Sergi Samper

[Zangash]

I can't see why it would'nt work. He would probably want to bring in more defensive backs, but i could see him put up a team like this with our current players:

---------------- Bravo -----------------
Montoya - Pique - Mathieu - Adriano
------- Samper ---- Busquets --------
-- Messi ----- Iniesta ---- Neymar --
--------------- Suarez -----------------

Any coach that seriously plays Adriano over Alba and refuses to start Bartra is a coach that will not be going anywhere but the unemployment line. Adriano is God awful on both defense and offense so I don't get how anyone could even dream of a world where he starts over anyone.

Messi on the right wing and Iniesta as CAM are terrible ideas in their own right as well.

Simeone would get sacked with that formation in mind.

 

[Kasperroed]

Any coach that seriously plays Adriano over Alba and refuses to start Bartra is a coach that will not be going anywhere but the unemployment line. Adriano is God awful on both defense and offense so I don't get how anyone could even dream of a world where he starts over anyone.

Messi on the right wing and Iniesta as CAM are terrible ideas in their own right as well.

Simeone would get sacked with that formation in mind.

Have you any idea what you are talking about?

 

[Zangash]

Have you any idea what you are talking about?

Yes, I do.

If you think Messi on the wing is the answer to our problems you're the one with no clue.

 

[Kasperroed]

Yes, I do.

If you think Messi on the wing is the answer to our problems you're the one with no clue.

If you think Messi will ever play a certain position on the pitch (Like Busquets), you are terribly wrong. Actually, that is the "position" Messi plays now. However, he has been given permission to go wherever he wants wo, which he certanly does.

 

[Zangash]

If you think Messi will ever play a certain position on the pitch (Like Busquets), you are terribly wrong. Actually, that is the "position" Messi plays now. However, he has been given permission to go wherever he wants wo, which he certanly does.

The exact same would apply to Iniesta (Not a CAM by any stretch of the imagination), Neymar (Prefers to roam centrally) and Suarez as well, then. Not to mention the lack of CMs in that formation would mean a complete lack of creativity outside of Iniesta, who has never been able to control a game entirely on his lonesome the way Xavi can.

And Messi playing on the right currently is a large part of why we're playing so abysmally.

 

[DinhoR10]

The exact same would apply to Iniesta (Not a CAM by any stretch of the imagination), Neymar (Prefers to roam centrally) and Suarez as well, then. Not to mention the lack of CMs in that formation would mean a complete lack of creativity outside of Iniesta, who has never been able to control a game entirely on his lonesome the way Xavi can.

And Messi playing on the right currently is a large part of why we're playing so abysmally.

What madness are you talking about? Messi's flurry of goals started when Lucho moved him to the RW away from the no 10 role and moved Suarez to the middle. Messi has played all but 1 game since we played Ajax the second time on the RW even on his heatmap he is shown to the right or suarez. Messi's current positioning has nothing to do with how we played the last couple games. It probably has something to do with idk, Iniesta's yo-yo type form or the fact that Rakitic refuses to link up with him. Or Alves being Alves, or Busquets giving up on football or Suarez's inability to score or Lucho refusing to play Bartra/Rafinha/Montoya regularly.

 

[Zangash]

What madness are you talking about? Messi's flurry of goals started when Lucho moved him to the RW away from the no 10 role and moved Suarez to the middle. Messi has played all but 1 game since we played Ajax the second time on the RW even on his heatmap he is shown to the right or suarez. Messi's current positioning has nothing to do with how we played the last couple games. It probably has something to do with idk, Iniesta's yo-yo type form or the fact that Rakitic refuses to link up with him. Or Alves being Alves, or Busquets giving up on football or Suarez's inability to score or Lucho refusing to play Bartra/Rafinha/Montoya regularly.

Messi's "Flurry of goals" did not start when he was moved to the right wing. He has always been a player to score an absurd amount of goals, and that has primarily been from the center. I'd like for you to try and prove me wrong on that.

The reason we play abysmal football nowadays is because our midfielders have to play defense, with Rakatic's primary role being to cover for Alves. We don't have any midfield whatsoever. Prior to Suarez returning Messi and Neymar played behind Munir/Sandro and it worked, but for some reason when Suarez made his debut Lucho changed his tactics to shoving suarez out wide, and then swapped him with Messi. Messi cutting in from the outside leaves him isolated most of the time when he wants to make a dribble and when he wants he has to carry the ball from midfield himself because we don't have any midfield to speak of. Not to mention Alves, of whom we are sacrificing our midfield for, completely ruins any and all attacks we try to launch by giving possession to their defense and goalkeeper, if he can even keep the ball in bounds.

