Thiago Translantara

[dalitis8]

Irv, great post. But Cesc will eventually move into Xavi's place. Considering Iniesta plays at his place, you need to add Injury on the table. Think 2 or 3 years would have been too much. And in football everyone is killing someones else's minutes. SAme thing happened with Bojan for so many seasons.

Bojan was/is not good enough for Barca. Some people must learn to face the facts. He is not even a starter for AS Roma ffs.

For me, if a player is Barca-level, that will show from an extremely early age. Messi is in his own league, but his talent shone brightly since he was 16. Xavi and Iniesta both impressed from their teens. So did Puyol. Cesc was a prodigy since the age of 14. He was a star with Spain's junior national selections and that is why Arsenal pounced when we were sleeping.

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it. He sure has some fancy moves, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow (a real possibility) and Xavi was injured (again a real possibility) who would we want to start at CM? Cesc or Thiago? That is how I view things.

As for waiting for Cesc more years. I do not agree with that. Arsenal and Wenger were killing him. They relied on him so much that they did not even wait for him to recover, they were throwing him in, even if not ready, because they did not give a fuck for his long-term prospects. As soon as it became clear that Cesc was coming to us, Arsenal were on a mission to literally fuck him up. We saved a brilliant player from annihilation. Thankfully for us, he helped our cause during 10/11, by giving only 40% of his powers and Arsenal swallowed the harsh reality, namely: Cesc has Barca DNA.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

But in any case, if Thiago is a natural talent, that will show, and we will keep him, and he will be a star for us along all the others. We play so many games each year, that there is room for everybody. Just look at all the minutes he got this season, despite is having: Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Biscuits, Mascherano, Keita and Thiago.

But the point is, that Cesc is the better player, and he is ahead in the pecking order. Hell, just take a look at the minutes that Tello and Cuenca have gotten this season.

 

[evilhita666]

If you meant Cesc is better right now, I'd say yes as long as Cesc plays in his goddamn position, hahaha...

And Thiago has been brilliant for both Barca and Spain for years, so he could easily fit in the category of players you mentioned, hell, even Bojan was great at that age, I think he is still the top scorer of our youth ranks, and still he turned crap, so that's no guarantee...

And the fact that Arsenal relied so much on Cesc was none of our business, it was their player after all and they needed him, yeah it was stupid by them but they were entitled to do it... It's not like we HAD to rescue him from evil hands that kidnapped him or something, he went there voluntarily and it was not our fault Arsenal went to shit... In that case let's sign Bojan back because Roma and Luis Enrique are killing him by not making him play! Cesc came here because Pep thought he could make the team better, plain and simple, not because of some culé fairy tale...

You are really stretching the truth if you honestly think that Arsenal were going to destroy a player just because he wanted a transfer (especially a player they greatly appreciate regardless of leaving), and to think of us as some kind of saviors is just too much...

 

[Metaphysical]

those are great numbers. and I'm not disappointed in him. What those numbers do not show, however, is the situation with which he has entered in to the games. I'm not going to complain about his role, because Cesc has been played out of position all year. but I do think that he would have been better served building on his pre-season momentum by filling in for Xavi or filling in for Iniesta or filling in for Sergio and knowing that he is the #4 midfielder on the team (no pun intended). I think Cesc's arrival tempered that and pushed him to the "fringe" minutes and situations.

and I'm not blaming Cesc or hating on Cesc. But this is a great example to build the Neymar vs Tello/Pedro/Cuenca debate. Here is a Cantera product (Thiago) pushed to the fringes and whose development has been stunted because of a high priced arrival. Did we need Cesc? nope. not based on the way Pep has played him. would Thiago's development have grown if he had been given key minutes with Iniesta/Xavi out? yes.

again, I'm not hating on Cesc. I just wish that Thiago was given another year to grow before the decision to import Cesc was made. Just like I want Tello and Cuenca to grow for another year, Pedro to be allowed to return to form, and MaraVilla to be allowed to return from injury before making the decision to buy another high-priced import.

so we didn't need a free-scoring mediapunta to play as a #10/False9?

who was going to occupy that role, then? who was going to score the goals and make the assists that Cesc did? I mean if we really could have waited a year.

