10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[KingMessi]

Lucho has been trying out things. But he hasn't stuck with any one thing even when it worked. He just keeps experimenting.

 

[Flavia]

Competing on three fronts is decent enough. It's no reason to dismiss a coach. Sure, the style hasn't been great, and there might have been some confusion. But a) that's to be expected when you're trying to change course, and b) it's still not enough to dismiss a coach if the results are good enough as they have been. If Lucho loses the dressing room, then there is a problem. But if that is precipitated by players who think they're above the coach (that's an if), then that's not unproblematic either.

If things keep going as they are, we won't be competing on 3 fronts for long. And you're missing something, because all reports say enrique already lost the dressing room.
And I have to ask: which style? We don't have one right now. Apart for rotating without a clear reason, on the pitch I see nothing resembling a system, or the team being rebuild.

Really? It's not like we've slipped in the past 2/3 years, is it? I forgot we won loads last season. I must've also just imagined all the people - here on barcaforum and elsewhere - demanding new faces and new ideas going forward. Whatever you say about Lucho's style and success so far, he has certainly been trying out new things (which is partly why people seem to be so upset).

We lost the liga in the last game. With Tata, as bad as he was, the team was playing much better. Enrique is not trying "new" things. He is rotating the players non stop, and keeping possession for the sake of it. The team is slow, predictable, and has difficult scoring. It's the Barça team with fewer goals in a while. 2007, IIRC.

Enrique was a bad choice. It's best to try and salvage somthing now, while there's still time, then to let him keep ruining the team, because that's what he's doing.

 

[SeloBarca]

Really? It's not like we've slipped in the past 2/3 years, is it? I forgot we won loads last season. I must've also just imagined all the people - here on barcaforum and elsewhere - demanding new faces and new ideas going forward. Whatever you say about Lucho's style and success so far, he has certainly been trying out new things (which is partly why people seem to be so upset).

 

[Fibonacci]

Either that's second degree sarcasm or then just a failure to read.

 

[Fibonacci]

We lost the liga in the last game. With Tata, as bad as he was, the team was playing much better. Enrique is not trying "new" things. He is rotating the players non stop, and keeping possession for the sake of it. The team is slow, predictable, and has difficult scoring. It's the Barça team with fewer goals in a while. 2007, IIRC.

Enrique was a bad choice. It's best to try and salvage somthing now, while there's still time, then to let him keep ruining the team, because that's what he's doing.

How trigger happy are you with coaches? I think in normal world, and in Barca historically, it would absurd to even debate sacking a coach after 5 months when we're second by a point in the league and won our UCL group..

 

[Empty]

Are you deliberately trolling? Because that seems to be the case.

 

[doublehh03]

How trigger happy are you with coaches? I think in normal world, and in Barca historically, it would absurd to even debate sacking a coach after 5 months when we're second by a point in the league and won our UCL group..

With this type of talent, that's not the expectations. We aren't even the favorites anymore and that tells you a lot. We're winning games purely off of our talent, and not on any tactical methods instilled by Lucho.

We are having one of the worst offensive seasons in recent memory, and struggling to score on many games.

 

[Fibonacci]

Are you deliberately trolling? Because that seems to be the case.

No. I think people have lost all perspective on things.

Why don't you answer the points raised.

 

[klc123]

No. I think people have lost all perspective on things.

Why don't you answer the points raised.

With the squad Enrique has, barca should be contending for the CL and given how much Madrid have slipped up this year we should be top.

A coach is supposed to get the best out of his players and make them play better and as a team. With the last 3 managers we've played worse and the players have suffered because of it.

That's all without considering how much he has upset the dressing room and our best player.

 

[Fibonacci]

With this type of talent, that's not the expectations. We aren't even the favorites anymore and that tells you a lot. We're winning games purely off of our talent, and not on any tactical methods instilled by Lucho.

We are having one of the worst offensive seasons in recent memory, and struggling to score on many games.

We shouldn't be favourites given that we won nada last season.

Yes, we've struggled offensively, but we're having a great season defensively. In the league we've let in just over half the goals Real and Atleti have. At this rate we'll let in far fewer goals than last season. In fact, we're on course to having fewer goals against than we did under Pep. A team isn't defensively tight without the coach's input. So things depend on how you look at them.

 

[Fibonacci]

With the squad Enrique has, barca should be contending for the CL and given how much Madrid have slipped up this year we should be top.

A coach is supposed to get the best out of his players and make them play better and as a team. With the last 3 managers we've played worse and the players have suffered because of it.

