Xavi Hernández

[Jadentheman]

I think that Xavi says something along the lines: during Pep our players/team had let's say 10 tactical tricks/aspects which made them successful.
Today we have only 3 out of those aspects.

So, something similar to Arthur vs player Xavi.
Our players have some skills which resemble successful days but in general lack other key skills and thus they are weak copies of those times.

So, not only that our players and a club lack in a physical and psychological department compared to City, Liverpool, Bayern, Real but they also lack in the only thing left: tactical-technical aspect.

In terms of quality of players, you either break the bank or get lucky with your in-house development. You can also do the strategic method of poaching tons of potential talents then culling as you wish. It's those three things or nothing. Xavi has his midfield, he has Ansu. But he needs an xfactor superstar player or two. And sadly La Masia already churned out some time ago. Now Barca wait for the next wave(take years) or splurge. Simple as that. You surely understand that.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Our away record is absolutely abysmal. They are beatable but if Xavi comes in with Lenglet and Umtiti like against Osasuna it is a sure loss.

Good point on Lenglet and Umtiti. Yeah, if one of those start there's good chance we are toast.

 

[BarcaOG]

Good point on Lenglet and Umtiti. Yeah, if one of those start there's good chance we are toast.

he will start them and pique and busi and alba if hes fit


and we will lose

 

[Pepsbarca]

"@BarcaTimes
?
2h
Xavi: ?Ter Stegen has the best possible ball output in a goalkeeper. Only Neuer is at his height, there is no other goalkeeper with that quality.?"

Sounds like a statement coming straight from 2014.
As if 7 years haven't passed since then, and we haven't seen Alisson, Courtois, Ederson, Donarumma and so on...

Of course he's going to say that to the press. Do you want him to say that Ter Stegen is awful and needs to leave? Might make you feel good about things but it's not going to help us win games. It's called man management.

 

[Pepsbarca]

Pretty bold statement there! But seeing the dedication from La Masia kids in La Liga games is normal and they respect fully the coach, also they are more adapt to the philosophy. Meanwhile mercenaries who arrived here for zillions of money are clueless what this style of football is all about. Since Lucho left our game was based on making runs and pass to Messi and let's see the outcome of it. Sadly non-Barca players had hardly worked under a coach who was truly BarcaDNA, no disrespect to Ernesto Valverde, but he had no idea what this philosophy means as he witnessed just a glimpse of it in his career in its inception during 1988-1990 under Cruyff. Yes, the club won a lot of titles during EV, but it was due to the brilliant chemistry between Messi and Suarez and absolutely no credit to the supermodel Andre Gomes.

I think this is 100% right. He is relying on players that know the style. He's been very vocal about his surprise that many of the players in the squad don't know the simple automatisms that is crucial to his style of play. I'm guessing it's also why Busquets is still playing every game. He knows how Xavi wants to play much better then anyone else that could play there so there's really no choice.

 

[BBZ8800]

One video from the past popped up on my Youtube today, Barca Atletico from 1997.
The match ended in a 5:4 win even though we were losing 0:3 at half time.

But what I wanted to say, while watching a video, I noticed some things which we don't see today:
1. Barca shooting like crazy. We didn't have this current "play safe" nonsense when we want to walk with the ball into the net.
Whenever we were in the box or around the box, players were shooting like crazy from every position.
2. the same applies for Atletico. When you are near the box, just close your eyes and shoot like crazy.
3. also, another thing, there is no dwelling on the ball from our side (especially in midfield) with endless rondos, recycling possession and similar.
This football looked closer to Lucho's direct Barca, Liverpool, Zidane's RM: when you have the ball: get it as fast you can to the opponent's box and once when you around the box, don't slow down like old Messi, Busi, Arthur or everyone in our team, but dribble, shoot or cross into the box as fast as possible. When you play it faster and get the ball into the box often, a lot of havoc and simple tap ins after loose balls in the box happens.
4. in general, our players look faster, they play faster, they look as if they know what they are doing and what they want. And they don't look like technical choir boys from the the last few years.
Btw, I am not talking about Abde, Gavi or Nico because they do have some spark, urgency, passion and aggression.
But compare the football from this video with Messi's era where 10 players were dwelling on the ball and passing it slowly from left to right and only waiting for Messi to do something.

I wish if we could have some parts of this more direct, faster, riskier Barca football from 90s today:
It was also extremely fun to watch, attacking and attractive.

