10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[CatalinR10]

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

You see this video, imo, showcases why we should consider dropping Messi into the MF. His best moments are when he drops deep, becomes involved in the build-up and has room to run into right at the edge of the box. Very rarely did you see Messi starting a move inside the box or within the area, most of it is deeper and closer to the half-line than the byline.

I love Messi and I think he had a fabulous game against Valencia, not sure why people are thinking he had a lazy showing. My only problem with Messi's current game, and its been like this since the 2nd half of last season, is his lack of run-making. A lot of the leg work as far as making runs and creating movement in the box is reliant upon our wingers, and that's not due to laziness on Messi's part, its simply how the false 9 system works. The lack of central presence in the box allows teams to form a line at the box and close down the space that Messi can run into and to get to my point, I think due to how Messi has evolved as a player and how the team has evolved over the last few years, its making more and more sense to get a traditional 9 in the summer.

Case and point, 4-0 against Milan last year where we used two wingers with Messi behind Villa. It worked like a charm, their defensive lines were pushed back and Messi had so much space to maneuver.


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

With Messi in the MF and three forwards in front of him, a team that is setup like Atletico (the sort of setup we encounter often in CL) there is simply too much to deal with up top for them to be compact without giving Messi space. That forward in the center keeps defenses honest and I think it would allow Messi more freedom than and give our team more offensive options. For example, the wing spread to the back door cross would be a lot more effective with a center striker.

This isn't to say the false 9 doesn't work, I just think this is the natural evolution of Pep's system into Tata's system and I think a traditional striker would add a lot to this team. Teams have wised up to the current system and this sort of change would send teams back to the drawing board and send us back to the winners circle.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Puyol the wall]

You see this video, imo, showcases why we should consider dropping Messi into the MF. His best moments are when he drops deep, becomes involved in the build-up and has room to run into right at the edge of the box. Very rarely did you see Messi starting a move inside the box or within the area, most of it is deeper and closer to the half-line than the byline.

I love Messi and I think he had a fabulous game against Valencia, not sure why people are thinking he had a lazy showing. My only problem with Messi's current game, and its been like this since the 2nd half of last season, is his lack of run-making. A lot of the leg work as far as making runs and creating movement in the box is reliant upon our wingers, and that's not due to laziness on Messi's part, its simply how the false 9 system works. The lack of central presence in the box allows teams to form a line at the box and close down the space that Messi can run into and to get to my point, I think due to how Messi has evolved as a player and how the team has evolved over the last few years, its making more and more sense to get a traditional 9 in the summer.

Case and point, 4-0 against Milan last year where we used two wingers with Messi behind Villa. It worked like a charm, their defensive lines were pushed back and Messi had so much space to maneuver.


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

With Messi in the MF and three forwards in front of him, a team that is setup like Atletico (the sort of setup we encounter often in CL) there is simply too much to deal with up top for them to be compact without giving Messi space. That forward in the center keeps defenses honest and I think it would allow Messi more freedom than and give our team more offensive options. For example, the wing spread to the back door cross would be a lot more effective with a center striker.

This isn't to say the false 9 doesn't work, I just think this is the natural evolution of Pep's system into Tata's system and I think a traditional striker would add a lot to this team. Teams have wised up to the current system and this sort of change would send teams back to the drawing board and send us back to the winners circle.

Just some food for thought.

good post, if we still had pep at the helm then this would be a disaster imo, pep wanted to use as many midfielders as possible coz tiki taka requires midfielders in the mold of xavi and busi, but under tata i think this line up could be successful, this goes without saying that his direct approach requires a traditional number 9, my only concern would be being overrun by top sides in midfield, deploying neymar and alexis to play a bit deeper might help

 

[DinhoR10]

Umm Idk if its just me but It seems to me that messi's kicking style changed last season. Before he seemed to kick like everyone else but last season and this season sometimes his kicking leg doesnt bend as much, it seems to generate more power with a shorter kicking action thus needing less space (Look at the first milan goal for a good example). I don't know if i'm reading into this too much or if its common knowledge but just a thought.

 

[raskolnikov]

Just seems that way cause most of his shots are blocked or 5 players try to jump in front of it. Nobody is as good as Messi is with almost no space at all.
Whenerver I watch epl and I see players have so much time for a shot and still miss I usally feel messi would score 40 goals and just walk trough those few defenders with the space that is available.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Umm Idk if its just me but It seems to me that messi's kicking style changed last season. Before he seemed to kick like everyone else but last season and this season sometimes his kicking leg doesnt bend as much, it seems to generate more power with a shorter kicking action thus needing less space (Look at the first milan goal for a good example). I don't know if i'm reading into this too much or if its common knowledge but just a thought.

I don't know if it's a new thing. It's not generating *more* power, but may well be generating as much power. The force is about 3 things 1) speed, 2) mass, 3) contact with the ball. If he can generate as much speed with a short backswing as with a full windup, it's just as powerful (with the advantage of it being quicker and less likely to be blocked). Messi is certainly one of the best at getting a shot off quickly.

If you are a player, try it yourself; see how much speed you can generate through the ball with a shorter backswing.

