10 - Lionel Messi - v2

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La LL

Generally Delightful
As of right now, Messi has scored 281 goals during his club career. That is only 8 goals less than C. Ronaldo despite C. Ronaldo being two years older and having played two more seasons that Messi.

What will people say when Messi has scored more goals than C. Ronaldo?
 

Sultan

Nosce te ipsum
As of right now, Messi has scored 281 goals during his club career. That is only 8 goals less than C. Ronaldo despite C. Ronaldo being two years older and having played two more seasons that Messi.

What will people say when Messi has scored more goals than C. Ronaldo?

Every hero needs a villain. The superior the villain - the need for a more superior hero. The best thing that happened for Messi, I believe, was C. Ronaldo coming to Madrid. Just look at his stats before and after.

Ali had Foreman, Messi has CR7.
 

ShandyFFM

New member
who cares.... messi is magic thats what he is...hes something i just can not imagine to be myself.. he does things i just cant imagine how i would do them
 
F

Flavia

Guest
Marca said they recognized the goal as an official goal but didn't count it for the pichichi because it's not a goal according to their rules. So they still think he's on 84, just doesn't count it for the pichichi.

BS, just to take one goal away from Messi. It's pathetic, specially when they did the exact opposite to favor cristina :facepalm:
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Every hero needs a villain. The superior the villain - the need for a more superior hero. The best thing that happened for Messi, I believe, was C. Ronaldo coming to Madrid. Just look at his stats before and after.

Ali had Foreman, Messi has CR7.

Good take but i'd personally disagree with that. The whole "your rivals make you better thing" works in different scenarios. For boxing it definitely works because they go up against each other one on one and have to come out on top. That creates a personal rivalry and causes the person to strive more to defeat their opponent. In football however, it's a team sport. Messi just wants what is best for his team and likewise with Ronaldo. Ronaldo does seem to be a little bit more affected by the whole "rivalry" than Messi but even then he's been very professional when it has been brought up. I doubt Messi gives a damn about how much Ronaldo scores because all he wants is for his team to do well.
 

Stric

New member
Good take but i'd personally disagree with that. The whole "your rivals make you better thing" works in different scenarios. For boxing it definitely works because they go up against each other one on one and have to come out on top. That creates a personal rivalry and causes the person to strive more to defeat their opponent. In football however, it's a team sport. Messi just wants what is best for his team and likewise with Ronaldo. Ronaldo does seem to be a little bit more affected by the whole "rivalry" than Messi but even then he's been very professional when it has been brought up. I doubt Messi gives a damn about how much Ronaldo scores because all he wants is for his team to do well.

Well put. And that's also the reason why crowds chant "Messi, Messi" at Ronaldo's games and don't chant "Ronaldo" at Messi's, because they see Ronaldo is much more annoyed by Messi than the other way around. And of course, because Messi is obviously superior, so there's no point in trying to annoy him with somebody's inferior achievements.
 

Sultan

Nosce te ipsum
Good take but i'd personally disagree with that. The whole "your rivals make you better thing" works in different scenarios. For boxing it definitely works because they go up against each other one on one and have to come out on top. That creates a personal rivalry and causes the person to strive more to defeat their opponent. In football however, it's a team sport. Messi just wants what is best for his team and likewise with Ronaldo. Ronaldo does seem to be a little bit more affected by the whole "rivalry" than Messi but even then he's been very professional when it has been brought up. I doubt Messi gives a damn about how much Ronaldo scores because all he wants is for his team to do well.

Football is indeed a team sport, and Messi's primary focus in not to out shine Ronaldo, but to win/help his club win. For Messi to help his club win tho he must help his club out perform the rest, to do that he must out perform the opposition. Madrid is(has been) the primary opposition, Ronaldo plays for Madrid, and he is their best player. That is the opposition that Messi must out perform. This is what i am referring to. Messi doesn't care how much Ronaldo scores as long as his team finish second.

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Paganinisrvnge

New member
"Ronaldo is more complete"?

It really rustles my jimmies when people use that expression. What does it even mean? If anyone is a more complete footballer, it's Messi. Messi can play on the wing, as a true or false 9, as a classic 10, and probably anywhere in midfield. I could see him even doing fairly well in a Pirlo deep lying midfield role because he has great control, vision and passing. It's just an underrated asset of his in comparison to his finishing and dribbling.

