Xavi Hernández

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Kul_z

Senior Member
Really?

5-1 vs Madrid wirhout Messi

Valverde era

Undefeated in league vs Real, Atletico, and other big teams

Post Valverde
0 wins

Where's the individual quality then?

Valverde made Lenglet look world class

Valverde made that amigo atmosphere possible, and right then we had couple of world class players and messi. When they let their 'guard' down they experienced 5 in the net from levante. Fucking levante. Point is, ev pulled the best out of seniors because they showed grattitude in matches that were low stake games,(read liga) but created mental midgets when it mattered(read cl and copa). That sevilla thrashing in cup final was exception but seeing goalscorers (suarez x2 , messi, iniesta, coutinho) and that that game was week or two after roma cl defeat you can clearly see what actually happened and drive/motivation behind that.

Xavi's biggest win would be to implement winning mentality, we lack a ton of those, thanks to ev :)
 

vegitot

Senior Member
Valverde made that amigo atmosphere possible, and right then we had couple of world class players and messi. When they let their 'guard' down they experienced 5 in the net from levante. Fucking levante. Point is, ev pulled the best out of seniors because they showed grattitude in matches that were low stake games,(read liga) but created mental midgets when it mattered(read cl and copa). That sevilla thrashing in cup final was exception but seeing goalscorers (suarez x2 , messi, iniesta, coutinho) and that that game was week or two after roma cl defeat you can clearly see what actually happened and drive/motivation behind that.

Xavi's biggest win would be to implement winning mentality, we lack a ton of those, thanks to ev :)

A season before under Lucho, PSG smashed 4 goals past Barca and next game Juventus with who, smashed 3 goals :)

I suppose if Xavi fails to finish in top 4 or loses to Benfica, it is EV or Koeman's faults, right???

Such loser mentality. Hope Xavi will not inject things like we can lose 0-7 but must have 60% ball possesion.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Valverde made that amigo atmosphere possible, and right then we had couple of world class players and messi. When they let their 'guard' down they experienced 5 in the net from levante. Fucking levante. Point is, ev pulled the best out of seniors because they showed grattitude in matches that were low stake games,(read liga) but created mental midgets when it mattered(read cl and copa). That sevilla thrashing in cup final was exception but seeing goalscorers (suarez x2 , messi, iniesta, coutinho) and that that game was week or two after roma cl defeat you can clearly see what actually happened and drive/motivation behind that.

Xavi's biggest win would be to implement winning mentality, we lack a ton of those, thanks to ev :)

Nah, EV didn't create that poor mentality. It was there IMO for a good few years before EV game. He just couldn't change anything much. When EV came we were a steady league team scoring many goals and winning titles, and we had issues in CL (remember 0-4 vs PSG and 0-3 vs Juve). During EV, we were the same, very good and steady in the league, trashed in Europe.

He didn't make us worse per se, but he lost us 3 years nearly of not really fixing anything. But Bartomeu was more to blame than him.
 

serghei

Senior Member
A season before under Lucho, PSG smashed 4 goals past Barca and next game Juventus with who, smashed 3 goals :)

I suppose if Xavi fails to finish in top 4 or loses to Benfica, it is EV or Koeman's faults, right???

Such loser mentality. Hope Xavi will not inject things like we can lose 0-7 but must have 60% ball possesion.

I agree here. EV took over a good league team with a loser's syndrome in CL already set in. The issue is EV Barca was similar to that, he didn't improve much. We were still a steady league side with loser's complex in CL.

So, I fail to see what his big impact was. He just patched things up decently and that's it. Same underlying problems kept showing up in the biggest moments while had didn't do anything about them.
 

kattanib

Well-known member
In less than 24 Months we have fallen from: sack EV even though he is on top of the table, because he is not playing eyepleasing.

To: winning is not the objective, top4 is.

Interesting

Top 4 is a milestone. Why do you support Barca btw? You dislike how the club is running and you dislike the clubs philosophy and you dislike the club fans desires and ideas .. you are supporting the wrong club
 

Kul_z

Senior Member
A season before under Lucho, PSG smashed 4 goals past Barca and next game Juventus with who, smashed 3 goals :)

I suppose if Xavi fails to finish in top 4 or loses to Benfica, it is EV or Koeman's faults, right???

Such loser mentality. Hope Xavi will not inject things like we can lose 0-7 but must have 60% ball possesion.

