Thiago Translantara

[DonAndres]

Alexis was competing with Villa, Pedro and Tello. Masch was competing with Pique and Puyol. Thiago was competing with Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc. When you have much tougher competition, obviously it will be harder for you to get minutes. And no he should not have been guaranteed more time, the club is bigger than any player(well, maybe you could make an exception in the case of Messi) and it's certainly bigger than some youngster that is still proving himself.

In fact you could reasonably argue he got more minutes than he deserved seeing as in the second half of the season he got a similar number of appearances to Iniesta.

The case of Alexis and Masch is that they were regular starters over the other players despite those flaws, Thiago's case is asking for him to get more playing time (not be higher than Xavi). That balances out with the fact that he had harder competition and his flaws were far less pronounced than theirs.

Using "the club is bigger than any player" is a very arrogant and proud way of putting it. So now the players have to bow down to every will and can't make requests? They shouldn't have their own interests at heart along with the team and instead submit to blind obedience in every single respect? He should be assured by the coach of his importance, that's the right way of handling it.

Tata has done the right thing by encouraging even fringe players like JDS, Bartra, Dongou, etc. by saying that he counts on them and values them. That's how you make players feel happy and appreciated. By encouraging them and helping the team, not being stubborn and acting like playing Thiago=instantly accepting a loss. Tito should've assured him and frankly, that's what would happen logically. As Xavi ages, would Thiago start playing less? No, that's completely stupid. Sure he has to work hard to keep playing but that's a given, with that in mind it's pretty simple guaranteeing that he'd be looked into more often as a reliable option to play.

Once again I'm not arguing about how much he played in 12/13, as there are many factors to take into account for that (Tito's illness, Thiago's injury, etc.). All I'm saying is that after the saeson, Thiago felt uncertain of his value at the club. Naturally, he asked Tito if he'd be relied upon more the next season and given a bigger role so that he could develop. You know the rest of the story, and you know that the smart thing to do is not what they did.

 

[lovebarca]

The case of Alexis and Masch is that they were regular starters over the other players despite those flaws, Thiago's case is asking for him to get more playing time (not be higher than Xavi). That balances out with the fact that he had harder competition and his flaws were far less pronounced than theirs.

Using "the club is bigger than any player" is a very arrogant and proud way of putting it. So now the players have to bow down to every will and can't make requests? They shouldn't have their own interests at heart along with the team and instead submit to blind obedience in every single respect? He should be assured by the coach of his importance, that's the right way of handling it.

Tata has done the right thing by encouraging even fringe players like JDS, Bartra, Dongou, etc. by saying that he counts on them and values them. That's how you make players feel happy and appreciated. By encouraging them and helping the team, not being stubborn and acting like playing Thiago=instantly accepting a loss. Tito should've assured him and frankly, that's what would happen logically. As Xavi ages, would Thiago start playing less? No, that's completely stupid. Sure he has to work hard to keep playing but that's a given, with that in mind it's pretty simple guaranteeing that he'd be looked into more often as a reliable option to play.

Once again I'm not arguing about how much he played in 12/13, as there are many factors to take into account for that (Tito's illness, Thiago's injury, etc.). All I'm saying is that after the saeson, Thiago felt uncertain of his value at the club. Naturally, he asked Tito if he'd be relied upon more the next season and given a bigger role so that he could develop. You know the rest of the story, and you know that the smart thing to do is not what they did.

thiago said he is not being values is just pure bullshit.I know tito should have rotated but thing is you have to see player's history also every year he is saying same thing and his father tried to black mailed us every summer.his father talked so openly about switch durin pep time also like his son is messi.
at that time also we bent over given him first team chance.
And one more thing about his performance is that not every time he has given 9 out of 10 performance.So its not he is toooooooooo great. ok granted he is talented but not once in lifetime talent.And he needs to remember that he is youngster he need to earn his time gradually.You cant guarantee a time to player who is also youngster.
case about alexis and mascherano already mentioned we had no other option available at that time so they played.
Its plain and simple he again want to black mail us but board didn't budge this time.