when we signed him, sure, it looked like very expensive forward-planning, but as the season panned out it's become quite clear that we'd have been fucked had we spent that money on, say, a defender. the poor form & poor physical shape of our #2 and #3 scorer put so much burden on Messi to carry us in the final third, but the signing of Cesc suddenly created a new #2 and #3 option in Cesc and Xavi.

because now we can have two guys in the #10/False9 role, and as both are capable of dropping back into midfield, there are two rotations:

1. Messi moves deep, Iniesta moves across/doesn't move, Cesc moves left/back, Xavi moves forward = Xavi goal
2. Messi moves deep, Cesc moves forward = Cesc goal

obviously there are variations, but Cesc is crucial to them all because he can play in both the forward and the midfield line and be a threat in both.

to say that Cesc took anything from Thiago is fucking ludicrous, the two have very rarely competed for the same position.

and besides all that; Thiago was fucking badman against Villarreal in the Camp Nou, Milan in the San Siro and Santos in the CWC Final, which for his first 6 months in the first team is fucking good going. he was never going to waltz in and take over the midfield, so setting expectations that high was always gonna lead to disappointments. but frankly I'm delighted with how he's doing. he's showing that he can be solid as well as spectacular, that he can be a reliable member of the first team squad, which is a crucial step on his way to becoming a first team regular.

 

[Aryagorn]

TBH the drop in form for our #2 & #3 scorers can be attributed to the signing of Cesc and then the tinkering with the formation as a result... Our wide forwards struggled playing 3-4-3 system

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Bojan was/is not good enough for Barca. Some people must learn to face the facts.

That is your opinion not a fact. Bojan was brought in too early because everyone had a major boner for the kid and even gave him #9 to show we stood by him. The only fact here is that Barça as an organization don't have that much patience due to our high demand for trophies. That does not mean Bojan was never good enough, because obviously he was (he made first team at what age 19,20?), it's just that he dealt with a mental block that couldn't have come at a worse moment. As for AS Roma, I couldn't tell you what his development has been as I don't watch much of them tbh, but I can say that he does/did have talent. That Barça kind of talent.

For me, if a player is Barca-level, that will show from an extremely early age.

I think that has some truth but this is not always the case. Just look at the recent example of Tello. He has emerged because he has produced at the right times, not because he was all the rave at Barça B. In fact, in pre-season the main stain of Barça B was Rafinha, not Tello. It has a lot to do with getting a little lucky and jumping in at the right moments. Talent tells most of the story, but not all of it.

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it.

How can you be so sure? His consistency for his age is pretty darn amazing. The MOST impressive part about Thiago's development has been his maturity. He is stone cold on most games he appears. Abidal-esque!! It was only on one occasion where I saw Thiago stumble a bit and look his age with clumsy challenges/tackles/etc. I believe it was against Milan but I could be wrong. The point is, even though he was noticeably frazzled, he still didn't play "poor" and only needed to control himself a bit more (certainly an age thing because look at Tello's "going for hat trick" moment when he failed to find Pedro on the far post - an experienced Barça player knows to pass the ball for the certain goal). You see, all of our youngsters either integrate immediately because they are freaks like Messi or require a little hand holding, leadership, and correct play time and timing of first team action. A lot of it has to do with development, but not just development, the correct kind of development. It is like holding an egg in your hands and trying not to break it. Development can be that delicate when you have millions and millions of fans with high expectations.

As for waiting for Cesc more years. I do not agree with that. Arsenal and Wenger were killing him. They relied on him so much that they did not even wait for him to recover, they were throwing him in, even if not ready, because they did not give a fuck for his long-term prospects. As soon as it became clear that Cesc was coming to us, Arsenal were on a mission to literally fuck him up. We saved a brilliant player from annihilation. Thankfully for us, he helped our cause during 10/11, by giving only 40% of his powers and Arsenal swallowed the harsh reality, namely: Cesc has Barca DNA.

This I agree with completely. Along with the abuse his body took while in London, his mentality took the hardest hits. He had developed a losing mentality imho.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

That may be just a personal opinion, no in fact I'm positive it is a personal opinion. You can never know anything for certain unless Pep himself said it. He played Thiago a lot so far this season, so we can definitely say he has no real attitude issues with complaining/whining etc (that we know about or have heard about anyway).

But in any case, if Thiago is a natural talent,
But the point is, that Cesc is the better player, and he is ahead in the pecking order.

