UEFA European U21 Championship
- Thread starter impeh
- Start date
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
So what you're saying is that Montoya is better than Carvajal, but can't break into the Barcelona squad because Alves is in the first team. OK, that makes sense. Despite how good Alves is though, Lahm is better than him. I think most of us can agree to that. And guess got picked best RB in the Bundesliga, and here's the crucial part, ahead of Lahm?
...
It ain't Montoya.
...
It ain't Montoya.
Mr Hulot
New member
So what you're saying is that Montoya is better than Carvajal, but can't break into the Barcelona squad because Alves is in the first team. OK, that makes sense. Despite how good Alves is though, Lahm is better than him. I think most of us can agree to that. And guess got picked best RB in the Bundesliga, and here's the crucial part, ahead of Lahm?
...
It ain't Montoya.
DAT logic. :icon_neutral:
Hercules won 2-0 in Camp Nou. Barcelona won the Champions League. Hercules was the best team in the world.
jamrock
Senior Member
such stupid logic,
1) where did i say montoya had a better season than carvajal ?
2) how does carvajal being voted the best rb in Germany in a team that does include lahm means he is better than montoya because montoya can't bench alves.
3) would have made sense is if carvajal played for bayern and bench lahm, which would not have happen, which means he wouldn't have gotten the chance yo be voted. in the team of the year.
jupp wouldn't have bench lahm for carvajal, much like tito wouldn't bench alves for montoya.
certain players have earned the right to play shit.
as i said would have made sense if carvajal played for bayern.
carvajal has gotten the chance to play because he went to bayer so he showed his stuff that's all
i don't know what's so had to understand montoya is better than carvajal is what i am saying not that he had a better season.
montoya has the better skill set to play right back he balances the offensive and defensive part of his game better than any young right back playing today, which is way he is starting over carvajal right now.
what your saying is that if Ronald has a better season than messi he is the better player
1) where did i say montoya had a better season than carvajal ?
2) how does carvajal being voted the best rb in Germany in a team that does include lahm means he is better than montoya because montoya can't bench alves.
3) would have made sense is if carvajal played for bayern and bench lahm, which would not have happen, which means he wouldn't have gotten the chance yo be voted. in the team of the year.
jupp wouldn't have bench lahm for carvajal, much like tito wouldn't bench alves for montoya.
certain players have earned the right to play shit.
as i said would have made sense if carvajal played for bayern.
carvajal has gotten the chance to play because he went to bayer so he showed his stuff that's all
i don't know what's so had to understand montoya is better than carvajal is what i am saying not that he had a better season.
montoya has the better skill set to play right back he balances the offensive and defensive part of his game better than any young right back playing today, which is way he is starting over carvajal right now.
what your saying is that if Ronald has a better season than messi he is the better player
xavi_the_Boss
New member
So what you're saying is that Montoya is better than Carvajal, but can't break into the Barcelona squad because Alves is in the first team. OK, that makes sense. Despite how good Alves is though, Lahm is better than him. I think most of us can agree to that. And guess got picked best RB in the Bundesliga, and here's the crucial part, ahead of Lahm?
...
It ain't Montoya.
Who picked Carvajal ahead of Lahm?
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
First of all, with players, it is much more legitimate to use this kind of logic with players as opposed to teams, especially in a position such as right back where there isn't too many ways to play it. You can either be more attacking, or more defensive, and that's about as varied as it gets.
Secondly, if Lahm, Alves, Montoya and Carvajal had played one game, what you just said would have been the perfect counter-argument. They have played a whole season, and over the course of the season Carvajal has been better than Lahm. Lahm has been better than Alves, who benched Montoya.
From what I've seen this season, Jupp seems much more eager than Tito to rotate based on current performance as opposed to past. Mandzukic got the starting role over Gomez despite Gomez playing really well last season, Robben started playing much more often once he went out of his slump, Alaba really impressed as well... Tito on the other hand wasn't too keen on giving our youngsters too much playing time, just ask Tello or Thiago.
Considering how Messi and Ronaldo have been playing for several years before this season and Messi has outperformed him every time, no. Carvajal and Montoya, on the other hand, have only really broken out this one season, and from this one season we have to judge them Carvajal has been the better player.
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
Again, right back is a position where comparisons like this one actually work. Why? Because right backs across the board really aren't that different. You basically have super defensive right backs, right backs who balance both attacking and defending, rights back who favor one or the other a bit more, or wanna-be right wingers like Alves. You can compare them across the board because they aren't all that different.
jamrock
Senior Member
another logic could be montoya has bench carvajal when ever they have played.
and since carvajal beating lahm in Germany and lahm is better than alves, then since montoya is benching carvajal then montoya is better than carvajal,lahm and alves and is the best right back in the game
peter griffin "redbull is fuel, fuel must be redbull"
and since carvajal beating lahm in Germany and lahm is better than alves, then since montoya is benching carvajal then montoya is better than carvajal,lahm and alves and is the best right back in the game
peter griffin "redbull is fuel, fuel must be redbull"
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I'm not going to bash Montoya because he was unfairly benched by an off-form Alves. For the sake of this let's assume that if Montoya were to have more playing time he would continue to put in around the same consistent performances he has so far. Even then Carvajal has been obviously above his level.
