10 - Lionel Messi - v1

[gingerless]

You already said that!!

this thread needs a good dose of jersey shore gifs

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

hatem, man, it's basically what henry ib said. i shouldn't have to point out that simply picking two videos of two random games is not a valid source to back up your argument with... there are too many factors that affect what happens. this kind of shit should enter your spectrum of thought before you even think of posting it and it should be calculated and summarized as an unacceptable argument to make for backing up your claims. this is why a lot of people disagree with a lot of what you say, there is a reason some thoughts are held back and not spoken in (or in this case written) as words but you seem to have no boundary between what comes to your mind and what you choose to filter through and speak up on.

i'm not going to engage on this topic any further, btw

for goodness sakes. I post the two videos where Messi is between two defenders and using pace. the only two examples that sprung to mind from this season and last season. there is nothing random about it, it is where I noticed a difference in pace.

why is my argument 'unacceptable'? and why should such thoughts as 'messi seems slower than last season' be held back and not be spoken?

if people notice such things, why are they not allowed to comment on it?

you really are something. If anyone notices or observes something that is ever so slightly negative about a Barca player, it is obviously an unacceptable argument in your book.

you should PM Bojan and try have me and the others that agree with me on this issue banned, because my behvaiour and our reasoning is totally unacceptable.

 

[Aryagorn]

this thread needs a good dose of jersey shore gifs

What does that mean again!?

 

[Henry_IB]

they are comparable in my opinion. the two guys either side of him, he would have burst right past them leaving them for dead before the 3rd guy arrives in front of him.

if you disagree with it, then that is fine. But I and a few others think differently. That doesn't makes us haters, trolls or 'ungrateful little plastic fans with no idea what it is like to support a real football team'.

yes different defenders have different pace. but the situations are comparable IMO. looking in the 2nd video vs Osasuna, I don't think i've seen him display that kind of pace this season.

are you saying you can only compare a players speed to last season when they play against the same defenders again, otherwise you can't say the player is slower? That is just not true. it doesn't have to be against the same defenders to notice that a player slower.

and the manner I'm trying to prove my point is 'retarded' you say. I really don't like the use of that word, and it comes across as you calling me a 'retard' if I'm honest. was there any need for that.

I've posted the videos to show where I have noticed the difference in his speed. That is all. it is not me saying, i've posted the videos, I am right you are all wrong. Read my words in that post because they hardly come across like that. if you disagree with my opinion on his speed, then you disagree, then that is fine.

First off, if you interpreted "your point is retarded" as me calling you a retard I apologize, I am simply trying to say that the manner in which you try to prove Messi's decrease in pace is invalid.

That is the problem, in your opinion, the videos are a good comparison but they are not. I've already explained why these videos are a bad example but apparently that wasn't enough. I never said you cannot make a comparison unless he plays against the same defenders, but in your case when you only post 2 videos, you can't. Your data range is way too small in order to draw any sort of conclusion out of it. If you manage to post 25 videos of messi's pace in 09/10 and another 25 videos of him later in similar situations, then we could start talking. Because there are so many things which would could have caused the difference in speed as you see it in those two videos; Exhausted, just got back from injury, slept badly, had been running more in that game than in the other, saving himself for some game etc etc. By posting a larger video count of compariable examples you reduce the chance of such variables influencing the result. And as I said, you probably need at least 25 videos for it to be of any decent standard.

If you had simply stated that you think he is slower than before, I would disagree but respect that. However, it would appear as if you derive to that opinion by using faulty methods and bad logic and that is, as I said previously, stupid.

If you are still unable to see why your way of trying to prove messi's decrease in pace is not coherent on any level of existance, then I give up.

 

[Fourteen]

It's not that its "unacceptable", its just complete gobshite. It's probably best you agree to disagree with everyone now, Hatem, and find something else to discuss. Everyone understands your opinion and quite frankly, its getting annoying.

 

[gingerless]

What does that mean again!?

it's to clear the thread of trash and bring it back on topic

 

[Aryagorn]

it's to clear the thread of trash and bring it back on topic

get it now :beer2:

 

[gingerless]

 

[gingerless]

the messi phobia thing worked perfectly

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

First off, if you interpreted "your point is retarded" as me calling you a retard I apologize, I am simply trying to say that the manner in which you try to prove Messi's decrease in pace is invalid.

