Albiol? Metzelder? Pepe? Marcelo? Who exactly is that frightening up in the Camp Nou? Adam was practically salivating over the thought of Leo going up against Marcelo. You'd think, that if RMadrid had all of that money to spend, you would have seen a complete overhaul of the defense. Putting Xabi Alonso and getting Mahamadou back from injury doesn't change the fact that Pepe and Marcelo suck. As much as Pep didn't get what he wanted in terms of another midfielder, he got the CB he wanted in CNote and a RB in Maxwell.

You wouldn't do a think if you played Seville that same day especially after your nice game vs Almeria.
if getting beaten away from the third place team this year & last year is a point to prove anything you my friend have a lot to learn about football . lets see what you can do if Messi for example (to counter CR ) is injured and Seville is in similar form
Marcelo had a bad game, maybe (and that's a maybe ) if Arbeloa was fit and not injured he could have done a much better job considering his strength is in the defense
if you don't see that Real has indeed invested a lot in the defense & defensive minded player (Arbeloa,Albiol & Xabi ) which makes 50 % of the new players bought you need to wear glasses and to counter your "Proved" point Real didn't buy any defender in the old Galacticos except after 5 years .. 5 good years

It's quite funny that you say Pepe suck when the majority (if not all ) the Cule's has indeed put Pepe beside Pique in La liga best 11 vs EPL best 11 topic

hmmmm
Pepe was good that day so was Albiol Irv and please losing to Seville (excellent form with back to back wins after their first day defeat ) in Andalusia by 2-1 is nothing go & read Cruyff words or cule's words in the game thread if you think i'm biased or seeing it with a Madrid glasses

add it all up, and Madrid's primary weaknesses were not addressed. Sevilla proved it. The opportunity to get the best striker in La Liga was not taken because he wouldn't have sold enough jerseys. And you have a coach that has never won a title with a team that was not already a champion (I proved it on the old forum). Also, you don't shell out almost 300m Euros on players and not expect instant results. Amateur coaches succeeding are the exception to the rule, which is why so many people thought that Pep was not ready to coach the first team (sorry Pep) and why Leonardo in AC Milano is going so terribly. Roy Keane at Sunderland. Luxembergo in RMadrid. Koeman at Valencia. I know you're probably going to rip my post apart, but I had to say (type) it. There is no footballing plan here. I just don't see it. You yourself predict that RMadrid will win #10 next May. That would qualify as an instant result, no? Sorry bro, I love your wit and your intelligence, but I just don't see it here. You HAVE to sign Mourinho. Managers manage egos along with the play on the pitch. You cannot have a manager in this type of dressing room with these type of expectations who doesn't command the respect of the players. At least Wenger has a pretty decent track record from 1997-2006. Maybe Perez didn't go after Mourinho because Mourinho would have gotten more credit for any success than Perez would have? Not enough room in Madrid for both their egos? Maybe Mourinho would have done things his way and sent Raul to oblivion where he clearly belongs? It doesn't add up, Gio. Make me believe. Make me believe that Perez will be hoisting #10 while Raul and Pelligrini smirk in the background. I WANT TO BELIEVE (seriously, I really do, I've been dying to ask you these questions since August).

If you judge Pellegrini by trophies only you should say Wenger is a crap manager since it's been 5 years since he won anything that's a lot in football terms for a big team not even a tin cup
You want to judge Pellegrini fine ,do you know where is Villarreal ? it's a small village with 48000 inhabitants , do you know they had no history whatsoever and their first ever first division experience was in 98 and they ended up relegated ?
try taking a team with 2 years experience in the liga and do what Manu did with almost very little budget and take them to the final 4 in the CL , 2nd and third place in the liga

try to win a trophy with Villarreal or lets see if Mourinho can pull it up or even put them in 3rd place (won't say second ) we can all see how Valverde ( a very good manager ) is doing with the squad he has after Manu left.
.. funny you say Manu didn't win a trophy with a team that hasn't won a trophy before do you know where that put him ? in the same bracket as Pep,Mourinho,Capello,Lippi,Wenger,SAF and every single big manager in the world Chelsea did win trophies before Mourinho (and even a European cup ) so did Inter so did Porto when he coached União de Leiria (which won nothing before like Villarreal ) he ended up 7th

The football plan as a 4-2-2-2 is there , the coordination is not there yet and some players are not adapting/playing well in it YET as Meta pointed out (please see my reply to Meta ). if you want a team to play to the maximum with a new coach , new formation and a new half team starters in a month of official games it's a dream come true sadly unless we are online playing PES against each other it doesn't happen in the real world Irv.

I don't want you to believe our differences is what makes us special and we debate on the forum to exchange point of views and see what others see in our teams , sometimes an outsider COULD have a much better indepth look than our own eyes which is always blinded by our passion for our teams .

But they did buy Alonso for a large sum of money. He ain't gonna sell shirts. He has to do something else (I think he, together with Kaka, was the most feared signing, no? The one that would make it click together) than point to the name on his back. Benzema is a Frenchie and if I'm not wrong they signed him after ribery was sort of impossible to buy from Bayern. Perez wanted stars, check. Valdano wanted Pellegrini (as beast pointed out on the previous page), check. Zidane just wanted a Frenchie, check. From a Madrid point of view, this sounds logical to me, everyone got something. Of course everyone on this board would have taken Villa but we are not in the position/don't have the influence of Zizou. So in my opinion, it stinks like Perez but it doesn't necessarily have to point to the extreme Galacticos you're referring to. It's a mix.

