Xavi Hernández

[Raed]

I don't think the fact that Messi and Alves weren't playing alongside Xavi is the reason why they weren't at their best with their national teams.
Factors such as having idiots for coaches, playing with teams that have very poor tactical structure, and playing alongside players that rarely ever played together had much more effect than just Xavi not being there...

Spain don't suffer any of the above disadvantages...

Xavi is awesome and all, but not everything that goes wrong when he's not there is attributed to his absence...

The moment they had to do a little bit more than normal made them look like shit. Alves loses the ball with Brazil all the time, mistimes and shit crosses, and woeful defending. Why? Because Xavi isn't there to pass the ball to him into space near the end of the field, or play a nice one two with him that skips 10-20 yards easy.

Messi on the other hand runs a lot with Barcelona, but mostly vertical runs, now that he has to dribble left right and center and still needs to go another 20 yards to get to the goal, all his ability in the world has yielded shit results.

Pique, Puyol and Busquets are lucky to have him there to protect them for long minutes as he controls possession. The only player I see that is completely independent is Iniesta, but even then, when Xavi passes we will see how can control games for long stretches. Put Pedro on any other team in the world except Villareal and he would look a merely good player, Xavi makes him that much more important.

Yes, coaches are idiots for both Argentina and Brazil, and they are twats too, but when on the pitch the coach can't do much, he can't control the ball for the players. Its not Mano's fault that Dani Alves got beat every minute of the game and got found out, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't cross or carry the ball, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't provide compatible width with his forwards. Similarly, Messi without Xavi has taken too much onto himself, and he looked overwhelmed. That should put things into perspective, the best player in the world, twice, for all the talent in the world couldn't come close to El Maestro.

See I don't particularly enjoy Xavi's football as much as I enjoy others, say Iniesta, but what is fascinating about him is the paradox behind his style. He is so generous with the ball, yet spends the most time on it. Normally, the more a player spends time on the ball, the more chance he would lose it, yet Xavi is the other way, the longer he is on it, the longer he can keep it.

Each half is only 45 minutes long, and time flies by so quickly, when everyone is getting more and more anxious, Xavi becomes more patient, to disturbing levels but the amount of responsibility he takes upon himself is usually unappreciated which is sad because his exceptional assists aren't even his best trait. His defensive contribution, through ball control, frees Alves and his offensive support ignites Messi. When Xavi is playing behind Messi, the latter is enabled. Without Xavi, Messi is preoccupied and looks a shadow of himself.

Not to mention, the amount of shit Xavi tells the referees every game to allow his team mates to catch a breathe, LOL!

Alves is more of a system-dependent player than I had initially thought, and Messi isn't near the best in history as he has more things to learn in football, mentally speaking.

 

[Aryagorn]

Raed

Brilliant post

 

[xaviniesta]

The moment they had to do a little bit more than normal made them look like shit. Alves loses the ball with Brazil all the time, mistimes and shit crosses, and woeful defending. Why? Because Xavi isn't there to pass the ball to him into space near the end of the field, or play a nice one two with him that skips 10-20 yards easy.

Messi on the other hand runs a lot with Barcelona, but mostly vertical runs, now that he has to dribble left right and center and still needs to go another 20 yards to get to the goal, all his ability in the world has yielded shit results.

Pique, Puyol and Busquets are lucky to have him there to protect them for long minutes as he controls possession. The only player I see that is completely independent is Iniesta, but even then, when Xavi passes we will see how can control games for long stretches. Put Pedro on any other team in the world except Villareal and he would look a merely good player, Xavi makes him that much more important.

Yes, coaches are idiots for both Argentina and Brazil, and they are twats too, but when on the pitch the coach can't do much, he can't control the ball for the players. Its not Mano's fault that Dani Alves got beat every minute of the game and got found out, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't cross or carry the ball, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't provide compatible width with his forwards. Similarly, Messi without Xavi has taken too much onto himself, and he looked overwhelmed. That should put things into perspective, the best player in the world, twice, for all the talent in the world couldn't come close to El Maestro.

See I don't particularly enjoy Xavi's football as much as I enjoy others, say Iniesta, but what is fascinating about him is the paradox behind his style. He is so generous with the ball, yet spends the most time on it. Normally, the more a player spends time on the ball, the more chance he would lose it, yet Xavi is the other way, the longer he is on it, the longer he can keep it.

Each half is only 45 minutes long, and time flies by so quickly, when everyone is getting more and more anxious, Xavi becomes more patient, to disturbing levels but the amount of responsibility he takes upon himself is usually unappreciated which is sad because his exceptional assists aren't even his best trait. His defensive contribution, through ball control, frees Alves and his offensive support ignites Messi. When Xavi is playing behind Messi, the latter is enabled. Without Xavi, Messi is preoccupied and looks a shadow of himself.

