Van Persie

[poltergeist]

Suarez overhyped? Suarez is closer to Messi than CR is. He is definitely better than RvP

 

[Unbiased United]

Suarez overhyped? Suarez is closer to Messi than CR is. He is definitely better than RvP

I'd love to know how you come to such a definitive conclusion as ''he is definitely better than RVP'' (and I'll ignore the CR bit to retain my sanity)

What are you basing it off exactly?

I mean if you said ''imo he's better than RVP'' then fair enough, but you say it with such conviction as though you are privy to some information the rest of us aren't. So lets have some perspective.

2011/2012-

RVP finishes the season with 30 goals, Suarez finishes with less than half that.

2012/2013-

Suarez is having easily his best Premier League season so far (excelling himself if you will) yet is still trailing 16-15 to RVP in the goal department. Plus RVP takes all United's corners etc, limiting his chances of scoring from positions strikers would usually find themselves on the recieving end of.


They are two excellent players, but I'm not really sure how any reasonable person can say ''he's definately better than RVP'', when if anything its pretty obvious he's not quite at RVP's level yet.

If Suarez was so good, he'd be playing for the likes of Barca or Real Madrid (I'd include United but Liverpool would obviously never let that happen) but as it happens, this season aside he obviously hasn't really done all that much yet to justify a move to a top team.

 

[estranged]

Suarez better than RvP No way, not right now at least. Comparing them right now is an insult to RvP. Suarez is good, but a bit over hyped and a self centered cunt to boot. At the moment I'd much rather have RvP but maybe Suarez could amount to more than RvP did since has so many more years of his career ahead of him. And regarding the 'La Liga fans have a chip on their shoulder about the EPL', the existence of that chip is well founded, at least if you've read thid forum long enough and take off your EPL tainted glasses. The EPL fans are the ones most frequently spewing mindless comparisons and starting this shit show. If anything, it's the English that have a chip on theri shoulder about Spanish footballing success over recent years.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

Suarez overhyped? Suarez is closer to Messi than CR is. He is definitely better than RvP

How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Smile]

A bit cringeworthy this post tbh mate.

There is a lot of anti-English/Premier League sentiment on these forums, and you are just banging your head against a brick wall trying to convince some people here than the Premier League is anything other than Sunday league pub football standard. However, this is a Barca forum and there is bound to be a more pro La Liga type attitude, so best thing is to just relax a bit when discussing things here (I know from experience!).

Your post is a bit blinkered even to me though dude (and I'm very much pro England/premier league), and was a bit harsh with the name calling considering he wasn't personal with you. We do have some good, exciting you talent coming through, unquestionably, but two years until we start competing at the very top? ...fair play that's your opinion but its hardly being 'blind/uneducated' to think it might take a good deal longer than that, if at all tbh.

In short, you make some good points, but come across a bit too, and you'll just get lots of stick for it.

But yeah, that Van Persie...top player.

I'm well aware there will be more pro-La Liga fans here, blinkered though?

I don't believe i have tried to hype England or British football into anything it's not and i don't believe i have said anything that isn't true.

No one is trying to cover up that England now are totally rubbish, but all i'm saying England minus last COULD compete in football terms and have always produced technically gifted players. Problem is the dark cloud over English football last 10 years it's easy to forget that, why is it blinkered to say i can see the clouds clearing up? Even DavidVillano1 (who my post was directed at) said the same thing more or less on how things are improving, what i disagreed with him was how he thinks things have always been all doom and gloom and that England have always played kick and rush football and so have it's clubs sides, they have not!

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

The English league is a more competitive league and therefore more interesting because of that. However, the quality of La Liga is far higher IMO and that is why I prefer it. I get very bored with people making comparisons all the time. Who cares? They both are what they are and in the end it is down to individual preference regarding which league you follow more closely.

 

[Smile]

People have their preferences as with anything in life. I don't get comparing leagues either, same as comparing players. Why cannot people just appreciate a quality player when they see one rather than comparing them to someone else saying 'that dad is bigger'.

 

[DavidVillano1]

A bit cringeworthy this post tbh mate.

Cringeworthy indeed.

The worst part about it, is I never slated the EPL(infact I went against the point about it being poor and quoted that post) and have openly admitted I watch it regularly. All that nonsense because he can't grasp the change in style recently, my god!