No, im not one of those if they exist that would put blame on ev or koemann, but to criticise what and when in my opinion went wrong. Under lucho we let 4 from psg but we had winning mentality(lady luck you have to provoke it) and turned it around, cant imagine that happening under ev. But you are right, amigo atmosphere begun under lucho when you rewatch the games, our seniors tought that they were godsend and more or less can see why lucho was gone.

Same narrative can be said about ev being a 'master' of his craft that he wouldnt experience a 8-2 from bayern, but put ev instead of lucho in that bayern 2015 semifinal, i think we would talk about another choke job considering that benatia scored in fifth minute. What would happen if it happened, childs play ffs, spit facts.

Give me one encounter under ev that was kill or be killed that we won. He could become immortal if we won against levante but we choked when it became viral that we could become 'invincibles' with only 2 games left. See the pattern?

I have only 1 thing against koemann, he is just mediocre but grateful for developing pedri and intoducing a fair amount of youngsters. But his constant narrative that our players are not good enough is fucking tragedy. Thats not how you build winning mentality and bond with players.

I dont know if xavi is up to task, but again, in my opinion i believe he is and refuse to think otherwise for now, time will tell.

And stop exaggerating things like we lost 7-0 but we had posession, because that happened in two games and that season was exception not the rule.
 

Kul_z

Senior Member
Nah, EV didn't create that poor mentality. It was there IMO for a good few years before EV game. He just couldn't change anything much. When EV came we were a steady league team scoring many goals and winning titles, and we had issues in CL (remember 0-4 vs PSG and 0-3 vs Juve). During EV, we were the same, very good and steady in the league, trashed in Europe.

He didn't make us worse per se, but he lost us 3 years nearly of not really fixing anything. But Bartomeu was more to blame than him.

I think we had a plenty of winning mentality in lucho era, but amigos took over and its not a coincidence that he stepped back in that season, he lost control on dressing room.
 

kattanib

Well-known member
*10 CHANGES THAT XAVI WOULD LIKE TO IMPLEMENT:*

*1. The players must be an hour and a half before training:* The goal is to have time to prepare for training sessions and to be able to make some individual talks.

*2. The staff must appear two hours before training:* The aim would be to have everything ready to start the session when the players start to arrive.

*3. The players eat at the Ciutat Esportiva:* The players of the first team have to eat lunch in the dining room of the Blaugrana facilities under the parameters set by the club's nutritionists. A correct diet can prevent injuries and improve physical preparation.

*4. Fines are instituted:* The truth that footballers are professional enough to know what they have and what they don't have to do can work in ideal scenario and in real life it is complicated. Xavi wants to establish a rules like Guardiola which ended up bearing fruit soon.

*5. Exponential sanctions:* The fines will be fixed with a geometric rhythm and not an arithmetic oneThat means that if a player is late for training he would pay the lightest penalty, 100 euros, to the second, it would be 200, to third penalty it would be 400 and so on.

*6. 48 hours before a game you cannot be home late:* When the team is two days away from playing a game, it is prohibited to arrive after midnight. It is considered that the player must be aware that he has to arrive at the game in the best possible condition.

*7. Meritocracy:* You play like you train and meritocracy is the only way to success. Only those who train the best and who have the most commitment at work will have options to be starters. The rest will suck the bench or in the worst case, they will not be summoned.

*8. Control of extra-sports activities:* Footballers can have other activities that are not strictly football, but if these end up affecting their performance, by needing to travel or dedicate many hours, they will have to be supervised by the coaching staff.

*9. Prohibited risk activities:* No more seeing a player surfing or riding an electric bike. This type of practice is sanctioned as a very serious offense and would pass to the legal department as it is considered a flagrant breach of the contract.

*10. Good image:* Payers are a fundamental part of the club and they have to be the first to set an example. Empathic with fans must be shown and reprehensible attitudes are prohibited. During the trips they must comply with the rules of conduct and encourage Barcelona all times.
 

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
In less than 24 Months we have fallen from: sack EV even though he is on top of the table, because he is not playing eyepleasing.

To: winning is not the objective, top4 is.

Interesting
You're such a dishonest twat.
Retardos squatting ass was dragged to domestic titles by Messis brilliance and his squad, albeit aging was still serviceable for that.
Current situation is full blown generation change, total overhaul after the "golden generation" and "Messi era". It should've started much earlier, namely in Valverdes tenure at latest, but it didn't so sinking Titanic it is (sinking for close to 10 years now). We're now trying to compete with other cruise ships, while paddling in the sink boats. Get a perspective and stop yapping your boring contrarian rubbish for once.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
He simply asked between tittles but less Barca DNA style and Barca DNA style but no tittle, which one should you go for.