Not to mention, the amount of shit Xavi tells the referees every game to allow his team mates to catch a breathe, LOL!

Alves is more of a system-dependent player than I had initially thought, and Messi isn't near the best in history as he has more things to learn in football, mentally speaking.

messi is nothing without xaviniesta, pique and puyol don't have to defend in barca, valdes is just a spectator, alves can't do shit without his teammates, xavi whines all the time, iniesta is a little diver, not to tell busquets, guardiola is lucky to have all those players.

international football is overrated and football is a TEAM sport, not individual.

 

[Raed]

messi is nothing without xaviniesta, pique and puyol don't have to defend in barca, valdes is just a spectator, alves can't do shit without his teammates, xavi whines all the time, iniesta is a little diver, not to tell busquets, guardiola is lucky to have all those players.

international football is overrated and football is a TEAM sport, not individual.

I am not sure I get your point.

 

[mitkoa7x]

Obvious sarcasm is obvious...

 

[Metaphysical]

Messi is balls out magnificent. fact is for Argentina he finds himself having to do his own job AND Xavi's job. and that's not his choice, that's what has to happen given the ridiculous teams these idiots put out. now he makes a good go of it, but mostly at the cost of his own natural game. in effect, he becomes Argentina's Xavi.

the thing is, Argentina have Aguero, so could actually use Messi in that capacity and not lose all their edge in the final third. but they don't use Aguero well enough to do this. maybe Sabella will change all that, or maybe he'll construct a system that gets Messi the ball further up the pitch, so he can play his natural game rather than having to "Xavi it." and that would be the ideal scenario.

Yes, coaches are idiots for both Argentina and Brazil, and they are twats too, but when on the pitch the coach can't do much, he can't control the ball for the players. Its not Mano's fault that Dani Alves got beat every minute of the game and got found out, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't cross or carry the ball, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't provide compatible width with his forwards.

exceeeeept Dani did all that last night for Brazil. and did it all for Sevilla for years (making them one of, if not the, best teams in the World in mid-2007).

all this criticism of Dani comes from the fact that he played poorly against Paraguay. but then so did Maicon. the difference between them was that Dani was average against a dogged Venezuela (semi-finalists, probs woulda been finalists were it not for a harsh red card to Rincon in the QF), whereas Maicon ran riot against a poor Ecuador (exited the group stages with just 1 point).

Xavi is amazing(ly amazing and wondrous), but chill the fuck out.

 

[Hamzah]

can't they just use cambiasso, banega or pastore in xavi's role?

 

[Metaphysical]

can't they just use cambiasso, banega or pastore in xavi's role?

no, no, and yes. but for some reason successive coaches haven't. let's hope Sabella does.

although it would be Xavi's role, not his position, because in Argentine football his position doesn't really exist.

 

[La Furia]

The moment they had to do a little bit more than normal made them look like shit. Alves loses the ball with Brazil all the time, mistimes and shit crosses, and woeful defending. Why? Because Xavi isn't there to pass the ball to him into space near the end of the field, or play a nice one two with him that skips 10-20 yards easy.

Messi on the other hand runs a lot with Barcelona, but mostly vertical runs, now that he has to dribble left right and center and still needs to go another 20 yards to get to the goal, all his ability in the world has yielded shit results.

Pique, Puyol and Busquets are lucky to have him there to protect them for long minutes as he controls possession. The only player I see that is completely independent is Iniesta, but even then, when Xavi passes we will see how can control games for long stretches. Put Pedro on any other team in the world except Villareal and he would look a merely good player, Xavi makes him that much more important.

Yes, coaches are idiots for both Argentina and Brazil, and they are twats too, but when on the pitch the coach can't do much, he can't control the ball for the players. Its not Mano's fault that Dani Alves got beat every minute of the game and got found out, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't cross or carry the ball, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't provide compatible width with his forwards. Similarly, Messi without Xavi has taken too much onto himself, and he looked overwhelmed. That should put things into perspective, the best player in the world, twice, for all the talent in the world couldn't come close to El Maestro.

See I don't particularly enjoy Xavi's football as much as I enjoy others, say Iniesta, but what is fascinating about him is the paradox behind his style. He is so generous with the ball, yet spends the most time on it. Normally, the more a player spends time on the ball, the more chance he would lose it, yet Xavi is the other way, the longer he is on it, the longer he can keep it.