 

[Aryagorn]

Wanting appreciation is a characteristic of every player, even Xavi nearly left because of that if it weren't for his mother. Why is it apples and oranges for this situation? If he got the simple "Yeah Thiago, I'm counting on you" from Tito, there would be no problem. I mean Tata Martino has said that he's counting on guys like JDS, Bartra, and Dongou ffs, why couldn't Thiago be shown a little significance from Tito when he's easily a more proven and trustworthy youngster than the others. It's not good management, there is no two ways about that.

What makes you think he didn't get that from Tito? He might have been stubborn regarding the number of minutes, which any manager should be in the case of youngsters, but I am pretty sure he would have said that he was counting on him... I mean the board always reiterated the same, that Thiago was the future of Barca!!

The fact that he forced the board to include in his contract that stupid number of minutes clause suggests he wanted Tito to promise him a lot more than that "I am counting on you"... It's a good thing Tito didn't budge.

 

[Hamzah]

Who cares? We have the "patient" midfielder

 

[Luftstalag14]

Has anybody seen this? Posting it here since it is somewhat related to Thiago.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/03/bayern-munich-pep-guardiola

 

[DonAndres]

What makes you think he didn't get that from Tito? He might have been stubborn regarding the number of minutes, which any manager should be in the case of youngsters, but I am pretty sure he would have said that he was counting on him... I mean the board always reiterated the same, that Thiago was the future of Barca!!

The fact that he forced the board to include in his contract that stupid number of minutes clause suggests he wanted Tito to promise him a lot more than that "I am counting on you"... It's a good thing Tito didn't budge.

The club went silent on him, that much is pretty clear. They gave little indication that he was of any value. He has said that and it's been said by many other players who were unsettled as well (Villa, Abidal, Muniesa, etc.). The clause was probably put in by his agent or father, I don't think Thiago as a youngster would really negotiate that in himself or have any intention of doing so. Tito saying that he "can't guarantee more playing time" despite all the reasons pointing towards that is just a slap in the face to a player trying to make a name for himself at the club he's playing for. What's so wrong with a guarantee of more playing time? You think that he'd actually get lazy and stop working hard because of that or start forcing the club to do more things out of blackmail? No, he's an athlete ffs and there is nothing that shows he'd go to that measure to have the upper hand on the club. Asking for encouragement and trust cannot be taken as that sly or cunning of a move. Asking for more playing time in the coming season isn't some controlling scheme from a player to get exactly what he wants without earning it, he worked hard and impressed with the team and in the u21 tournament so it's obvious that he'd want recognition for that.

And it's not just that Tito was stubborn regarding minutes. It's that his entire attitude on Thiago and other youngsters was along the lines of: if they are under the age of 23, playing them is considered a major liability and basically means we accept a loss. Thiago is no amateur shit player, the team would benefit just as much from him having more time as he would. Why did he have to be so hesitant on giving them a little trust when many of their senior counterparts were off form or fatigued?

As for assurance from Tito, he probably did tell Thiago that he was in future plans but remained stubborn on letting Thiago play more in the coming season which is against the interests of both the team and the player. Now tell me, is that good that he didn't budge? Is more midfield rotation and better development for one of our best talents such a sin that "not budging" on that matter is worthy of applause?

 

[Zuess99]

Must have got to him that his peers have more important roles in their teams. Probably sat there watching matches and thought.
-"Wilshere is an important player in his team
so is gotze, neymar, isco and muniain, why
arent I? I mean im just as good and these guys are in my
age range, damn im not gonna get my chance here cause
we already have alot of midfielders and im the youngest
I honestly cant wait another year .."
+Mazinho.

 

[Aryagorn]

Has anybody seen this? Posting it here since it is somewhat related to Thiago.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/aug/03/bayern-munich-pep-guardiola

 

[Aryagorn]

The club went silent on him, that much is pretty clear. They gave little indication that he was of any value. He has said that and it's been said by many other players who were unsettled as well (Villa, Abidal, Muniesa, etc.). The clause was probably put in by his agent or father, I don't think Thiago as a youngster would really negotiate that in himself or have any intention of doing so. Tito saying that he "can't guarantee more playing time" despite all the reasons pointing towards that is just a slap in the face to a player trying to make a name for himself at the club he's playing for. What's so wrong with a guarantee of more playing time? You think that he'd actually get lazy and stop working hard because of that or start forcing the club to do more things out of blackmail? No, he's an athlete ffs and there is nothing that shows he'd go to that measure to have the upper hand on the club. Asking for encouragement and trust cannot be taken as that sly or cunning of a move. Asking for more playing time in the coming season isn't some controlling scheme from a player to get exactly what he wants without earning it, he worked hard and impressed with the team and in the u21 tournament so it's obvious that he'd want recognition for that.

