10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Flavia]

But the two things dont have to be seperate.

Messi behaviour is out of order regardless of how bad Lucho is.

I hate this idea that it doesnt matter what Messi does as Lucho is worse. Of course Lucho is worse, he is arrogant and confusing the players but regardless Messi is not behaving properly either.

Messi hinting at leaving, missing training is nothing new anyway he did the same things under Pep but Pep let it go as he had a group of players and system that was functioning.

I never said Messi's behaviour was right. Just that Enrique doesn't know how to handle him, or the team. Things did get out of hand, but players are people, not robots. Frustration builds up to a limit.
And that's the point. Messi is reacting to Enrique. And we don't know the full story. Enrique told the press today many things weren't true, etc.

But just imagine your boss give you 2 extra days of vacation, and when you come back to work, he punishes you for it, and you lose a client, for instance. No wonder Neymar was making jokes after Alba's own goal.

 

[Kohe321]

Copying my post from the Enrique thread as it's on-topic here as well:

Messi didn't act like this before it was absolutely necessary. Lucho has been here for half a season and has so far failed miserably and acting indredibly arrogant while doing so. He acts as if he doesn't have to answer for his decisions to anyone, as if his status as coach gives him absolute carte blanche until the end of the season, which apparently he thinks is the only appropriate time for any criticism.

You could argue that the players have even been patient with him. He got his chance, he got respected in the beginning like all new coaches does, in fact he got respected for a while longer than his actions called for, but nevertheless - once the "shine" of a new coach wore off, they quickly saw what kind of coach and person they were dealing with. Six months later and this happens. This is why a coach has to earn the respect of his players and gain their trust, if not he loses the squad. It's the same in every sporting institution with a coach figure.

 

[JamDav1982]

I never said Messi's behaviour was right. Just that Enrique doesn't know how to handle him, or the team. Things did get out of hand, but players are people, not robots. Frustration builds up to a limit.
And that's the point. Messi is reacting to Enrique. And we don't know the full story. Enrique told the press today many things weren't true, etc.

But just imagine your boss give you 2 extra days of vacation, and when you come back to work, he punishes you for it, and you lose a client, for instance. No wonder Neymar was making jokes after Alba's own goal.

Absolutely, Lucho is confusing the players and not doing his job but to have one player treated so differently doesnt go well for a group of players in the long run.

I dont have any problems in Messi falling out with Lucho but to argue with him to the point of it almost getting physical, to then miss training in a sulk and fuel rumours of leaving through twitter/instagram is totally wrong.

For Messi to be able to do that and the club not have the balls to reprimand him for it sends out a terrible message to the group in my opinion. Problems that could last long after Lucho is gone. But the remains to be seen.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Messi missed training due to illness or am I wrong? If there is a source that denies it please only post it if it is not some random twitter rumor.

 

[Fibonacci]

Lucho has been here for half a season and has so far failed miserably

No he hasn't. We're rebuilding and looking for new approaches this season, and we're still definitely competing on all fronts.

 

[King5Puyi]

Messi isn't just the best player we have, but he is a bigger Culé than all of us here combined.

Considering how pissed we are at the way the club is going, think about how he feels with the unwanted havoc inside out. He has a lot on the line too.

Granted that he jumped across the line, but almost any of you in his shoes would have done the exact same thing to save the club you love.

 

[Zebulun]

Absolutely, Lucho is confusing the players and not doing his job but to have one player treated so differently doesnt go well for a group of players in the long run.

I dont have any problems in Messi falling out with Lucho but to argue with him to the point of it almost getting physical, to then miss training in a sulk and fuel rumours of leaving through twitter/instagram is totally wrong.

For Messi to be able to do that and the club not have the balls to reprimand him for it sends out a terrible message to the group in my opinion. Problems that could last long after Lucho is gone. But the remains to be seen.

i dont believe for a second that it came close to a physical fight, that's press propaganda. messi is an introvert

 

[KingMessi]

I dont have any problems in Messi falling out with Lucho but to argue with him to the point of it almost getting physical, to then miss training in a sulk and fuel rumours of leaving through twitter/instagram is totally wrong.

Why are you using info from Estonian press who used nonexistent information from Marca?

 

[JamDav1982]

i dont believe for a second that it came close to a physical fight, that's press propaganda. messi is an introvert

Yeah that might not be true and could well be the press sensationalising it.

 

[Kohe321]

No he hasn't. We're rebuilding and looking for new approaches this season, and we're still definitely competing on all fronts.

I completely disagree, and by how we're playing we won't be competing on all three fronts much longer if things do not change drastically. Also, Barca still competing on all three fronts in january is the least we could expect, and no thanks to Enrique might I add.

Let me link you to this excellent post that was just posted by Cruijffista in the Enrique forum that mirror my view completely:http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/605-Luis-Enrique?p=1374905&viewfull=1#post1374905

 

[Chainsaw]

Messi isn't just the best player we have, but he is a bigger Culé than all of us here combined.

+100000000000

 

[JamDav1982]

How big a Cule a player is is fairly irrelevant as I dont think anyone suggests Messi is trying to sabotage the club in any deliberate way.

Also there has barely been a bigger Cule than Luis Enrique in the past 15/20 years.....

 

[Flavia]

No he hasn't. We're rebuilding and looking for new approaches this season, and we're still definitely competing on all fronts.

No, we're not. There's nothing being rebuild at Can Barça.

 

[Fibonacci]

Competing on three fronts is decent enough. It's no reason to dismiss a coach. Sure, the style hasn't been great, and there might have been some confusion. But a) that's to be expected when you're trying to change course, and b) it's still not enough to dismiss a coach if the results are good enough as they have been. If Lucho loses the dressing room, then there is a problem. But if that is precipitated by players who think they're above the coach (that's an if), then that's not unproblematic either.

I know we're dealing with rumours. But if they're true, am I really the only one who thinks it's worrying that Xavi tells a coach to change the style one year, and Messi ends up forcing another coach out the next?

 

[Fibonacci]

No, we're not. There's nothing being rebuild at Can Barça.

Really? It's not like we've slipped in the past 2/3 years, is it? I forgot we won loads last season. I must've also just imagined all the people - here on barcaforum and elsewhere - demanding new faces and new ideas going forward. Whatever you say about Lucho's style and success so far, he has certainly been trying out new things (which is partly why people seem to be so upset).