World Cup 2022

[Luftstalag14]

Yes, the 'West' being journalists and football fans who were definitely involved in everything Europe did over the 'last thousands of years'.

What a great own against those colonialist, imperialist, scumbag journalists! I bet the guy who asked him that question invaded Iraq himself, right?

(The only thing he did is affirm he is just as bad as the people he criticises by drawing a parallel between Qatar and human rights atrocities).

So he is part of the establishment he criticises. Fuck him.

The same can be said of those Russian athletes banned only because of the scumbag Putin.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Is there an eastern hypocrisy, though?

Or you see it way clearer and more objective than us?
You never said anything against Russia (or Qatar), your every single reply is West this, West that, Usa bombed Iraq and Syria.

Are you as equally as hypocrit as us, only at the other side of the mirror?

First off, I don’t know what “eastern” here refers to. While “west” is a rather clearly defined cultural and geopolitical concept (Judeo-Christian, European and democratic) that most people understand the meaning of, people have varying ideas of what “east” means. In my opinion, there is no such thing as “the east”, as it is far from monolithic as the west. There is only the west and the rest of us in my opinion.

Of course, the rest of us, the non-west folks can be hypocritical, everyone is hypocritical. But I’d argue that the non-west folks are not on the same level as folks in the west when it comes to being hypocritical, the west wins that game hands down, 10:0. Because the west tends to preach a lot, they tend to impose their values and their beliefs on everyone else, they tend to tell others what they should do, at the same time they often don’t do exactly what they preach. You don’t see this often from the non-west folks. Therefore, to answer your question, no, the non-west folks are not as hypocritical as folks in the west.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Because the west tends to preach a lot, they tend to impose their values and their beliefs on everyone else, they tend to tell others what they should do

That is my take as well tbh, a lot of preach and imposing of culture.
A question can be asked whether other cultures would do the same if they were the dominant forces in economy and geopolitics.
Would argue many has that potential (including my own) but as it stands the West win it.

PS: I think we are talking from culture stand point, as BBZ is from Croatia and total-football from Morroco, who is at the Western side

 

[ajnotkeith]

The same can be said of those Russian athletes banned only because of the scumbag Putin.

It's true. It's not fair that Russian athletes are banned and stripped of earnings and progression in their careers because their government did something bad. They need to put food on their table and many of them will be struggling because of those restrictions, through no fault of their own.

Equally the same has not applied to Israeli athletes or Ethiopian athletes or other athletes who compete from countries with governments carrying out invasions. It's not an appropriate measure and has no precedent.

 

[Luftstalag14]

That is my take as well tbh, a lot of preach and imposing of culture.
A question can be asked whether other cultures would do the same if they were the dominant forces in economy and geopolitics.
Would argue many has that potential (including my own) but as it stands the West win it.

PS: I think we are talking from culture stand point, as BBZ is from Croatia and total-football from Morroco, who is at the Western side

To me one can be hypocritical when two things happen: (1) not doing what he/she is preaching and (2) having double standards, one set for myself and my friends and another set for people that I don't like. The west does both a lot and the non-west does (2) sometimes, as they usually don't preach others that much.

I know BBZ was talking from a cultural standpoint, but even in the cultural realm I'd say there is no such thing as "the east". Africa with a lot of varying differences within can be east, Asia (startling differences between west, central, south and east Asia) can be east, South America can be east (perhaps, not sure). There are so different one from another, grouping all of them under "the east" from a cultural standpoint makes little sense, in my opinion.

 

[Luftstalag14]

It's true. It's not fair that Russian athletes are banned and stripped of earnings and progression in their careers because their government did something bad. They need to put food on their table and many of them will be struggling because of those restrictions, through no fault of their own.

Equally the same has not applied to Israeli athletes or Ethiopian athletes or other athletes who compete from countries with governments carrying out invasions. It's not an appropriate measure and has no precedent.

Agreed. Especially those para-Olympians and para-athletes, I feel especially bad for them being punished and banned.

 

[Laplacian]

First off, I don’t know what “eastern” here refers to. While “west” is a rather clearly defined cultural and geopolitical concept (Judeo-Christian, European and democratic) that most people understand the meaning of, people have varying ideas of what “east” means. In my opinion, there is no such thing as “the east”, as it is far from monolithic as the west. There is only the west and the rest of us in my opinion.

Of course, the rest of us, the non-west folks can be hypocritical, everyone is hypocritical. But I’d argue that the non-west folks are not on the same level as folks in the west when it comes to being hypocritical, the west wins that game hands down, 10:0. Because the west tends to preach a lot, they tend to impose their values and their beliefs on everyone else, they tend to tell others what they should do, at the same time they often don’t do exactly what they preach. You don’t see this often from the non-west folks. Therefore, to answer your question, no, the non-west folks are not as hypocritical as folks in the west.

But let's talk about specifics: the controversies surrounding the Qatar world cup is usually related to LGBT+ issues and labour rights for migrant workers. Are Westerners really hypocrites in this regard? Last time I checked the best countries to live in if you are one a migrant/immigrant, or two a homosexual/trans person, these places are usually in the West. It's not perfect, far from it (with some countries like Australia or the US having fucked up practices), but the best countries to live in if you are in these vulnerable groups are in the West. Of course, your retorts can't possibly include anything close to "but Westerners hate gay people too" because you know you'd be wrong - so derailing the conversation into colonialism, how Westerners are uptight and preachy, invasions in Iraq, and so on is the preferred tactic; anything to detract from the actual topic at hand regarding institutional homophobia and government sanctioned slavery in Qatar. Notice how your post says nothing specific about Qatar (which is the topic at hand), and just pointless platitudes about the hypocrital West?