There is no way in hell Carvajal would be behind Arbeloa in the pecking order at Madrid. Even if he is an attack minded fullback, he's still better defensively than Arbeloa as well. Not all other teams have the same problem as us where our attacking fullbacks can't defend at all and therefore we need one attack minded and one defense minded. For example both Lahm and Alaba are very great going forward yet they both have discipline in defense. Carvajal+Marcelo or Carvajal+Coentrao would work just fine.
As for the u21 argument. How can you discriminate Carvajal for not being picked for u21 and then get all defensive about Montoya not being picked for Barca. That's a complete double standard. Carvajal is better yet he isn't preferred for the u21 team by Lopetegui who personally likes Montoya. That has no indication that Montoya is any better. Just like how Alves has been dismal this season yet constantly gets the nod over Montoya, it doesn't make Montoya worse.
Carvajal has been one of the best RB's in Europe this season, easily. Montoya on the other hand has been solid when he's played but not on the same level.
There is no way in hell Carvajal would be behind Arbeloa in the pecking order at Madrid. Even if he is an attack minded fullback, he's still better defensively than Arbeloa as well. Not all other teams have the same problem as us where our attacking fullbacks can't defend at all and therefore we need one attack minded and one defense minded. For example both Lahm and Alaba are very great going forward yet they both have discipline in defense. Carvajal+Marcelo or Carvajal+Coentrao would work just fine.
As for the u21 argument. How can you discriminate Carvajal for not being picked for u21 and then get all defensive about Montoya not being picked for Barca. That's a complete double standard. Carvajal is better yet he isn't preferred for the u21 team by Lopetegui who personally likes Montoya. That has no indication that Montoya is any better. Just like how Alves has been dismal this season yet constantly gets the nod over Montoya, it doesn't make Montoya worse.
Carvajal has been one of the best RB's in Europe this season, easily. Montoya on the other hand has been solid when he's played but not on the same level.
jamrock
Senior Member
no bayern can do that because they play with two pivots.
to suggest alves n alba can't defend is just laughable .
you suggest that its a personal preference that montoya starts because it fits your argument, coikd it be the coach thinks he is actually better are does that thinking doesn't suit your point of view.
tito doesn't start alves fir personal preference either, alves is better than montoya off form but better. as i said earlier certain players have earned the right to play poorly, doesn't mean tito shouldn't have rotated better.
also the montoya has Brent nothing but solid argument is cap he has played a had full of games, while carvajal has been starting regularly.
that's my point carvajal has been playing regularly, montoya has not so you can hold that against montoya and say because carvajal has shown more in like 3 times has been games he is better, he is having a better season that's it
to suggest alves n alba can't defend is just laughable .
you suggest that its a personal preference that montoya starts because it fits your argument, coikd it be the coach thinks he is actually better are does that thinking doesn't suit your point of view.
tito doesn't start alves fir personal preference either, alves is better than montoya off form but better. as i said earlier certain players have earned the right to play poorly, doesn't mean tito shouldn't have rotated better.
also the montoya has Brent nothing but solid argument is cap he has played a had full of games, while carvajal has been starting regularly.
that's my point carvajal has been playing regularly, montoya has not so you can hold that against montoya and say because carvajal has shown more in like 3 times has been games he is better, he is having a better season that's it
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I don't understand how anyone can say Alves has had any defensive strength this season at all with his horrible positioning, nonexistent aerial ability, and tendency to act as a winger rather than a fullback. That's the laughable part. Alba has been alright defensively but even then he's much more advanced in position and not as disciplined when it comes to staying back. Lahm and Alaba on the other hand are very disciplined in staying back when they need to and bombing up at the right times. The double pivot makes them more stable, but it's unbelievably deluded to think that Alba+Alves is anywhere near Alaba+Lahm defensively.
So Tito starting Alves isn't preference? If Alves is performing worse, isn't is logical to give Montoya the chance? Face it, the coach prefers that player and that's why he's willing to give him so many chances to play despite being so poor. As for Lopetegui, I can't say for sure what causes him to play Montoya over Carvajal. Even if he thinks Montoya is better, that is too tiny a piece of evidence to rightfully conclude that Montoya>Carvajal overall.
jamrock
Senior Member
again to suggest alves can't defend is laughable if you then want to make your argument more solid by limiting alves career to this season, then fine he can't defend.
but since alves has been playing for years its laughable. when asked to defend he can do it excellently but that's not his game
but since alves has been playing for years its laughable. when asked to defend he can do it excellently but that's not his game
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Alves is not a great defender.
He gets back well as he has a good engine and in a race or left one on one he can defend quite well. But his decision making and positioning are not that great. Its pretty much the same with Alba.
The amount of times you see back post crosses scored against Barca and counter attacks exposing the space left by those two this season was a joke.
Home of Barca Fans
