Sergi Roberto

BBZ8800

Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

Most of these arguments you're debunking are said verbatim by the pro-Arda Turan crowd, minus the "He's young" part.

Instead of Arda vs Roberto/Rafinha, we could add a 3rd option:
1. Arda is not good enough to be a starter here, even though he looked as a good signing based on his Atletico's career
2. Roberto/Rafinha are also not good enough to be starters, and probably won't ever be
3. let's look for some option 3, either:
a) world class players like Pogba, Verratti, Gundogan
b) or less proven players, some hidden gems aged 18-22, or some players like Rakitic aged 22-26 who don't look like superstars on paper, but could turn to awesome players here in Barca
c) or some new La Masia kids who will maybe have more potential or courage (than Roberto), for example

We should not limit the choice to either Arda or Roberto/Rafinha.
There are lots of other options.
 

God Serena

New member
Instead of Arda vs Roberto/Rafinha, we could add a 3rd option:
1. Arda is not good enough to be a starter here, even though he looked as a good signing based on his Atletico's career
2. Roberto/Rafinha are also not good enough to be starters, and probably won't ever be
3. let's look for some option 3, either:
a) world class players like Pogba, Verratti, Gundogan
b) or less proven players, some hidden gems aged 18-22, or some players like Rakitic aged 22-26 who don't look like superstars on paper, but could turn to awesome players here in Barca
c) or some new La Masia kids who will maybe have more potential or courage (than Roberto), for example

We should not limit the choice to either Arda or Roberto/Rafinha.
There are lots of other options.

I... actually agree with this. Finding the right balance between the three is the difficult part, but splashing enormous cash on short term players who may or may not perform on an acceptable level only serves to hurt us. Signings like Rakitic or Verrati while keeping a constant eye out for anything promising from the cantera is the best way to improve the team.

Btw, it seems like you're hatred of Pogba has... dwindled. This is the second time you've used him as an example of a signing you'd like to see.
 
J

Jamie Cal

Guest
I would say Roberto has the most cut out of our current crop of midfielders, though. Suarez' first goal at Real was the example of this; Sergi's strong run with the ball pulled them asunder. It's something we should get out of Rafinha but never too, I think he's too passive ("vanilla") to succeed here.

I do agree Bob has to improve in the final 3rd if he's to be our starting RB, though. That said, I thought his crosses at the start of the season were excellent, during his initial run when he broke into the team. Whereas Dani is getting into the positions, making the moves etc. but his crosses can be really really bad, Betis first half was exactly that.
 

MasChe

New member
I believe it's a matter of confidence for Roberto. Particularly when at RB. In the first part of the season he was at an all time high with confidence. And then he slowly became more integrated, either starting the games or being a regular sub. And that continued throughout, until the whole team fell apart in last month or so, and he just became a part of that gloomy performing team. So many times I want him to take the ball and make that run through the midfield like he did in the fall, but he plays it rather safe and for me it's the confidence thing.
 
J

Jamie Cal

Guest
I wouldn't say "confidence", but it is right that we're more stat and not as fluid as we were at our best, and that does have an effect. Still, he has things to improve on, and that's a good thing. Important to remember this is his first proper year after years of being frozen out.
 

Total-Football

Senior Member
I would say Roberto has the most cut out of our current crop of midfielders, though. Suarez' first goal at Real was the example of this; Sergi's strong run with the ball pulled them asunder. It's something we should get out of Rafinha but never too, I think he's too passive ("vanilla") to succeed here.

I do agree Bob has to improve in the final 3rd if he's to be our starting RB, though. That said, I thought his crosses at the start of the season were excellent, during his initial run when he broke into the team. Whereas Dani is getting into the positions, making the moves etc. but his crosses can be really really bad, Betis first half was exactly that.

it's something the whole team should aspire to .. move without the flucking ball to imbalance opponents and take them out of position .. in 2011 we used to make so many runs in the final third of the pitch .. this last couple of mouths our players resembled statues .. the dynamic play is key to our style pf play , Roberto is a dynamic player , and since we are short on such players , he needs to be a starter , simple as that.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I believe it's a matter of confidence for Roberto. Particularly when at RB. In the first part of the season he was at an all time high with confidence. And then he slowly became more integrated, either starting the games or being a regular sub. And that continued throughout, until the whole team fell apart in last month or so, and he just became a part of that gloomy performing team. So many times I want him to take the ball and make that run through the midfield like he did in the fall, but he plays it rather safe and for me it's the confidence thing.