Majority of his post(and every other on here) is nonsense, it's obvious Smile is one of these media driven fans. Apparently if you don't rate the media driven superstar Beckham, you're a moron, deary me.

Was nice reading all those names he was on about for the future in England!

Beckham is god and Gerrard carried Liverpool for years, I can't comprehend someone who believes this guff then says he will educate another.

The EPL fans are the ones most frequently spewing mindless comparisons and starting this shit show. If anything, it's the English that have a chip on theri shoulder about Spanish footballing success over recent years.

Spot on.

Edited Not going to add a new post and ruin the thread, so will edit here. Is this guy a troll or just deluded? Does he even watch football?

Spoiler: @Smile

1 or 2 teams?

Wigan - Long ball team with the likes of Lee McCulloch, Marlon King, Jason Scotland, Mido. Martinez got rid of that style, made it more passing based and signed ball playing defenders instead the likes of Scharner and hatchet men like Cattermole were sold;
Chelsea - All about passing football, no more of the physical sides that Chelsea had for years lumping balls into Droga. Difference is massively clear;
City - Play more attractive football than they had attempted in the last 10 years;
Liverpool - Were often playing long balls into the likes of Heskey/Crouch to knock down for Owen etc. Played out wide to deliver crosses, last couple of seasons' the passing/movement is more key than crossing into box;
Everton - Although they still go long at times, it's pretty evident they play much nicer football than they've ever done under Moyes, sure he even commented on that as well recently;
WBA - Playing some of the best attacking football that they've done in years;
Aston Villa - Been poor to watch for years under O'Neil/McLeish, not getting the same type of results under Lambert but they play football with the youngsters;
Newcastle - Long ball team with Carroll, brought in technically gifted players in Cabaye, Ben Afra, Anita, Marveaux to replace the likes of Alan Smith, Nicky Butt, Joey Barton, Kevin Nolan. The change in play and style again is pretty obvious to someone who understands football.

Reading and QPR certainly play better football than Blackburn, Bolton and Wolves. Over the last 2-3 years the rapid change has been evident. Can't believe I've just wasted time making this post, when it will just go over Smile's head as he can't contemplate the situation and points.

 

[DavidVillano1]

On the Suarez debate.

Suarez can get only get better, whilst RVP has hit his top game over the last 18 months. Suarez is the better alround footballer, however RVP is the better striker.

Will Suarez ever go on a run such as RVP's on just now? I'm not fully convinced.

 

[Smile]

Cringeworthy indeed.

The worst part about it, is I never slated the EPL(infact I went against the point about it being poor and quoted that post) and have openly admitted I watch it regularly. All that nonsense because he can't grasp the change in style recently, my god!

Majority of his post(and every other on here) is nonsense, it's obvious Smile is one of these media driven fans. Apparently if you don't rate the media driven superstar Beckham, you're a moron, deary me.

Was nice reading all those names he was on about for the future in England!

Beckham is god and Gerrard carried Liverpool for years, I can't comprehend someone who believes this guff then says he will educate another.


Spot on.

There has been no change in style what the hell are you on? The English Premier League is still the same, a wide variety of styles why cannot that sink in?

Yes maybe 1 or 2 teams and England are looking at Spain and seeing what they are doing, just as all countries are, but the style is not changing. France cannot become Spain, Brazil cannot become Spain and England cannot become Spain and there will always be an element of ‘Englishness’ to an England team no matter who England produce and the English (British) style will always be play football/work hard/wing play and get stuck in, just as Brazil will always be skill and flare, these elements in a nations’s football will never change and rightfully so.

There is no right or wrong way to play football though, right now the Spainish passing build up play is the most successful, but it will not always be the case just as it wasn’t 10 years ago, 5 years samba flare may be king again. Then who’s the say the physical aspect of the game will then rise again and prevail over that? This is what football is all about and other styles is what you need to start appreciating more, something which you cannot seem to do reading your posts.

 

[Jenks]

I have to disagree with Smile. It's no fluke that England haven't produced any sort of volume of technically gifted players of late. It's party to do with the traditional style of English football not being that conducive to technical development, but mostly due to our utterly broken youth system. When the Premier League split from the FA and Lilleshall closed all direction was lost and development was left to the clubs. It was a disaster. The game never evolved as it should in England and it's only now that we're playing catch up. The EPPP, Future Game Document and St. George's Park go a long way to rectifying pretty much every problem we have, but I wouldn't expect them to yield a crop of new technically gifted playing for 10 years or so. In fact, given how much of a shambles the youth system is and practises at grass roots, it's a miracle that we have even the players that we do.