It's just literally obfuscation tactics. One loved by Infatino, Total-Football, and a few others in this forum who can't for the lives of them approach specific issues without projecting their feelings of resentment towards the West.

 

[Messigician]

But let's talk about specifics: the controversies surrounding the Qatar world cup is usually related to LGBT+ issues and labour rights for migrant workers. Are Westerners really hypocrites in this regard? Last time I checked the best countries to live in if you are one a migrant/immigrant, and a homosexual/trans person are usually in the West. It's not perfect, far from it (with some countries like Australia or the US having fucked up practices), but the best countries to live if you are in these vulnerable groups are in the West.

Also very convenient when "Westerners" call this out, the retort is always ambiguous generalizations or references to issues that are unrelated to the matter (like the Iraq war, or whatever). Same tactic Infatino and Total-Football like to use; when institutional homophobia is called out instead of addressing it, it always turns into a dick measuring contest about how evil the West is because of [insert unrelated issue here].

Bad take

 

[Luftstalag14]

But let's talk about specifics: the controversies surrounding the Qatar world cup is usually related to LGBT+ issues and labour rights for migrant workers. Are Westerners really hypocrites in this regard? Last time I checked the best countries to live in if you are one a migrant/immigrant, and a homosexual/trans person are usually in the West. It's not perfect, far from it (with some countries like Australia or the US having fucked up practices), but the best countries to live if you are in these vulnerable groups are in the West.

I don't think the west is hypocritical to talk about LGBT+ issues and labor rights for migrant workers, in general. While things are not perfect in the west, we all know western countries are doing much better on these issues compared to non-western countries. So here I don't think it is an issue of hypocrisy, rather it is the optics, that aggressive, imposing posture from the west demanding Qatar to do so and so that upsets many. I think these are all legitimate issues, the west can nudge the Qataris or whoever the target country is to change, being too aggressive and pushy will only have the opposite effect (just imagine if you are being told by someone to change your behavior, if that person keeps nagging and lecturing you, you might get pissed off and do exactly what that person doesn't want you to do).

Infantino was right when he said reform and change take time, when it took the west hundreds of years to achieve things, the only way to do is by engaging. Being punitive and carrying a big stick (if you don't what I ask you to do I am going to punish you) won't do it. I absolutely agree with him on that.

Also very convenient when "Westerners" call this out, the retort is always ambiguous generalizations or references to issues that are unrelated to the matter (like the Iraq war, or whatever). Same tactic Infatino and Total-Football like to use; when institutional homophobia is called out instead of addressing it, it always turns into a dick measuring contest about how evil the West is because of [insert unrelated issue here].

Because everybody, including westerners are defensive about oneself. Again, if someone keeps telling you what have done wrong and what you need to do, you get defensive and you talk and act defensively.

 

[Total-Football]

Its hard to maintain sane conversations if our analysis stays on "scratch the surface " level. Any intellectual exchange that is bound with that level of thinking is just fruitless and useless. Lots of people from the west do not see beyond the lure of the surface and the immediacy without every questioning how things come about and where they are going in relation to the present status quo. Any type of insight completely detached from an Eagle point of view is just surface scratching. Won't bother beating a dead horse I will just leave it at this question for the critical mind.can anyone with a trace of grey matter really think that the "sympathy" the west has for Iranian women currently is genuine ? I'm not going to respond. And I'm not necessarily questioning the average Joes/ Janes caught up in the wave and who are trapped in the immediacy of western Mass media and the machinery behind it.

 

[BBZ8800]

really think that the "sympathy" the west has for Iranian women currently is genuine?

Let us know the answer.
Why is West on side with Iranian women?

 

[El Gato]

can anyone with a trace of grey matter really think that the "sympathy" the west has for Iranian women currently is genuine ? I'm not going to respond. And I'm not necessarily questioning the average Joes/ Janes caught up in the wave and who are trapped in the immediacy of western Mass media and the machinery behind it.

Why would the sympathy of an average Joe not be genuine?
If what you mean is "what does the west really do about it" the answer is much clearer - they can't do shit other than talk about it. Not their jurisdiction

 

[Laplacian]

Let us know the answer.
Why is West on side with Iranian women?

You know the answer: the "West" only cares because supporting the emancipation of Iranian women because it destabilizes an important geopolitical enemy in the middle east. He can't possibly fathom that entire nation states actually have cultures that prioritize the rights and well beings of people of all creeds and colours.

It's the ultimate projection from countries with authoritarian regimes.

 

[Porque]

Remember the time Jimmy Hill equated racism to people making fun of his big chin?

Infartino just done a Jimmy Hill.

 

[Total-Football]

Why would the sympathy of an average Joe not be genuine?
If what you mean is "what does the west really do about it" the answer is much clearer - they can't do shit other than talk about it. Not their jurisdiction

That's what I said if u paid attention .I said the average joes are caught up in much broader malicious patterns inadvertently and that in their mind its indeed genuine sympathy.