Each half is only 45 minutes long, and time flies by so quickly, when everyone is getting more and more anxious, Xavi becomes more patient, to disturbing levels but the amount of responsibility he takes upon himself is usually unappreciated which is sad because his exceptional assists aren't even his best trait. His defensive contribution, through ball control, frees Alves and his offensive support ignites Messi. When Xavi is playing behind Messi, the latter is enabled. Without Xavi, Messi is preoccupied and looks a shadow of himself.

Not to mention, the amount of shit Xavi tells the referees every game to allow his team mates to catch a breathe, LOL!

Alves is more of a system-dependent player than I had initially thought, and Messi isn't near the best in history as he has more things to learn in football, mentally speaking.

I have to agree with most of this, was actually able to get through your rant in one sitting this time.

But not enjoying Xavi's football? For shame!

 

[mitkoa7x]

tl;dr especialy for a madritista...

 

[Catalonian Devil]

The moment they had to do a little bit more than normal made them look like shit. Alves loses the ball with Brazil all the time, mistimes and shit crosses, and woeful defending. Why? Because Xavi isn't there to pass the ball to him into space near the end of the field, or play a nice one two with him that skips 10-20 yards easy.

Messi on the other hand runs a lot with Barcelona, but mostly vertical runs, now that he has to dribble left right and center and still needs to go another 20 yards to get to the goal, all his ability in the world has yielded shit results.

Pique, Puyol and Busquets are lucky to have him there to protect them for long minutes as he controls possession. The only player I see that is completely independent is Iniesta, but even then, when Xavi passes we will see how can control games for long stretches. Put Pedro on any other team in the world except Villareal and he would look a merely good player, Xavi makes him that much more important.

Yes, coaches are idiots for both Argentina and Brazil, and they are twats too, but when on the pitch the coach can't do much, he can't control the ball for the players. Its not Mano's fault that Dani Alves got beat every minute of the game and got found out, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't cross or carry the ball, its not Mano's fault that Alves can't provide compatible width with his forwards. Similarly, Messi without Xavi has taken too much onto himself, and he looked overwhelmed. That should put things into perspective, the best player in the world, twice, for all the talent in the world couldn't come close to El Maestro.

See I don't particularly enjoy Xavi's football as much as I enjoy others, say Iniesta, but what is fascinating about him is the paradox behind his style. He is so generous with the ball, yet spends the most time on it. Normally, the more a player spends time on the ball, the more chance he would lose it, yet Xavi is the other way, the longer he is on it, the longer he can keep it.

Each half is only 45 minutes long, and time flies by so quickly, when everyone is getting more and more anxious, Xavi becomes more patient, to disturbing levels but the amount of responsibility he takes upon himself is usually unappreciated which is sad because his exceptional assists aren't even his best trait. His defensive contribution, through ball control, frees Alves and his offensive support ignites Messi. When Xavi is playing behind Messi, the latter is enabled. Without Xavi, Messi is preoccupied and looks a shadow of himself.

Not to mention, the amount of shit Xavi tells the referees every game to allow his team mates to catch a breathe, LOL!

Alves is more of a system-dependent player than I had initially thought, and Messi isn't near the best in history as he has more things to learn in football, mentally speaking.

First of all Xavi is a fucking beast...

Next I think you're extremely overrating his effect on some of our players in you post. Don't get me wrong he is very important and I totally agree with the portion of your post regarding his style and I like the way you broke it down. However, Alves being shit with Brazil in the Copa wasn't due to Xavi bro, even if Xavi was there, his crossing would still have been shit, and his defensive blunders would've still been there. Xavi might've helped Brazil as a whole if he was there and hence Alves might've had more chances to do something, but Alves on the individual level had a poor Copa, simple as.

Messi trying to take over Xavi's role should not be attributed to Xavi not being there, but the coach being a damn idiot and repeating the same mistake his junkie predecessor did. They simply fail to utilize their squad in a way that would free Messi from having to attempt to carry the whole fucking team, which is a bit too heavy for his back. Not every team must have a 'Xavi', there were many formations and tactical plans that were suggested in our very own Argentina thread that, I would bet some money on it, would've relieved Messi off some of the unrealistic pressure and allowed him to do his thing.
The truth is that Messi wasn't trying to be Argentina's Xavi, he was trying to be Argentina's Messavi, which is a tad too much, but we all know how Messi is.

Completely disagree about Pedro. Its his unreal workrate and amazing clutchness that makes him unique, and overshadows his rather 'limited abilities' relatively speaking when speaking about Barcelona. Xavi definitely helps him shine as he does with everyone, but that's definitely not what makes Pedro an above average player.

