Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
dat metaphor
10 - Lionel Messi - v1
- Thread starter Evil
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dat metaphor
J
jiopi
Guest
Era-adjusted also Pele's best season. You can see from the chart that SPS was slighty more scoring league than Bundesliga, and a lot more than La Liga. Santos was also more superior in that league than Barca is in La Liga.
Eighteen99
New member
It's not just goals scored though, is it?
It's how you score them and what else you bring to the team.
I'm not saying this as a direct comparison between Messi and Pele as I've never seen Pele play, but Messi scores unbelievable individual goals, and when he's not scoring he's usually assisting. Take for example the 53 goals scored by Messi and Ronaldo last season. Now look at how many penalties & tap-ins Ronaldo got compared to Messi. Whilst it can be argued that you still have to score the penalty, and still be in the right position to score tap-ins, it is a considerably easier goal to add to your statistic. I am terrible at football, but give me 11 penalties in any league or competition and I'm sure I'd score some of them, and there you go, I've got goal/game statistics.
Statistics are not enough alone to judge a player. It's the quality of Messi's goals, and the amount of assists and influence he brings to the team that give people reason to call him the best ever, not just the fact he scores a lot.
It's how you score them and what else you bring to the team.
I'm not saying this as a direct comparison between Messi and Pele as I've never seen Pele play, but Messi scores unbelievable individual goals, and when he's not scoring he's usually assisting. Take for example the 53 goals scored by Messi and Ronaldo last season. Now look at how many penalties & tap-ins Ronaldo got compared to Messi. Whilst it can be argued that you still have to score the penalty, and still be in the right position to score tap-ins, it is a considerably easier goal to add to your statistic. I am terrible at football, but give me 11 penalties in any league or competition and I'm sure I'd score some of them, and there you go, I've got goal/game statistics.
Statistics are not enough alone to judge a player. It's the quality of Messi's goals, and the amount of assists and influence he brings to the team that give people reason to call him the best ever, not just the fact he scores a lot.
Hatem Ben Arfa
New member
the iniesta thing is almost 2 years ago now. I suggest you get over it.
Fabregas Pep, I'm not the one who started it. blame the commentators and newswriters all over the world who made it a big debating point. why is it so taboo to debate it on here?
I brought Pele's 66 goals up because I said Messi would beat it this season and reach 67 goals in the remaing 12(15) games this season and beat Pele and Dixie Deans records. what is so negative about that? read my original post.
there is no need for you to get personal and take the mick. I don't recall ever insulting you, or mocking before on this forum. I would appreciate it if you could show the same courtesy instead of being obnoxious just because you disagree with my opinion that I find what Pele did at 18 years old more impressive. If you don't agree, why do have to be so obnoxious and patronising about it?
I am respectful enough to respect others opinions on here and agree to disagree without resorting to getting personal and taking the mick, why can't you?
classic case of 'someone doesn't agree with my opinion, so I am going to mock them and get personal'. very mature.
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La LL
Generally Delightful
No. I'm saying there's a time and place for everything. You pick the wrong time and place.
Kerrybai
New member
No doubt Pele was the best of his generation, and although I havn't seen much of his gameplay due to the lack of footage, I dont think hes the GOAT.
The problem with the Pele arguement is that is mostly based on his 1000 goals and 3 world cups. However officially he had around 700 and although he didnt play in a 'shit' league,it certainly wasnt up to the standard of modern European football. Would he have scored 700 goals in Europe? Secondly his 3 world cups - one of the best national sides of all time. Garrincha was the star of 58, and 62. Pele played 1 game in the 62 world cup as far as I know.
Also the CL is now possibly a better test of football than the World cup. South Africa proved this with awful England and France team and a fear of attacking Spain rounded off by a final which involved an attemp to kick the eventual champions off the field.
Also everyone seems to forget about evolution, players today are far advanced from those in Pele's generation, and now even beyond those of Maradona's. In 30 years time players will be faster, stronger and more agile. One day we will see someone surpass Messi as the generations evolve.
For now Messi sit upon his throne watching down on the mere mortals below him.
The problem with the Pele arguement is that is mostly based on his 1000 goals and 3 world cups. However officially he had around 700 and although he didnt play in a 'shit' league,it certainly wasnt up to the standard of modern European football. Would he have scored 700 goals in Europe? Secondly his 3 world cups - one of the best national sides of all time. Garrincha was the star of 58, and 62. Pele played 1 game in the 62 world cup as far as I know.
Also the CL is now possibly a better test of football than the World cup. South Africa proved this with awful England and France team and a fear of attacking Spain rounded off by a final which involved an attemp to kick the eventual champions off the field.
Also everyone seems to forget about evolution, players today are far advanced from those in Pele's generation, and now even beyond those of Maradona's. In 30 years time players will be faster, stronger and more agile. One day we will see someone surpass Messi as the generations evolve.
For now Messi sit upon his throne watching down on the mere mortals below him.
F
Flavia
Guest
Why ruin Messi's thread with pele, a guy that's always bellitling Messi, going to the extreme of saying neymar is already better than him? Start a thread "pele vs Messi - who is the best", for this kind of controversy. With a title like that, I'm sure it would be a hit here in the forum.
J
jiopi
Guest
Yeah, it's common statistical practice to compare statistics in different eras. It basicly gives you average scoring rate of that era. So you can compare two players in different eras, by adjusting their relation to other average player of their eras.
In the old days defending wasn't as effective and scoring was higher, in that notion Messi's goal scoring achievement is currently better than Pele's and Müller's record seasons.
You can find more info from google, era adjusted statistics.
khorne
New member
I don't want to derail the thread further, but how can there be such a thing as the greatest football player of all time? it's a team sport that has evolved to a level where each position has its distinct specifics and demands. you'd have to call messi the greatest striker of all time, and even then it's a highly subjective claim. so what's the point of arguing about it? it's like back in school, where those insecure kids always needed the approval of others for their music or clothing style or girls.
so you for you messi/pele/maradonna/ronaldo is the best you've ever seen. great, many people agree with you. some do not. do you need a certificate from the united nations that says he is forever the best player of all times, to be able to enjoy watching him?
so you for you messi/pele/maradonna/ronaldo is the best you've ever seen. great, many people agree with you. some do not. do you need a certificate from the united nations that says he is forever the best player of all times, to be able to enjoy watching him?
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