I wouldn't consider Cesc a better player at all. I see him as the more experienced and seasoned player at this point in their careers. He has a wealth of experience that certainly Thiago will one day be able to enjoy as well seeing that he is a consistent performer. He hasn't shown anything but performance and talent, so the sky is the limit really.

 

[Maria]

TBH the drop in form for our #2 & #3 scorers can be attributed to the signing of Cesc and then the tinkering with the formation as a result... Our wide forwards struggled playing 3-4-3 system

This isn't true..Pedro has been poor for about a year now(with the exception of CL final) and Villa was carrying an injury..not to mention the fact that Alexis isn't capable of having 3 consecutive good games or 5 without getting injured..I hate Cesc(or at least I don't love him as much as I love our other midfielders), but he had nothing to do with the drop of form of Villa and Pedro.

For me, if a player is Barca-level, that will show from an extremely early age. Messi is in his own league, but his talent shone brightly since he was 16. Xavi and Iniesta both impressed from their teens. So did Puyol. Cesc was a prodigy since the age of 14. He was a star with Spain's junior national selections and that is why Arsenal pounced when we were sleeping.

Busi, VV and Pedro don't agree with you..and if you want a bigger name, Zidane went to another level when he was 27 y.o. Also, you are lying when you say Thiago hasn't shine at a younger age..he did(he was the star of Spain U-21 when they won the EC, in a team that had Mata, Adrian or Muniain). Our concerns were always his character, but until now he has proven to be as humble as Iniesta and did well in every position he was played.

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it.

Chances are that Thiago won't make it..and chances are(if we take his talent into account) that one day he could win the Ballon d'Or. No one knows what will happend.

He sure has some fancy moves, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow (a real possibility) and Xavi was injured (again a real possibility) who would we want to start at CM? Cesc or Thiago? That is how I view things.

We faced Thiago with Iniesta injured at San Siro and the one who played in midfield was him, not Cesc(he was also better than the catalan then)..I still don't think that Cesc will be Xavi's replacement. I don't remember more than 180 good minutes from him as a CM..and I still believe that his best position is as a mediapunta.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

What makes you so certain? How do you know that it was Thiago and not Pique or Bojan or Ibra? We can be only be certain of one thing: if Pep wouldn't have trust him, he wouldn't have played as much as he did.

I'm very surprised of how so many cules presume of our cantera but then don't have the patience to wait for the youngsters to develop..I guess it's easier to buy Cesc, Ibra or Dani Alves than to invest patience and illusion into players like Busi, Thiago or Montoya. Sure, not everyone will make it(we have Bojan as a recent example), but the important thing is that most of them are talented and willing to work.

 

[Yugi]

Thiago already made it ffs, how can anyone doubt this? and he is just 20 so leadership will come with age but he is showing Xavi-esque consistency with his passes and can also play as DM (he had to but he can)

 

[Ryan_Cule]

Bojan was/is not good enough for Barca. Some people must learn to face the facts. He is not even a starter for AS Roma ffs.

For me, if a player is Barca-level, that will show from an extremely early age. Messi is in his own league, but his talent shone brightly since he was 16. Xavi and Iniesta both impressed from their teens. So did Puyol. Cesc was a prodigy since the age of 14. He was a star with Spain's junior national selections and that is why Arsenal pounced when we were sleeping.

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it. He sure has some fancy moves, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow (a real possibility) and Xavi was injured (again a real possibility) who would we want to start at CM? Cesc or Thiago? That is how I view things.

As for waiting for Cesc more years. I do not agree with that. Arsenal and Wenger were killing him. They relied on him so much that they did not even wait for him to recover, they were throwing him in, even if not ready, because they did not give a fuck for his long-term prospects. As soon as it became clear that Cesc was coming to us, Arsenal were on a mission to literally fuck him up. We saved a brilliant player from annihilation. Thankfully for us, he helped our cause during 10/11, by giving only 40% of his powers and Arsenal swallowed the harsh reality, namely: Cesc has Barca DNA.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

But in any case, if Thiago is a natural talent, that will show, and we will keep him, and he will be a star for us along all the others. We play so many games each year, that there is room for everybody. Just look at all the minutes he got this season, despite is having: Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Biscuits, Mascherano, Keita and Thiago.

But the point is, that Cesc is the better player, and he is ahead in the pecking order. Hell, just take a look at the minutes that Tello and Cuenca have gotten this season.