That is the problem, in your opinion, the videos are a good comparison but they are not. I've already explained why these videos are a bad example but apparently that wasn't enough. I never said you cannot make a comparison unless he plays against the same defenders, but in your case when you only post 2 videos, you can't. Your data range is way too small in order to draw any sort of conclusion out of it. If you manage to post 25 videos of messi's pace in 09/10 and another 25 videos of him later in similar situations, then we could start talking. Because there are so many things which would could have caused the difference in speed as you seed as you see it; Exhausted, just got back from injury, slept badly, had been running more in that game than in the other, saving himself for some game etc etc. By posting a larger video count of compariable examples you reduce the chance of such variables influencing the result. And as I said, you probably need at least 25 videos for it to be of any decent standard.

If you had simply stated that you think he is slower than before, I would disagree but respect that. However, it would appear as if you derive to that opinion by using faulty methods and bad logic and that is, as I said previously, stupid.

If you are still unable to see why your way of trying to prove messi's decrease in pace is not coherent on any level of existance, then I give up.

Ok use this logic then. when this season have you seen Messi display the same pace shown in that Osasuna video. I have not seen it this season and I have watched every Barca game this season. that is also part of how I arrived at my conclusion. I already said I had my nagging suspicions, and that the Betis game confirmed them for me.

If you disagree with that then it is fine.

I have mentioned that he is possibly tired, to which other posters who agreed with me replied he just had a break after CWC 2011 and suggested his extra muscle weight might have something to do with.

I don't think I need to post 25 videos for my conclusions to be of a decent standard. Others that have probably seen all his games this season have come to the same conclusion, before I ever posted those two examples. And I'm sure they also watched most of his games last season too.

 

[Henry_IB]

I would also like to point out that many of you people who say he gained muscles and hence he lost some pace.

This does not have to be true, the world's fastest men are ripped like hell with muscles. There is an equilibrium between muscles and speed, whether messi has gone past the point where more muscles would slow him down I am no one to say, just wanna point out that saying the he is slower because has more muscles than before does not have to be a valid argument.

 

[Henry_IB]

Ok use this logic then. when this season have you seen Messi display the same pace shown in that Osasuna video. I have not seen it this season and I have watched every Barca game this season. that is also part of how I arrived at my conclusion. I already said I had my nagging suspicions, and that the Betis game confirmed them for me.

If you disagree with that then it is fine.

I have mentioned that he is possibly tired, to which other posters who agreed with me replied he just had a break after CWC 2011 and suggested his extra muscle weight might have something to do with.

I don't think I need to post 25 videos for my conclusions to be of a decent standard. Others that have probably seen all his games this season have come to the same conclusion, before I ever posted those two examples. And I'm sure they also watched most of his games last season too.

Now that is another thing, if you say you've looked at Barcelona throughout the years, seen most games and now think Messi has lost some pace, I respect that.

Just don't try to validate your point in a highly invalid way.

 

[Chainsaw]

The problem with you HBA is that your intentions of 'Criticizing' is about finding a flaw and then yelling out about that repeatedly. I saw you on the chat box the other night when Barcelona-Betis was on and right after Sanchez scored I saw you writing in there "everyone ran to Sanchez to celebrate except Messi. I have to figure that out!"

And it's not the first time I see such things from you. Your obsession with Racism topics, Busquets antics and other stuffs equal to those constant nonsense coming from that Trillske guy about the "Enemies of Football". At least if you wanna criticize get your intentions clear. Not saying something but meaning something else.

 

[gingerless]

I would also like to point out that many of you people who say he gained muscles and hence he lost some pace.

This does not have to be true, the world's fastest men are ripped like hell with muscles. There is an equilibrium between muscles and speed, whether messi has gone past the point where more muscles would slow him down I am no one to say, just wanna point out that saying the he is slower because has more muscles than before does not have to be a valid argument.

Jonah Lomu

10.8 seconds over 100m

Weight: 120 KG

one of the fastest players i've seen in rugby, destroyed everything in his path if it dared to stand in his way, if not, he just blasted past them with ridiculous speed

 

[Fourteen]

Jonah Lomu - Legend. Certainly a Messi of the Rugby Union world. Watching him play made me watch International RU thereafter.