Another essential factor is that Messi and Alves sometimes tend to struggle because they are playing in a completely different system with their national teams. The Spanish players play a simillar style with their national so its much easier to get into their groove for them. Its not just Xavi bro, its a whole system, Xavi is a part of that system, and even Xavi himself will not be his same commanding self if he played in a team that plays with a different approach. The way we play the game in itself helps make Xavi what he is, our system takes advantage of every single quality Xavi has, which is why he owes Pep so much.

I don't believe Xavi is the heart of our team, but rather the pacemaker...

 

[estranged]

Messi is balls out magnificent. fact is for Argentina he finds himself having to do his own job AND Xavi's job. and that's not his choice, that's what has to happen given the ridiculous teams these idiots put out. now he makes a good go of it, but mostly at the cost of his own natural game. in effect, he becomes Argentina's Xavi.

the thing is, Argentina have Aguero, so could actually use Messi in that capacity and not lose all their edge in the final third. but they don't use Aguero well enough to do this. maybe Sabella will change all that, or maybe he'll construct a system that gets Messi the ball further up the pitch, so he can play his natural game rather than having to "Xavi it." and that would be the ideal scenario.



exceeeeept Dani did all that last night for Brazil. and did it all for Sevilla for years (making them one of, if not the, best teams in the World in mid-2007).

all this criticism of Dani comes from the fact that he played poorly against Paraguay. but then so did Maicon. the difference between them was that Dani was average against a dogged Venezuela (semi-finalists, probs woulda been finalists were it not for a harsh red card to Rincon in the QF), whereas Maicon ran riot against a poor Ecuador (exited the group stages with just 1 point).

Xavi is amazing(ly amazing and wondrous), but chill the fuck out.

Exactly. Sevilla was all about Alves from 2006-08, and there was no Xavi or Iniesta around then. Messi was ass raping Chelsea and Real Madrid without Xaviesta on the pitch (2005, 2006, 2007 el classico)....so not sure where Raed is coming from.
Messi's problem in Argentina is not simply the absence of Xavi, its the total absence of a midfield and general team structure, he has to be himself, Xavi and Iniesta at the same time. Not to mention their DM's over the last few major tournaments (lady Gago and Veron who couldn't even run)...when Messi had to drop back constantly to help that labored cunt catch a breath, I can't see how and why people expected him to do more offensive work.
And Dani still has defensive blunders, missed passes and poor crosses at Barca with Xavi on the pitch too so....

But not enjoying Xavi's football? For shame!

It takes a man of refined taste to enjoy Xavi's football.

 

[Chainsaw]

How much Xaviniesta was needed there to rape Real Madrid defence?!

 

[estranged]

How much Xaviniesta was needed there to rape Real Madrid defence?!

Or even better

 

[Raed]

Messi is balls out magnificent. A fact I disputed? No sir not at all.

fact is for Argentina he finds himself having to do his own job AND Xavi's job. and that's not his choice, that's what has to happen given the ridiculous teams these idiots put out. now he makes a good go of it, but mostly at the cost of his own natural game. in effect, he becomes Argentina's Xavi.
If what you say is true, Messi becomes Argentina's Xavi, then that is just to show you how magnificent Xavi is at his role with half of Messi's natural ability. My point exactly

the thing is, Argentina have Aguero, so could actually use Messi in that capacity and not lose all their edge in the final third. but they don't use Aguero well enough to do this. maybe Sabella will change all that, or maybe he'll construct a system that gets Messi the ball further up the pitch, so he can play his natural game rather than having to "Xavi it." and that would be the ideal scenario.

I hope so, because you know damn well how much I wanted to see Argentina's fearsome attacking trident. I still maintain if they can get thier shit together, Di Maria Aguero/Higuain Messi would be the best forward line in history



exceeeeept Dani did all that last night for Brazil. and did it all for Sevilla for years (making them one of, if not the, best teams in the World in mid-2007).
Dani was and is magnificent in a well rehearsed and finely tuned system, as was Sevilla's and now Barcelona's. He doesn't have the capacity to continually lead an attack, like Maicon when he was...But let us leave it at that, we both know we agree yet see/express it differently

all this criticism of Dani comes from the fact that he played poorly against Paraguay. but then so did Maicon. the difference between them was that Dani was average against a dogged Venezuela (semi-finalists, probs woulda been finalists were it not for a harsh red card to Rincon in the QF), whereas Maicon ran riot against a poor Ecuador (exited the group stages with just 1 point).
All? This is hardly the first year Dani gets questioned when playing for the Brazilian national team.

Xavi is amazing(ly amazing and wondrous), but chill the fuck out.
I am so chill, you know that

Its your boys who run riots

.