1) Doubting Bojan's talent is quite astonishing - Pep always said Bojan was throughout great for Barca . But sadly we had World's best players so it was no point keeping him for warming the bench and killing his talent . When you say Arsenal was killing cesc , be fair with Bojan too. If we had kept , we would have been killing his talent. You can't ask more from a player who used to appear after 65-70 minutes mostly.

Bojan - appearance - goals

2007/08 -31 - 10

2008/09 23 - 2

2009/10 23- 8

2010/11 27 -6

-----------------

2) What personal relationship do you have with Thiago that you are judging him with such confidence ? Any evidence ?

3)Cesc is more experienced player but that's not the same thing of being a better player . Add Cesc's experience with Thiago's and maybe then we can say thiago is better than Cesc. You need to give a youth talent time and support and try not to judge them with such pessimism.

 

[Deco 20]

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it. He sure has some fancy moves, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow (a real possibility) and Xavi was injured (again a real possibility) who would we want to start at CM? Cesc or Thiago? That is how I view things.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

As to the first part, here's me using the same argument on Cesc:
Chances are that Cesc won't make it. He sure scores some goals, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow who would we want to start at CM? Xavi or Cesc? That's how I view things.

And here's what I think you got wrong:
Cesc is older than Thiago (just like Xavi is older than Cesc),Thiago has already shown that he can play vs the likes of Madrid and Milan, just because you consider Cesc better doesn't mean Thiago isn't Barca quality.

And now for the second part:
Why do you think Thiago is full of himself? Because of his dribbling skills? Because he actually FIGHTS for the team during games? Or because he is perfectly happy sitting on the bench? Is it because he was happy just training with the first team last season, not complaining despite almost never getting to play? Is it because he's repeatedly stated his gratitude towards the team? Is it because of all his signs of being humble? Or is it because you don't like him?

You see Cesc complain way more than Thiago does during games, tbh

 

[gingerless]

TBH the drop in form for our #2 & #3 scorers can be attributed to the signing of Cesc and then the tinkering with the formation as a result... Our wide forwards struggled playing 3-4-3 system

 

[Ryan_Cule]

 

[Theconomist]

Bojan was/is not good enough for Barca. Some people must learn to face the facts. He is not even a starter for AS Roma ffs.

For me, if a player is Barca-level, that will show from an extremely early age. Messi is in his own league, but his talent shone brightly since he was 16. Xavi and Iniesta both impressed from their teens. So did Puyol. Cesc was a prodigy since the age of 14. He was a star with Spain's junior national selections and that is why Arsenal pounced when we were sleeping.

Maybe I am wrong, but chances are that Thiago won't make it. He sure has some fancy moves, but if we were facing Madrid or AC Milan tomorrow (a real possibility) and Xavi was injured (again a real possibility) who would we want to start at CM? Cesc or Thiago? That is how I view things.

As for waiting for Cesc more years. I do not agree with that. Arsenal and Wenger were killing him. They relied on him so much that they did not even wait for him to recover, they were throwing him in, even if not ready, because they did not give a fuck for his long-term prospects. As soon as it became clear that Cesc was coming to us, Arsenal were on a mission to literally fuck him up. We saved a brilliant player from annihilation. Thankfully for us, he helped our cause during 10/11, by giving only 40% of his powers and Arsenal swallowed the harsh reality, namely: Cesc has Barca DNA.

Thiago for me, is too full of himself. When Pep made the statement about Keita never complaining, I am certain that he had Thiago in mind.

But in any case, if Thiago is a natural talent, that will show, and we will keep him, and he will be a star for us along all the others. We play so many games each year, that there is room for everybody. Just look at all the minutes he got this season, despite is having: Xavi, Iniesta, Cesc, Biscuits, Mascherano, Keita and Thiago.

But the point is, that Cesc is the better player, and he is ahead in the pecking order. Hell, just take a look at the minutes that Tello and Cuenca have gotten this season.

Messi was brilliant ever since he was 4 year old. Not a fanboy but seriously watch the footage of young Messi.
Just a year into his barca career it was already clear he was going to become a superstar.

 

[Metaphysical]

 

[xavisionary]

This forum is so full of shit at times. A 20 year old in his first season at the biggest club in the world. Remember that.

 

[impeh]

hes learning to control the game more than win it himself, peps clearly told him to shoot less and look to pass more. Hence why he doesnt look as snazzy as in preseason..