Even if EV won the treble, he would still be hated by Barca fans. Because no DNA.

Bbz is right about one thing, if Xavi takes over from beginning, people will still talk about top 4 and say he will have several seasons to build the team. Let's say, if Koeman or other coaches fail to finish in top 4, he will be cursed forever but it won't happen to Xavi.

Not sure about Laporta cause i think he prefers other coaches over Xavi.

Thanks.
Other guys didn't get my point/question.

It is not about EV at all, but about Barca DNA and principles.

One thing which is baffling to me is that, imo, among Barca fans who started to follow Barca under Pep, their principles are different.

Among those fans, the obssession with beautiful play is way stronger.
Obssession with La Masia is way stronger.
Cult following of Pep is way stronger.
There is way higher optimism about Xavi.

On the other hand, for older fans, lets say me, Khaled, Joan, even you Vegitot and similar:
There is less obssession about pure Pep's style.
Those guys are less desperate on La Masia.
Those guys are more open to new styles, away from Barca DNA.
Those guys don't mind results with ugly play (EV).

I would say that among guys who started to follow Barca around 2008 or later, there are imo 80% of Barca-Dna hardcore fans.
While among fans who followed Barca in 80s, 90s or 00s, it is more like 50:50.
Some guys don't care about Barca DNA (like me), and some are hardcore Cruijffistas.

Even if you cover the names of posters with your hand, after reading a few posts on any youngster, Pep, Xavi, EV or Rakitic/Pailinho (or Arthur, lol), majority of posters have the same opinion about this topics (either left or right).

And after reading optimism and hype from fans about Xavi who talks about 343 or how there won't be any debates about style, it is more and more clear that Barca will dance on the same place for the next 10 or 20 years.

Pep's era, as can be seen by posts here, is one very fucked up phenomenon.
It will probably be both:
1. the best thing which has ever happened to Barca
2. and the worst thing which has ever happened to Barca, because due to the drug which that style creates and evokes in fans, there is absolutely no way that we will ever move to something different

With Xavi, it is clear:
1. if he'll make some progress, we'll hear = give him more time
2. if he'll fail = it's not the system, he needs more time and we need better players to make it work.

More or less, it will never be the system's fault as long as fans who grew up during Pep are alive because those emotions and addiction are ingrained eternally into their brains and blood.

In that sense, I know the answer to my question: majority of younger fans will always rather take Xavi, meh results BUT nice play and relying on La Masia AS LONG as there is some hope that longterm we'll get some sort of replica of a holy grail = Pep's football from 2008-2011.

EV just never stood any chance for majority of our fans because he never evoked any of those Pep's memories or resemblances.

The same analogy is: remember the unreal hype/emotions regarding Arthur when we signed him.
Why?
= he brought the hope that he can bring back the feeling from Pep's era.
For the same reason, a lot of fans are still hooked on Puig, even though he is dogshit.
But some of his moves plus being from La Masia bring back the emotions and memories from Pep's era.

Our club/fanbase is extremely weird in that sense

Imo, that will be the reason which will ruin us in the future, but let's see.
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
In less than 24 Months we have fallen from: sack EV even though he is on top of the table, because he is not playing eyepleasing.

To: winning is not the objective, top4 is.

Interesting
I mean I'm all for the EV appreciation but it would take a fool to not realise how much better his squad was.
 

Neymessi

Active member
Seems like that old debate has resurfaced.

I'll try and close it in as less words as possible.

It was not about playing quality vs results that we had a criticism of EV of. It was the fact that he was being extremely luck with his results with us being shit. You watch most of the matches under EV before the Roma blowout and you will see how shit we were playing and were winning by luck/referee mistakes etc. lt was sooner or later that the bubble would burst which it did. So the criticism was not that his gameplay was shit but had results, it was that we were playing shit but luckily winning and it was not sustainable in the long run, and guess what, his incompetent ass got found out.

Not to mention EV had much much better resources than is the case now.
 

Neymessi

Active member
Several hated him even before Rome. Anfield is the fatal blow.

And even if he won UCL, he would still be hated. Everything wrong at that time were his faults, according to fans.

There was very little criticism of him before the upsets. I was one of the few who criticised him so I remember how far and few we were.
 
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