The club didn't deal well with transfers, especially Abidal, I give you that.

But do you really think that Tito would have said "I really can't promise you that you will get more playing time this year"!?
He would have probably said "I can't pomise you this number of minutes but you work hard and it will definitely be appreciated." That's how a professional would promise things, not exactly the amount of minutes, etc.

Besides in Thiago's case it wasn't that he would become complacent or any thing but he had to change his game a little and get more cautious to become Xavi's heir anyway... Promising him the playing time wouldn't give him enough hunger to adapt to a new style. Not just him, any other professional out there, especially the flamboyant ones!!

And it's not just that Tito was stubborn regarding minutes. It's that his entire attitude on Thiago and other youngsters was along the lines of: if they are under the age of 23, playing them is considered a major liability and basically means we accept a loss.

as I said, it was probably more down to his lack of experience and all the other problems he had rhat we already discussed

As for assurance from Tito, he probably did tell Thiago that he was in future plans but remained stubborn on letting Thiago play more in the coming season which is against the interests of both the team and the player. Now tell me, is that good that he didn't budge? Is more midfield rotation and better development for one of our best talents such a sin that "not budging" on that matter is worthy of applause?

The one way it is good riddance is because of his usual tantrums and his "feeling" of unappreciation every other year... It's obviously a loss of a great talent that could have been a world beater with us, but giving up to these kinda tantrums could rock the whole disciplince aspect of the club, so...

 

[oz187]

The case of Alexis and Masch is that they were regular starters over the other players despite those flaws, Thiago's case is asking for him to get more playing time (not be higher than Xavi). That balances out with the fact that he had harder competition and his flaws were far less pronounced than theirs.

No it doesn't balance out. They were regular starters not despite their flaws, but because their competition had flaws. Mascherano only had 2 competing players, including injury ridden Puyol and a Pique that isn't at his best. Alexis was competing with a sluggish Villa, toothless Pedro and one dimensional Tello. Thiago had 3 superior players ahead of him, all proven performers without so many obvious flaws. Tito could have reasonably given Thiago close to zero minutes if he wanted to. Alexis also only played 30% more minutes than Thiago despite not having as much injury.

Using "the club is bigger than any player" is a very arrogant and proud way of putting it. So now the players have to bow down to every will and can't make requests?

No it's not proud or arrogant, it's the truth. The players don't have to bow down but similarly the club doesn't have to bow down. Players can make a request but they can't expect a guarantee.

Tata has done the right thing by encouraging even fringe players like JDS, Bartra, Dongou, etc. by saying that he counts on them and values them.

Tello and Montoya both had an increase of over 1000 minutes. Bartra increased over 800 minutes. All three are inferior to the players ahead of them. Do you really expect a lot more than that? Do you think you'd keep the morale of the regular starters that have given so much to the club happy?

 

[coura]

769 pages for a traitor?

 

[mixer]

769 pages for a traitor?

He used to be our player, just left a couple of weeks ago...

and he's not a traitor you mug

 

[coura]

He used to be our player, just left a couple of weeks ago...

100 pages in 20 days. He was already at bayern. Let it go.

 

[Jaykob]

I find the notion of calling him traitor ridiculous quite frankly

He left because he knows he is a incredible talented midfielder who is 22 and should be playing alot, to become one of the best midfielder in the game and not be behind xavi inesta (obviously) and fabregas.

I would have much more liked it if it was fabregas who was sold, who would be much more effective in another team than barca, with his direct style.

Thiago fits barca much better, it is really a great shame that he is gone .

 

[mixer]

100 pages in 20 days. He was already at bayern. Let it go.

yeah because on those pages people like you we're saying he's a traitor actually