That's all without considering how much he has upset the dressing room and our best player.

Really? Basically the same squad we had with Tito and Tata? The squad whose key players are aging and are declining (well, that's the consensus on this thread anyway)...

The only real upgrade is Suarez, and he was out for 4 months.

 

[doublehh03]

We shouldn't be favourites given that we won nada last season.

Yes, we've struggled offensively, but we're having a great season defensively. In the league we've let in just over half the goals Real and Atleti have. At this rate we'll let in far fewer goals than last season. In fact, we're on course to having fewer goals against than we did under Pep. A team isn't defensively tight without the coach's input. So things depend on how you look at them.

When we played the good offensive teams, our defense looked pathetic. Don't let the clean sheets fool you. PSG had no troubles in Paris. Madrid destroyed our defense with its counter attacks. If we played Bayern again "right now," oh lord, i can't even imagine. So I really don't think our defense is that good if we had to face the best teams right now.

But with the type of offensive talent that we have, to struggle to score in so many games is just simply incredible. And that's due to Lucho's pathetic way of rotating players and thus there is no chemistry on the pitch to generate the type of continuity that is necessary for "Barca" football.

In any sports, you roll out a different lineup every game, you're asking for your team to suck.

 

[klc123]

Really? Basically the same squad we had with Tito and Tata? The squad whose key players are aging and are declining (well, that's the consensus on this thread anyway)...

The only real upgrade is Suarez, and he was out for 4 months.

The same squad?
Now we have more defenders, we have rakitic who I think is a brilliant addition to the midfield to replace Xavi, we have rafinha to mix in and give Iniesta a break. Neymar and suarez are big upgrades to the attacking line up.

Even if we had the same squad your point is flawed. The squad we have underperformed under Tito and tata, due to bad management.

Everyone on this forum seems to be obsessed saying the squad is declining, what ever. The simple fact is that a player like cesc was deemed not good enough for us but under a different manager is the best midfielder in his league. Suarez was the best player in the epl last year. I know he was out, but it shouldn't have taken him this long to be firing on all cylinders. He obviously has the quality, and any lack of form when he had been trained by us for 6 months makes you question our coaches.

 

[Fibonacci]

When we played the good offensive teams, our defense looked pathetic. Don't let the clean sheets fool you. PSG had no troubles in Paris. Madrid destroyed our defense with its counter attacks. If we played Bayern again "right now," oh lord, i can't even imagine. So I really don't think our defense is that good if we had to face the best teams right now.

But with the type of offensive talent that we have, to struggle to score in so many games is just simply incredible. And that's due to Lucho's pathetic way of rotating players and thus there is no chemistry on the pitch to generate the type of continuity that is necessary for "Barca" football.

In any sports, you roll out a different lineup every game, you're asking for your team to suck.

I agree we didn't look good against top teams (though Lucho learned for the second match vs PSG), but this is bound to happen with a new coach. And don't dismiss our defensive strength. A couple of seasons ago we were conceding even against weak teams.

Maybe he's overrotated. But remember what people were complaining about the last few seasons? Surprise surprise it was that players were tired because there was no rotation.

 

[Fibonacci]

The same squad?
Now we have more defenders, we have rakitic who I think is a brilliant addition to the midfield to replace Xavi, we have rafinha to mix in and give Iniesta a break. Neymar and suarez are big upgrades to the attacking line up.

Even if we had the same squad your point is flawed. The squad we have underperformed under Tito and tata, due to bad management.

Everyone on this forum seems to be obsessed saying the squad is declining, what ever. The simple fact is that a player like cesc was deemed not good enough for us but under a different manager is the best midfielder in his league. Suarez was the best player in the epl last year. I know he was out, but it shouldn't have taken him this long to be firing on all cylinders. He obviously has the quality, and any lack of form when he had been trained by us for 6 months makes you question our coaches.

We have 1 new defender - Mathieu (I don't count Lord Douglas). We have Rakitic and Rafinha, but lost Cesc who is better than either of them. Whether those two are any good is to be seen. They're not yet Iniesta nad Xavi replacements, though hopefully they'll become them. Neymar we had last season. So Suarez is the main new guy.

We "underperformed" under Tito and Tata? Maybe. But if the same players "underperform" under ever new coaches, maybe the issue is not always the coach... At any rate, if Lucho is doing no worse than those two then surely sacking him 5 months in with no replacement in sight is harsh and unintelligent?

Look I'm not saying Lucho is the best manager in the world. I don't know if he'll come good. But you can't sack managers every 5 months when we're competing on all fronts.