I would say Roberto has the most cut out of our current crop of midfielders, though. Suarez' first goal at Real was the example of this; Sergi's strong run with the ball pulled them asunder. It's something we should get out of Rafinha but never too, I think he's too passive ("vanilla") to succeed here.

I do agree Bob has to improve in the final 3rd if he's to be our starting RB, though. That said, I thought his crosses at the start of the season were excellent, during his initial run when he broke into the team. Whereas Dani is getting into the positions, making the moves etc. but his crosses can be really really bad, Betis first half was exactly that.

With Roberto, I have fears that:
1. him being a jack of all trades will mean that he will never be a master on any position
He will just be a sub for more or less every position.
I personally think that he will be a sub even for a RB as years will go by.
Vidal will take that position, or we will again just buy some new guy.
2. further, he seems like just too nice guy (imo), without too much "balls"

He proved that he can do amazing things sometimes. But he isn't imposing himself at all.
Or if he is, he doesn't do it too often...

If someone will say: but he needs time and minutes to get confidence.
Well, yes.
But I have fears that he is just that kind of personality. Not a guy who will impose himself and take more responsibility during matches, but sadly, that is what we need.

I personally get that "impression" from his play, body language, appearance (it may sound strange, since both Xavi and Iniesta are nice guys, but they did impose themselves always).
Kovacic from Real has the same problem in the last 3-4 years, imo, even though he is younger, so maybe he will improve his "courage" over years.

To sum it up:
1. Roberto plays on way too many positions to become an expert on one
2. he isn't naturally THAT gifted as we would want
3. he seems like a too passive personality to impose himself (enough for Barca's level)
4. plus, he is already 24. Majority of players in those years are more or less formed footballers.

I do like him as a squad player and I hope he will stay here forever, he is awesome for that role.
But I don't have too much faith that he can become a starter. (He can, but that would mean that our standards deteriorated somewhat...)

This is not an attack on Roberto or Rafinha, but more like: we will need some new options since neither Arda, Roberto or Rafinha will be our future starters.
Let's see how will Denis play this season. Maybe he can impose himself more.

If not, in 2017, we will look for some other La Masia potentials (Samper, Alena?) and put our hopes in them, or we will need to buy some new players, either proven or players with high potential.
 
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J

Jamie Cal

Guest
With Roberto, I have fears that:
1. him being a jack of all trades will mean that he will never be a master on any position
He will just be a sub for more or less every position.
I personally think that he will be a sub even for a RB as years will go by.
Vidal will take that position, or we will again just buy some new guy.
2. further, he seems like just too nice guy (imo), without too much "balls"

He proved that he can do amazing things sometimes. But he isn't imposing himself at all.
Or if he is, he doesn't do it too often...

If someone will say: but he needs time and minutes to get confidence.
Well, yes.
But I have fears that he is just that kind of personality. Not a guy who will impose himself and take more responsibility during matches, but sadly, that is what we need.

I personally get that "impression" from his play, body language, appearance (it may sound strange, since both Xavi and Iniesta are nice guys, but they did impose themselves always).
Kovacic from Real has the same problem in the last 3-4 years, imo, even though he is younger, so maybe he will improve his "courage" over years.

To sum it up:
1. Roberto plays on way too many positions to become an expert on one
2. he isn't naturally THAT gifted as we would want
3. he seems like a too passive personality to impose himself (enough for Barca's level)
4. plus, he is already 24. Majority of players in those years are more or less formed footballers.

I do like him as a squad player and I hope he will stay here forever, he is awesome for that role.
But I don't have too much faith that he can become a starter. (He can, but that would mean that our standards deteriorated somewhat...)

This is not an attack on Roberto or Rafinha, but more like: we will need some new options since neither Arda, Roberto or Rafinha will be our future starters.
Let's see how will Denis play this season. Maybe he can impose himself more.

If not, in 2017, we will look for some other La Masia potentials (Samper, Alena?) and put our hopes in them, or we will need to buy some new players, either proven or players with high potential.

Indeed, I agree with all this. It seems to be the problem with quite a few of the current crop from La Masia, Bartra and Montoya were way too passive too. I wouldn't say Tello, he just lacked brain imo.

That said, it is worth taking into account the leaps and bounds he came on this year and it's his only proper year. He could be given a real chance at being our starting RB next season. I think the sheer amount of numbers we have in midfield will definitely stop him from getting a chance to be our starter there. And as you say, we're producing quite a few talents in midfield in Masia now.