 

[mc_lovin]

You should be all in on Xavi [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION].

Faster, riskier and more direct football is precisely what he is trying to do at the moment. High line, high pressing, real forwards, risky passing... problem is our lack of quality upfront. We would look fantastic/fun with Ronaldo, teenage Messi, Ronaldinho...

Xavi's ideal right now is much closer to 2009 Barca/current Bayern than Peps later years.

 

[Birdy]

Fantastic game, and that was a fantastic Barca side, with Ronaldo phenomeno prob at this best he ever was in his career, firing all cylinders
Barca 96/97 a great side,
history was unjust to them, as LVG's Barca eroded that memory

But, on the other hand, despite the fun of that game,
you could see how open defenses were: totally unorganized, not defending cohesively, distance between banks, or holding the offsite line
Plus, defenders not closing down shots properly
Basically anyone from both teams who broke from md, could have a decent go to score.

 

[BBZ8800]

Fantastic game, and that was a fantastic Barca side, with Ronaldo phenomeno prob at this best he ever was in his career, firing all cylinders
Barca 96/97 a great side,
history was unjust to them, as LVG's Barca eroded that memory

But, on the other hand, despite the fun of that game,
you could see how open defenses were: totally unorganized, not defending cohesively, distance between banks, or holding the offsite line
Plus, defenders not closing down shots properly
Basically anyone from both teams who broke from md, could have a decent go to score.

True about defenses.

But what annoys me in Post-Pep's football in too many sides is some sort of too logical/mathematical football where:
1. if shooting from 25 meters has only 1/30 chance to end as a goal = don't shoot
2. if 1 out of 30 corners end as a goal = don't cross and play short corners

Please, please, I hope that JamDav won't reply again how City shoots from distance and crosses.
You get what I am trying to say: in general football turned to a safer and logical version of football.
Imo, this is why between highly logical teams, in KO matches (CL) = titles will be won by teams who will offer some individual magic (on top of logical football) or who will pull a riskier/surprising solo/team action.

Let's say it this way:
1. shooting from distance whenever you have the ball is stupid because you will score once in 15-20 attempts and you will just give the ball away to an opponent all the time
2. on the other hand, keeping the ball for 80% of time and NOT SHOOTING at all unless if you can walk with the ball into the net is also stupid, because eventually the opponents will figure out that you don't shoot and they will just concentrate on closing you down when you are close to the box (the same as how Mou's Inter knew that Barca won't cross or that we suck at crosses, he left tons of space on wings and invited crosses. On the other hand, he parked two buses in the middle where we are strong).
In that sense, too logical football becomes predictable and sterile after some time and then you again need to invent some magic, surprises and more risks to change the balance.

If you watched this video, you could see the mentality of Figo, Stoichkov and others who would just cross and shoot whenever they were close to the box.
To some extent, RM won 4 CLs that way.
Remember how many times they scored goals from a havoc and tap ins from crosses our of nothing?
They are losing 0:1 in the 80th minute and they will throw 10 crosses in the last 10 minutes.
One of them will end as a header-tap in for CR7 or some Gk/CB mistake and a simple tap in for Benz or a midfielder.
On the other hand, when Barca was losing 0:1, we would dwell with the ball around the box with "smart and logical passes" waiting for a perfect moment to assist and score.
And what happened? (let's say against Atletico in 2014 and 2016) = we would just pass the ball around the box, we wouldn't get the perfect opportunity for a shot, and we would lose without any bullets fired.
So, what is better in that moment?
1. throwing 10 illogical crosses and hoping for a havoc/tap in?
2. or passing around the box and waiting for a perfect moment?

I am not calling for crosses, though.
I am calling for a faster, riskier, more unpredictable football instead of dwelling through the middle all the time.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nah BBZ I will reply again.

City play in a way that they are one of the top sides for crosses and goals from distance.

Most top teams do both.

Same old nonsense claim.

It is actually more beneficial to zing ball from distance than was in the past due to footwear, balls and pitches etc but dont let truth get in the way of a good story.

Peps first CL final.. goal from a header, second CL final two goals outside box etc. First Spanish Cup final Toure zings on in from 30 yards etc.

BBZ just trying to change history and failing miserably to understand what Peps football is yet again.

Messi who was made for Peps football in his prime will have more goals from outside box than any player in history.