Benzema was before Ribery .. he wasn't the alternative for him , Benzema don't like Zidane that much and he keep saying Zidane didn't talk to me or had anything to do with my signing
Zidane had one input which was Ribery .. i think he also warned about Benzema (judging from Benzema reactions when someone ask him if Zidane played a role in his signing ) .

lol, I totally had overlooked the fact that they chose not to sign the best striker in the world because he wouldn't sell enough shirts. that's just tragic beyond description, really. good shout, irv.

xabi and CR are their deadliest signings. kaka can go suck a priest.

CR is guaranteed goals (9 in 7, ffs) and whatever you say about dodgy keepers and stupid defending - CR punishes dodgy keepers and stupid defending. he is the best flat-track bully in the world. by a distance. and he is perfect for real's smash-and-grab style as he has proven by his start to the season.

xabi meanwhile is the guy that's gonna get the ball down and play it to these superstars. he's gonna provide the direct pass that is gonna find kaka and CR in space and allow them to destroy the universe.

except he's playing like a pussy. which is BIZARRE. it could be that all that time england has given him some version of torres syndrome, which would make it a hilarious and tragic waste of €30m.

in fact the majority of madrid's disjointed nature is because xabi is playing like a pussy. he's not doing what he was brought to do, and lass is a hysterically overrated DM so the ball isn't even being won back until it reaches the back-line, but yeah, basically the possession gameplan is being shat on because of xabi's poor form. the fact that lass has sucked has sorta hidden xabi's poor form up to now because the ball has taken so long to get back to him. but against sevilla djila was winning it with consummate ease and giving it to him and all he could do was fuck it up again and again and again and again. this didn't so much highlight the problem as shine a big fucking spotlight on it.

not that they should be playing a possession game anyway. their three best attacking threats (CR, kaka and higuain) are nearly unstoppable in open space. it's to real's benefit to play as a counter-attacking team where possible. but again xabi is crucial to this (early quick pass to release the forwards) and he's just not performed.

agree with most of what you said here Meta especially Xabi bizarre form , Momo Diarra return and lack of CR goals last game has exposed Xabi poor game so far .
But i think the idea was to keep possession and allow the likes of Marcelo to bomb forward and never look back (defend )
the failure in this plan was the DM department.
on paper Xabi & Diarra should preform the first line of defense allowing Marcelo - Ramos to go up front and offer the missing width to make the team look like this
-------------Pepe------------Albiol------------
-----------Diarra-----------------Xabi----------
Ramos-------Kaka---------------CR--------Marcelo
---------------Higuain-------Benzema -----------

the problem is so far the 2 DM's (par Lass in the first 2 games ) and Momo Diarra in the last game hasn't preformed so it was a quick smash and grab .

in the Seville game you could see Diarra covering Ramos area which he did superbly while Xabi exposed Marcelo time and time again and he fucked up in his passing more than once.
I know everyone pointed at Marcelo but his role was to provide width upfront and without back up from Xabi Navas murdered him cause he is a talented and faster

Diarra performance exposed the DM's big time and i think it was clear when we were overrun after he went out

 

[Nándor]

in addition to me prior post, with regards to the "it's been all about selling shirts" issue...yeah, i guess real is still profiting from the zillions that were milked from players like pablo garcia, gravesen & diogo!!! not to meantion, that sergio ramos was only bought because he garanteed loads of cash coming in, being a golden goose already for sevilla back then!!! in deed, ALL about the money and merchandise

 

[Gnegneri]

so, one could also ask cules: THE NOSE OVER DAVID VILLA??? gotta be kidding

Ja, a lot of us (except the swedes) still would have picked Villa. But as you said yourself: he wasn't buyable so the ultimate question is: Benzema over Zlatan?

Benzema was before Ribery .. he wasn't the alternative for him , Benzema don't like Zidane that much and he keep saying Zidane didn't talk to me or had anything to do with my signing
Zidane had one input which was Ribery .. i think he also warned about Benzema (judging from Benzema reactions when someone ask him if Zidane played a role in his signing ) .

Ah ok, I didn't mean alternative but just a Frenchie to keep Zidane happy. But if he isn't really happy with it as you said than you can discard my post.

 

[Beast]

The answer for the ultimate question is 35 Million Euro difference

 

[Nándor]

Ja, a lot of us (except the swedes) still would have picked Villa. But as you said yourself: he wasn't buyable so the ultimate question is: Benzema over Zlatan?

from a real madrid point of view and in an ideal world it would be benzema over ibra, with benzema being sold next summer and replaced by negredo. while david villa replaces the departures of ruud & raul thus having a starting frontline attack of negredo---david villa, with higuain as backup

likelyness??? below 5% IMO

 

[Gnegneri]

The answer for the ultimate question is 35 Million Euro difference

And someone doing rather well for his team so far.

from a real madrid point of view and in an ideal world it would be benzema over ibra, with benzema being sold next summer and replaced by negredo. while david villa replaces the departures of ruud & raul thus having a starting frontline attack of negredo---david villa, with higuain as backup

likelyness??? below 5% IMO

 

[Evil]

with regards to benzema over david villa...how much of a choice is it, when you have struck a deal with valencia, only to see it being broken by llorente (who broke his word), followed by valencias u-turn decision to take david villa off the market and keep him!!!???

as you know, valencia REFUSED to sell david villa in the end. or at least you should know, since barca tried it themselfs before getting the nose. so, one could also ask cules: THE NOSE OVER DAVID VILLA??? gotta be kidding

Valencia we're unwilling to sell, we did initially want to take Villa over Zlatan, but still Zlatan over Villa sounds softer than Benzema over Villa. Plus the deal allowed us to offload the unsettled Eto'o, so it was an all-round good deal for us.

Your comparing a 27 year old experienced striker in Zlatan who has a bright history, to the likes of a 20 year old player only proved 2 or 3 seasons in a relatively low league compared to the Liga, Seire A, or the EPL.