If I had to guess, though, we'll probably go for Bellerin in another year or 2 unless one of Vidal or Roberto has a huge year next season.
 

MasChe

New member
With Roberto, I have fears that:
1. him being a jack of all trades will mean that he will never be a master on any position
He will just be a sub for more or less every position.
I personally think that he will be a sub even for a RB as years will go by.
Vidal will take that position, or we will again just buy some new guy.
2. further, he seems like just too nice guy (imo), without too much "balls"

He proved that he can do amazing things sometimes. But he isn't imposing himself at all.
Or if he is, he doesn't do it too often...

If someone will say: but he needs time and minutes to get confidence.
Well, yes.
But I have fears that he is just that kind of personality. Not a guy who will impose himself and take more responsibility during matches, but sadly, that is what we need.

I personally get that "impression" from his play, body language, appearance (it may sound strange, since both Xavi and Iniesta are nice guys, but they did impose themselves always).
Kovacic from Real has the same problem in the last 3-4 years, imo, even though he is younger, so maybe he will improve his "courage" over years.

To sum it up:
1. Roberto plays on way too many positions to become an expert on one
2. he isn't naturally THAT gifted as we would want
3. he seems like a too passive personality to impose himself (enough for Barca's level)
4. plus, he is already 24. Majority of players in those years are more or less formed footballers.

I do like him as a squad player and I hope he will stay here forever, he is awesome for that role.
But I don't have too much faith that he can become a starter. (He can, but that would mean that our standards deteriorated somewhat...)

This is not an attack on Roberto or Rafinha, but more like: we will need some new options since neither Arda, Roberto or Rafinha will be our future starters.
Let's see how will Denis play this season. Maybe he can impose himself more.

If not, in 2017, we will look for some other La Masia potentials (Samper, Alena?) and put our hopes in them, or we will need to buy some new players, either proven or players with high potential.



Exactly this.

He really is a nice guy, but I want to see more daringness and passion from this new la masia kids.
Maybe they are instructed to play that way under Lucho, but all that 'pass it to Messi or Iniesta and playing it safe' thing really irks me at times.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Exactly this.

He really is a nice guy, but I want to see more daringness and passion from this new la masia kids.
Maybe they are instructed to play that way under Lucho, but all that 'pass it to Messi or Iniesta and playing it safe' thing really irks me at times.

I don't think that they are instructed that way.
It is probably their personality.

Roberto is the opposite of Halilovic and Adama.

Roberto will take the ball and take some responsibility in my estimation, in 10% of actions.
He will pass the ball sideways in 90% of actions.
While Halilovic or Adama will try something way too often, roughly, in 80-90% of actions.

So, Roberto does it too rarely, and it will probably kill his Barca's career.
(But also, you can't improve that part consciously imo. You either have that skill naturally in your Dna/brain/blood to take the ball when needed and do something, or you don't.)

On the other hand, guys who do this too often, like Halil, surely DO have that "skill" naturally.
But they either don't have brains, or this skill (take the ball and decide the match on your own) is too strong and they can't resist from doing it way too often which is again killing their careers in a similar way.

Barca, imo, needs a nice combination of that passion/balls/courage and some brains, where you both have:
1. that instinct in your Dna to take the ball sometimes and try something (like Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta etc)
2. but also, you have some IQ to understand that you can't do that 20 times per match and that you have to decide when to try some solo action, or some risky move, and when it is better to pass the ball sideways and wait for a better moment.

From other youngsters, Samper seems to have more courage than Roberto, but Samper has tons of his own problems also.
Rafinha has courage, but he suffer from other problems (he isn't THAT talented naturally, inconsistent, he is all over the place too often when he plays etc).
Lee surely has a natural level of courage.
Alena for now also seems to have a nice amount of courage and brains. But he is way too young and he still has 100s of other obstacles infront of him.
For now, he has the highest chances to turn into a Barca's type of a midfielder, but again, there are 100s of obstacles infront of him:
 
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xXKonan

Senior Member
Read on MD Roberto's buyout clause fee rose to 40 million From 30 million,since he has played 60% of the games played this season.
 

xXKonan

Senior Member
Good. We should stil offer him extension with higher buyout
MD reported Roberto was one of the players Barca considered important so they are going to give him a Renewal. I hope they raise his buyout fee, some of the stuff I read only mentions is giving him a better salary but no mentions of a higher buyout clause.
 

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