Citys last game v Newcastle? First goal.. header. Second goal hit from outside box into top corner by the RB. Hit bar from header in second half. Third goal from a cross in from the left. Fourth goal a run down wing and cut back for tap in.

BBZ has no idea how City play.

 

[serghei]

BBZ is always hilarious with his generalizations.

Is possession football bad when you do it with average managers and/or players like Coutinho, Dembele, old Busquets, etc.?

Yes. It's very slow and boring.

Is possession football incredible when you implement it with world-class managers like Guardiola and top players like De Bruyne, Rodri, Cancelo, Mahrez etc.

Absolutely. It's fast, incredibly pleasing esthetically, creative, and generates a great number of scoring chances.

The same can be said about any style in the history of football. Try to play catenaccio football with Lenglet and Umtiti and see how you do . Or try playing fast counter-attacking football with slow forwards.

 

[serghei]

This BBZ saying that you only need Messi-level players to play effective possession football turned to shit the moment Pep made the toughest league in the world his own playground. With far lesser players than Messi, Iniesta, or Xavi.

Key difference, it's Pep. And they have money to source quality players constantly.

 

[Bobo32]

BBZ is always hilarious with his generalizations.

Is possession football bad when you do it with average managers and/or players like Coutinho, Dembele, old Busquets, etc.?

Yes. It's very slow and boring.

Is possession football incredible when you implement it with world-class managers like Guardiola and top players like De Bruyne, Rodri, Cancelo, Mahrez etc.

Absolutely. It's fast, incredibly pleasing esthetically, creative, and generates a great number of scoring chances.

The same can be said about any style in the history of football. Try to play catenaccio football with Lenglet and Umtiti and see how you do . Or try playing fast counter-attacking football with slow forwards.

The four City players you mention were rated lower than Coutinho or Dembele before they came to Guardiola. All players you mention are on a lower level than old Busquets, maybe maybe de Bruyne can compete.

The best years of Barcelona, only Messi was allowed to take some risks, and he was the only one able to do things on his own (Alves and Iniesta to some degree). It would be impossible to be as dominant with a couple of Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Suarez and Neymar in the same team at the same time. It is exactly opposite to the argument BBZ seems to be making. 2010 Barcelona without Messi would still stand a good chance against full 2015 or 2006 Barcelona.

 

[serghei]

The four City players you mention were rated lower than Coutinho or Dembele before they came to Guardiola. All players you mention are on a lower level than old Busquets, maybe maybe de Bruyne can compete.

The best years of Barcelona, only Messi was allowed to take some risks, and he was the only one able to do things on his own (Alves and Iniesta to some degree). It would be impossible to be as dominant with a couple of Eto'o, Ronaldinho, Suarez and Neymar in the same team at the same time. It is exactly opposite to the argument BBZ seems to be making. 2010 Barcelona without Messi would still stand a good chance against full 2015 or 2006 Barcelona.

I'm not talking about how they were rated, or their transfer fees. All of them are better players than the Barca players, also because they have been working with Guardiola all this time. Everyone who is actually focused on his career, is not an idiot, and doesn't have a big ego, learns and develops a lot under Guardiola. That's a given.

I consider your rating of Busquets a joke tbh. Rodri is a superior player in every way. I expect him to dispatch Busi even under Lucho soon in the national team.

 

[Bobo32]

I'm not talking about how they were rated, or their transfer fees. All of them are better players than the Barca players, also because they have been working with Guardiola all this time. Everyone who is actually focused on his career, is not an idiot, and doesn't have a big ego, learns and develops a lot under Guardiola. That's a given.

I consider your rating of Busquets a joke tbh. Rodri is a superior player in every way. I expect him to dispatch Busi even under Lucho soon in the national team.

If you are correct about Rodri, then you are maybe showing you can think for yourself, the same way Pep has done when he got these four players and made them into players you make an example of.
Mahrez and de Bruyne proved themselves in the club just before City to an extent, but were both very much questioned at a point prior to that. Cancelo was a bit like that too, I guess Rodri was not.
It is a bit strange though that Rodri, after three years with Pep and Enrique, entering the prime years of his carreer, still isn't rated as superior overall by Enrique yet. The point will probably come, as he is 8 years younger.

I never asked for Coutinho or Dembele and never rated them, but they could both turn their carreers around from here in the right club.