Ronaldo may seem annoying and full of himself but I respect his abilities. He is a fantastic footballer. However, he just does not even come close to Messi in terms of overall play. I cannot bring myself to believe that there are ACTUALLY people who think that because Ronaldo is taller and gets more headed goals plus scores the occasional long shot; that makes him the more "complete player". He could never be as successful in any type of midfield role. From what I understand, he doesn't even like playing as a true forward because he doesn't get to use his speed to gallop down the wings.
 

CatalinR10

Senior Member
Neymar (Santos): "Who deserves to win the Ballon d'Or? I vote for Messi. He is truly the best player in the world." [tf1]
 

lessthanjake

New member
It really rustles my jimmies when people use that expression. What does it even mean? If anyone is a more complete footballer, it's Messi. Messi can play on the wing, as a true or false 9, as a classic 10, and probably anywhere in midfield. I could see him even doing fairly well in a Pirlo deep lying midfield role because he has great control, vision and passing. It's just an underrated asset of his in comparison to his finishing and dribbling.

Ronaldo may seem annoying and full of himself but I respect his abilities. He is a fantastic footballer. However, he just does not even come close to Messi in terms of overall play. I cannot bring myself to believe that there are ACTUALLY people who think that because Ronaldo is taller and gets more headed goals plus scores the occasional long shot; that makes him the more "complete player". He could never be as successful in any type of midfield role. From what I understand, he doesn't even like playing as a true forward because he doesn't get to use his speed to gallop down the wings.

I agree with everything you are saying. In one sense, Messi is actually far more complete. When people say Ronaldo is more complete, it is as a scorer. In that sense, yeah, he is more complete. He makes more header goals, has longer range, etc. In my mind, this is a red herring though. People are basically saying "Ronaldo can score in more ways than Messi, so he is a better scorer even though he doesn't score as many goals." When you take this argument to its extreme, it shows its absurdity. If there were one player who scored 10 goals, each of a different type, and another who scored 85 goals, each of the exact same type, there is NO WAY anyone would say the 10 goal player is a better goalscorer. Is he more "complete" a goalscorer? Yeah, probably. He can score in ways the other guy can't. But the other guy is SOOO much better at the one way that he does score, that he's clearly the better goalscorer.

The same is true of Messi and Ronaldo. Ronaldo scores in a greater variety of ways. But Messi scores more. All this means is that Ronaldo can score in more ways but Messi is so much better than Ronaldo at the ways that he does score that Messi is the better goalscorer still.

What is similarly absurd is people who try to compare Ronaldo and Messi category by category. They say things like this:

"Heading: Ronaldo
Long Range Goals: Ronaldo
Free Kicks: Ronaldo
Dribbling: Messi
Passing: Messi

Ronaldo wins more categories and so he is better."

This argument is just absurd. People who do this are taking very minor skills (such as heading) and elevating them to the same level as very major skills (such as dribbling). If two players are otherwise equal but one is far better at heading and the other is far better at dribbling, I'd bet a whole lot that the dribbling player is the better player, instead of the two of them being even like this method would indicate. The things that Messi is better at are much more important than the different random ways that Ronaldo scores a handful of goals each season.

The argument is also absurd because it doesn't take into account the degree to which one player is better than the other at a given thing. Let's say there are 10 important attributes for a player, and one of them is speed. Let's say we have Player A and Player B. Player A is REALLY SLIGHTLY better than Player B at all the attributes except speed. Player B is as fast as Usain Bolt, while Player A runs a 20 second 100m. If you equated all attributes the same, you'd say Player A is clearly the better player since he is better at 9 of the 10 important things. However, having Usain Bolt speed instead of 20 second 100m speed would EASILY outweigh being SLIGHTLY worse at 9 other things. Again, we see this with Messi and Ronaldo comparisons. Messi is a FAR better dribbler and a FAR better passer. A lot of Ronaldo's advantages in various things are quite small. To equate Messi's big advantage in passing with Ronaldo's small advantage in free kicks (which is probably not even an advantage anymore) is patently absurd.
 
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Paganinisrvnge

New member
You hit the nail on the head lessthanjake. Only Cristina fanboys would say heading and long shots are as important as passing and dribbling.
 
J

jiopi

Guest
La Liga 2012:

36 games
54 goals - 1,50 %
14 assists - 0,39 %
68 total - 1,89 %

Wins: 31
Draws: 3
Loses: 2
Btw, you should check your math, it's not 1,50% it's 150% or 1,50x. Don't wanna sound like a jerk, but you keep doing this.
 
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