 

[Behrox]

If often envy the space the rest of the top clubs are afforded in the final third and then there is the bus we find 8/10 times while attacking

 

[serghei]

I believe he runs about 8 per game while the average forward does about 10.5. But Messi isn't the average forward. His output per minute ran is extraordinaryly high, so the question is would his output increase or decrease if he ran more? I think we should let our coach make that call. It's silly for people to act like they know any better.

It was extraordinary high in 2009-2012. It's not that high anymore. That's why he should run more. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the future months. I'm gonna let it slide until then. Some people here get pissed off really fast if Messi's name gets mentioned in some neg. comments.

 

[BarçAjax8]

You see this video, imo, showcases why we should consider dropping Messi into the MF. His best moments are when he drops deep, becomes involved in the build-up and has room to run into right at the edge of the box. Very rarely did you see Messi starting a move inside the box or within the area, most of it is deeper and closer to the half-line than the byline.

I love Messi and I think he had a fabulous game against Valencia, not sure why people are thinking he had a lazy showing. My only problem with Messi's current game, and its been like this since the 2nd half of last season, is his lack of run-making. A lot of the leg work as far as making runs and creating movement in the box is reliant upon our wingers, and that's not due to laziness on Messi's part, its simply how the false 9 system works. The lack of central presence in the box allows teams to form a line at the box and close down the space that Messi can run into and to get to my point, I think due to how Messi has evolved as a player and how the team has evolved over the last few years, its making more and more sense to get a traditional 9 in the summer.

Case and point, 4-0 against Milan last year where we used two wingers with Messi behind Villa. It worked like a charm, their defensive lines were pushed back and Messi had so much space to maneuver.


Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

With Messi in the MF and three forwards in front of him, a team that is setup like Atletico (the sort of setup we encounter often in CL) there is simply too much to deal with up top for them to be compact without giving Messi space. That forward in the center keeps defenses honest and I think it would allow Messi more freedom than and give our team more offensive options. For example, the wing spread to the back door cross would be a lot more effective with a center striker.

This isn't to say the false 9 doesn't work, I just think this is the natural evolution of Pep's system into Tata's system and I think a traditional striker would add a lot to this team. Teams have wised up to the current system and this sort of change would send teams back to the drawing board and send us back to the winners circle.

Just some food for thought.

Great post! I like the ideas and would love to see how that system would work. We definitely couldn't do it successfully with 2 attacking fullbacks though.

For me the only issue *indirectly* with Messi is that we can't buy a striker because that striker will be forced to the wings. Wether it's because Messi likes/wants to play through the middle or management only wants him there now is the question. Messi clearly still can play with strikers as he has to with Aguero/Tevez/Higuain for Argentina. In the match you mentioned against Milan our front line was Pedro - Villa - Messi. While Messi started on the RW it was a free role and his best moments came when he arrived into central areas. Milan were not ready for this and all the swapping Villa/Messi/Pedro did destroyed they're defense. When Messi is at False 9 we are easier to defend against. Messi drops deep and we are left with basically no forwards which leaves the opposition CBs and DMFs relaxed as theres 4 defenders Messi would have to go through so most likely the ball is going out wide. From there none of our below 5'9 forwards are latching onto any crosses. I really want to balance out our front (and back) line and as much as most people are opposed to it, have a Striker in the central position but giving Messi a free role. It would always leave a CF to harass defenders, a winger to go wide to and leaving Messi to pop-up anywhere he wants rather than only areas where he is marked by 4-5 players.

 

[Kerrybai]

It was extraordinary high in 2009-2012. It's not that high anymore. That's why he should run more. Anyway, I guess we'll see in the future months. I'm gonna let it slide until then. Some people here get pissed off really fast if Messi's name gets mentioned in some neg. comments.

It's also worth noting that distance covered stats tell us very little about a players effort in a game. While one play might cover 12km at a slow speed, other players may be covering 9km with a lot of varied sprinting.

 

[serghei]

It's also worth noting that distance covered stats tell us very little about a players effort in a game. While one play might cover 12km at a slow speed, other players may be covering 9km with a lot of varied sprinting.

In his position, it's not about the actual distance being covered but the constant movement being made in a relatively limited space (area wise). I don't expect him to go running like a mad man back and forth, but, instead, I do expect him to be constantly active, ready to engage at any time in a potentialy dangerous action for the opponent. And, in all fairness, he doesn't always seem to be connected to the game, willing to ask for the ball. I've seen him plenty of times just walking and waiting to be played without making himself available.

 

[Alarcón]

In his position, it's not about the actual distance being covered but the constant movement being made in a relatively limited space (area wise). I don't expect him to go running like a mad man back and forth, but, instead, I do expect him to be constantly active, ready to engage at any time in a potentialy dangerous action for the opponent. And, in all fairness, he doesn't always seem to be connected to the game, willing to ask for the ball. I've seen him plenty of times just walking and waiting to be played without making himself available.

Good post. Honestly, I don't even care if he takes part in the pressing, but when we have the ball, he has to make himself available and be a part of our attacking play. Hopefully he'll do that today.

 

[CatalinR10]

 

[ThwiX]

He's doing great, best match for a while.

 

[CatalinR10]