Spot on.

It isn't though. That's completely untrue. In threads all over this forum people will randomly slam the EPL when given even the vaguest of excuses.

 

[Smile]

I have to disagree with Smile. It's no fluke that England haven't produced any sort of volume of technically gifted players of late. It's party to do with the traditional style of English football not being that conducive to technical development, but mostly due to our utterly broken youth system. When the Premier League split from the FA and Lilleshall closed all direction was lost and development was left to the clubs. It was a disaster. The game never evolved as it should in England and it's only now that we're playing catch up. The EPPP, Future Game Document and St. George's Park go a long way to rectifying pretty much every problem we have, but I wouldn't expect them to yield a crop of new technically gifted playing for 10 years or so. In fact, given how much of a shambles the youth system is and practises at grass roots, it's a miracle that we have even the players that we do.


It isn't though. That's completely untrue. In threads all over this forum people will randomly slam the EPL when given even the vaguest of excuses.

The highlighted is exactly what i said :icon_neutral:

Britain will always produce technical/talented players, its about developing them and i believe that is something we haven't done for over a decade. Joe Cole was a victim of this, hugely talented player, never given the experence and the right coaching to develop how he should in the most important time of his development and because of this never turned out to be the player he should have become. What we've done with youth in the last 15 years in England is stick players in a paddling pool and then all of a sudden lobbed them straight in the sea before they can swim, then they end up drowning and then we are shocked. England have not only suffered because of this but the other home nations too hence why there have been no top Scottish/Welsh or Irish players last 15 years either because these countrys highly relied on the English leagues and clubs to produce their talent too.

Things are now being done right, just how it used to and hopefully England won't be the only ones who will benefit.

 

[Deco 20]

Bale would perhaps disagree

 

[Smile]

Bale had the experience in the lower leagues i was talking about and he's now seeing the rewards now that i've been talking about, just as Barcelona B players get the benefits for playing in the Spanish 2nd tier.

If Gareth Bale was a youngester a few years ago or if he never had experience before Spurs, his career wouldn't be how it is now. The loan system that is now widely used in English football makes up for players who never had experence in the lower leagues, big fan of it.

 

[Micah]

I'd love to know how you come to such a definitive conclusion as ''he is definitely better than RVP'' (and I'll ignore the CR bit to retain my sanity)

What are you basing it off exactly?

I mean if you said ''imo he's better than RVP'' then fair enough, but you say it with such conviction as though you are privy to some information the rest of us aren't. So lets have some perspective.

2011/2012-

RVP finishes the season with 30 goals, Suarez finishes with less than half that.

2012/2013-

Suarez is having easily his best Premier League season so far (excelling himself if you will) yet is still trailing 16-15 to RVP in the goal department. Plus RVP takes all United's corners etc, limiting his chances of scoring from positions strikers would usually find themselves on the recieving end of.


They are two excellent players, but I'm not really sure how any reasonable person can say ''he's definately better than RVP'', when if anything its pretty obvious he's not quite at RVP's level yet.

If Suarez was so good, he'd be playing for the likes of Barca or Real Madrid (I'd include United but Liverpool would obviously never let that happen) but as it happens, this season aside he obviously hasn't really done all that much yet to justify a move to a top team.

Suarez is only 25 is yet to hit reach his peak but he's already on-a-par or even better than RVP(who is easily at his peak right now).He's much clever with the ball and easily a better dribbler. Last season was his first for Liverpool and it's always going to be difficult to settle in to the PL, but still it was far from disastrous. How many seasons did it even take for RVP to perform consistently, if at all, he's being consistent only in the past 3 seasons. Why don't you go have look on that stats of his first 4 seasons.
Suarez has achieved more than what RVP has by his age, both at club and Interantional level. I definitely rate him better than RVP and he could only get better.

And about the big clubs not in for him is more to do with his willingness to stay in Liverpool, he has barely shown any signs about being unhappy there. And they all know Liverpool is not really a selling club, and even if they do, they make sure they get 50 million. It's not like Arsenal you know