And if you think the problem is only the last couple of games you should go back and re-watch our season so far.

 

[anguy]

What madness are you talking about? Messi's flurry of goals started when Lucho moved him to the RW away from the no 10 role and moved Suarez to the middle. Messi has played all but 1 game since we played Ajax the second time on the RW even on his heatmap he is shown to the right or suarez. Messi's current positioning has nothing to do with how we played the last couple games.

Just look at the highlights. Vast majority of Messi's goals, assists and memorable moments in general occur when he's in central position not RW. He might be RW officially but he's best in the middle. Pushing him to the right might be good for Suarez, but we lose a lot of creativity in the middle, because Iniesta is unable to replace Messi in AM role.

Really, I said since the summer when we bought Suarez, that our best formation would be 4-2-3-1.

-------------------------------------GK-----------------------------------------

Montoya/Adriano---Pique/Bartra---Mathieu/Bartra---Alba/Grimaldo

----------------Mascherano/Busq-----Rak/Samper/Xavi----------------

----Adama/Pedro/Messi----Messi/Rafinha-----Neymar/Iniesta-----

------------------------Suarez/Sandro/Munir------------------------------

This formation fits the strengths of our top players best. Both Messi and Suarez can play in the middle, where they are best. Suarez is our only forward powerful enough to play with his back to the net if needed and score from headers. Neymar can play as left forward, not winger with Alba or Grimaldo used offensively ala Alves to provide width. While Rakitic would still be playing deeper that he likes, Alba is better defender than Alves, so he'll have more freedom to move forward. Fabregas plays in simialr position with Chelsea and still gets involved offensively. I put Adama on RW despite his youth and inexperience because he's perfect fit for this formation. He can beat his defender one on one and provide crosses for Suarez and width like Alba on left flank.
The only players who would not profit from this formation are Iniesta and Xavi, who will be on bench. But Xavi is old and might leave and Iniesta is not playing well anyway, so he shouldn't have guaranteed starting spot.

 

[DinhoR10]

Messi's "Flurry of goals" did not start when he was moved to the right wing. He has always been a player to score an absurd amount of goals, and that has primarily been from the center. I'd like for you to try and prove me wrong on that.

The reason we play abysmal football nowadays is because our midfielders have to play defense, with Rakatic's primary role being to cover for Alves. We don't have any midfield whatsoever. Prior to Suarez returning Messi and Neymar played behind Munir/Sandro and it worked, but for some reason when Suarez made his debut Lucho changed his tactics to shoving suarez out wide, and then swapped him with Messi. Messi cutting in from the outside leaves him isolated most of the time when he wants to make a dribble and when he wants he has to carry the ball from midfield himself because we don't have any midfield to speak of. Not to mention Alves, of whom we are sacrificing our midfield for, completely ruins any and all attacks we try to launch by giving possession to their defense and goalkeeper, if he can even keep the ball in bounds.

And if you think the problem is only the last couple of games you should go back and re-watch our season so far.

Well thats not what you said, you said that we were playing abysmally BECAUSE messi was in the RW that was what i found absurd. And by flurry of goals i meant his 3 hattricks in a week.

 

[Zangash]

Well thats not what you said, you said that we were playing abysmally BECAUSE messi was in the RW that was what i found absurd. And by flurry of goals i meant his 3 hattricks in a week.

Messi playing on the right wing is a major reason. It's not the only one, but it's a bullet point on the list. My exact words were "And Messi playing on the right currently is a large part of why we're playing so abysmally." What sense does it make to take your best dribbler, playmaker, AND goalscorer, and shove him out wide so he can't effectively do any of those things?

 

[DinhoR10]

Messi playing on the right wing is a major reason. It's not the only one, but it's a bullet point on the list. My exact words were "And Messi playing on the right currently is a large part of why we're playing so abysmally." What sense does it make to take your best dribbler, playmaker, AND goalscorer, and shove him out wide so he can't effectively do any of those things?

Messi on the wing doesnt mean much except that its his starting position, as said before he'll find himself in the positions he needs to be to score the most and assist the most. Fact of the matter is he scored 3 hattricks while playing on the wing and it does not affect his goalscoring negatively it does however help the team because Suarez plays best in the middle. Half the time he's playing as Iniesta's midfield partner anyway since Rakitic is nowhere to be found.

 

[Zangash]

Messi on the wing doesnt mean much except that its his starting position, as said before he'll find himself in the positions he needs to be to score the most and assist the most. Fact of the matter is he scored 3 hattricks while playing on the wing and it does not affect his goalscoring negatively it does however help the team because Suarez plays best in the middle. Half the time he's playing as Iniesta's midfield partner anyway since Rakitic is nowhere to be found.

Right. Messi doesn't play on the right wing. Who does, then? Alves. Who covers for Alves? Rakatic. But it's Rakatic's fault that he's nowhere to be found? It sure doesn't help that the only contribution Alves brings to the team is giving the ball straight to the other team and that he doesn't give a rat's ass about tracking back despite being a defender. But yes, it's all because Rakatic isn't there to help Iniesta that Messi has to drop so deep in midfield. You are so shortsighted I could almost call you blind. And playing Suarez in the center doesn't benefit the team in any way because, in case you haven't noticed by now, Suarez is discovering what most BPL heroes discover when they come to La Liga, and that's that the league actually knows how to play defense. Who would have guessed.

Lucho's entire system is broken beyond belief. We could fill every position we have with all the best players imaginable and we'd still suffer because there is no system in place. The names we slap onto the end of our bitching would change but that's just about it.

 

[DinhoR10]

Right. Messi doesn't play on the right wing. Who does, then? Alves. Who covers for Alves? Rakatic. But it's Rakatic's fault that he's nowhere to be found? It sure doesn't help that the only contribution Alves brings to the team is giving the ball straight to the other team and that he doesn't give a rat's ass about tracking back despite being a defender. But yes, it's all because Rakatic isn't there to help Iniesta that Messi has to drop so deep in midfield. You are so shortsighted I could almost call you blind. And playing Suarez in the center doesn't benefit the team in any way because, in case you haven't noticed by now, Suarez is discovering what most BPL heroes discover when they come to La Liga, and that's that the league actually knows how to play defense. Who would have guessed.

Lucho's entire system is broken beyond belief. We could fill every position we have with all the best players imaginable and we'd still suffer because there is no system in place. The names we slap onto the end of our bitching would change but that's just about it.

Rakitic was still anonymous with the defense minded Montoya as RB against cordaba. You seem to not be watching our games and be basing your opinions on rants about matches played back in october. And read my post again I said Messi will find himself in the position he needs to be to score and assist which means that if he needs to be on the wing at a point in time he'll be on the wing, like he has been since Lucho has him out there. He moves to the middle when theres buildup on the other side of the field but he also starts action out on the wing and assists/makes runs from there. Static positioning hasn't been a part of Messi's game since 2007.

 

[Zangash]

Rakitic was still anonymous with the defense minded Montoya as RB against cordaba.

Did you even watch that game? Because him being much more influential in the game because he didn't have to cover for Alves was the very first thing I noticed that game. Just watch The clip below. 13 seconds in and Rakatic has already proven your baseless comment about him being anonymous as false. Nice try, though.

You seem to not be watching our games and be basing your opinions on rants about matches played back in october.

I'm the one not watching the games, but somehow between the two of us I'm the one who actually knows what's happening in them.

And read my post again I said Messi will find himself in the position he needs to be to score and assist which means that if he needs to be on the wing at a point in time he'll be on the wing, like he has been since Lucho has him out there.

What you're essentially saying is Messi will ignore his position as a right winger in favor of moving somewhere, ANYWHERE, where he can assist or score. What I'm saying is it's stupid to play him as a right winger, then. There is absolutely no reason why he should be playing on the wing, and your argument only further solidifies this. As I said before, him essentially abandoning his RW post because he and everyone else knows he can't do shit over there means our only threat on the right flank is Alves, who is actually a detriment to the team at this point, and because Lucho's genius tactics revolve around Rakatic moving over to fill in as RB for Alves. Your only argument against this fact is essentially you informing me that you didn't so much as read the live tweets as the game was happening. Rakatic was immense that game and him not having to cover for Alves is a huge part of why we won 5-0.

He moves to the middle when theres buildup on the other side of the field but he also starts action out on the wing and assists/makes runs from there. Static positioning hasn't been a part of Messi's game since 2007.

Show me some highlights of where he scored a goal or made an assist from the right wing this season. You can even go scan those 3 hat tricks, if you please. I can't say I remember every goal he's scored since moving to the right wing, so there is a small chance you might actually find one and claim you're brain is the center of the footballing universe, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DonAK]

Ratatatatatataic