10 - Lionel Messi - v3

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footyfan

Calma, calma
I was really mad at him for the past couple of days, but whatever, moving on...

There are a ton of issues with the team but here I'll focus on Messi:

Barcelona desperately need a striker because their attack is still very Messi-dependent. Messi's game suffers immensely if he doesn't get touches on the ball (or) if he gets infrequent touches of the ball. He doesn't possess Ronaldo or some other players' ability to be complete garbage and still deliver the goods because his game is entirely dependent on ball skills and combinations on the ball. Thus, it should be Barcelona's priority to get him the ball in good positions.

The false 9 system doesn't work anymore because 1) Messi doesn't have the required work-rate and movement anymore 2) Teams have figured out Messi's favourite ways of playing and combining, i.e I agree with Ode to Django that Messi's game has become stale. With Pep, Barca and Messi were always one step ahead of the game:

-surprise false 9s in 2-6 vs Madrid and 2-0 vs Utd in 2009
-playing behind Ibra and 4-2-4s in 2009/10
-false 9 in 2010/11
-playmaking and 3-4-3s in 2011/12

For the past 2 seasons, literally every top team knows what Messi is gonna do and it seems like neither he nor Barca want to make changes (retarded!!). Only Ancelotti was dumb enough not to use the tactics from Mou which shut Messi down completely last year.

Buy a striker, sacrifice the width (the striker can occupy this position if required), put Messi in a more attacking midfielder role and let him run games.

Sad, roundabout way of trying to solve the real issue - the best option would be to keep the formation, buy a new midfielder, Messi ups his work rate and movement, the team presses (the CF is the most important cog in any pressing system - it always starts at the top; how pathetic is it to see Xavi and Cesc jog up to the opposing team to put cursory pressure while Messi strolls around) and finds spaces faster. It is the game that suits the rest of the Barcelona players best. Xavi Iniesta Busquets Neymar Pique Masch - these are not players that are entirely comfortable with running up and down the pitch - they'd much prefer that the ball is won quickly and high up the pitch.

What in the world stopped Tata from reinstating the pressing game from the beginning of the season?

I hold Tata primarily responsible for the loss but I expected a lot lot more from Messi who might as well have been wearing red and white.
 

sickstar

New member
The posts in these thread is getting awful the past few days.
I really hope messi read this thread and leave barca right away.
By that maybe some people would be pleased.
Like someone state, Barca looks more dangerous without messi. His problem is solved.
 

sickstar

New member
I got a feeling if messi did just 100m more and he scored 2 goals to win barca, nobody would give a shit about his run rate.
True he work less, but if the outcome is still positive, who really care?
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
I was really mad at him for the past couple of days, but whatever, moving on...

There are a ton of issues with the team but here I'll focus on Messi:

Barcelona desperately need a striker because their attack is still very Messi-dependent. Messi's game suffers immensely if he doesn't get touches on the ball (or) if he gets infrequent touches of the ball. He doesn't possess Ronaldo or some other players' ability to be complete garbage and still deliver the goods because his game is entirely dependent on ball skills and combinations on the ball. Thus, it should be Barcelona's priority to get him the ball in good positions.

The false 9 system doesn't work anymore because 1) Messi doesn't have the required work-rate and movement anymore 2) Teams have figured out Messi's favourite ways of playing and combining, i.e I agree with Ode to Django that Messi's game has become stale. With Pep, Barca and Messi were always one step ahead of the game:

-surprise false 9s in 2-6 vs Madrid and 2-0 vs Utd in 2009
-playing behind Ibra and 4-2-4s in 2009/10
-false 9 in 2010/11
-playmaking and 3-4-3s in 2011/12

For the past 2 seasons, literally every top team knows what Messi is gonna do and it seems like neither he nor Barca want to make changes (retarded!!). Only Ancelotti was dumb enough not to use the tactics from Mou which shut Messi down completely last year.

Messi had 5 goals and 1 assist against Mourinho's Real last season, hardly shutting down.

Stop talking out of your ass, someone earlier in this tread posted links from earlier seasons, Messi's workrate has hardly changed, its been like this for years, what has changed are his touches and the team decling further.
 

footyfan

Calma, calma
Messi had 5 goals and 1 assist against Mourinho's Real last season, hardly shutting down.

3 of the 5 goals had nothing to do with tactics (1 penalty + 2 free kicks). 4th goal came from Pepe mistake, again not something a tactic can stop. By shut down, I mean they gave him no space and stopped him from playing his favoured game.

Stop talking out of your ass, someone earlier in this tread posted links from earlier seasons, Messi's workrate has hardly changed, its been like this for years, what has changed are his touches and the team decling further.

2 of those links posted pertain to last season, so they actually corroborate my argument. The 3rd one belongs to 2010/11 and if the bleacherreport article is to be believed (the link to the UEFA stats is broken), he ran 6-7 km per game in the CL. That seems completely unbelievable IMO because his current average is 8+ km per game which means he has actually upped his work rate over the years.
 

iniesta_8

New member
I was really mad at him for the past couple of days, but whatever, moving on...

There are a ton of issues with the team but here I'll focus on Messi:

Barcelona desperately need a striker because their attack is still very Messi-dependent. Messi's game suffers immensely if he doesn't get touches on the ball (or) if he gets infrequent touches of the ball. He doesn't possess Ronaldo or some other players' ability to be complete garbage and still deliver the goods because his game is entirely dependent on ball skills and combinations on the ball. Thus, it should be Barcelona's priority to get him the ball in good positions.

The false 9 system doesn't work anymore because 1) Messi doesn't have the required work-rate and movement anymore 2) Teams have figured out Messi's favourite ways of playing and combining, i.e I agree with Ode to Django that Messi's game has become stale. With Pep, Barca and Messi were always one step ahead of the game:

-surprise false 9s in 2-6 vs Madrid and 2-0 vs Utd in 2009
-playing behind Ibra and 4-2-4s in 2009/10
-false 9 in 2010/11
-playmaking and 3-4-3s in 2011/12

For the past 2 seasons, literally every top team knows what Messi is gonna do and it seems like neither he nor Barca want to make changes (retarded!!). Only Ancelotti was dumb enough not to use the tactics from Mou which shut Messi down completely last year.

Buy a striker, sacrifice the width (the striker can occupy this position if required), put Messi in a more attacking midfielder role and let him run games.

Sad, roundabout way of trying to solve the real issue - the best option would be to keep the formation, buy a new midfielder, Messi ups his work rate and movement, the team presses (the CF is the most important cog in any pressing system - it always starts at the top; how pathetic is it to see Xavi and Cesc jog up to the opposing team to put cursory pressure while Messi strolls around) and finds spaces faster. It is the game that suits the rest of the Barcelona players best. Xavi Iniesta Busquets Neymar Pique Masch - these are not players that are entirely comfortable with running up and down the pitch - they'd much prefer that the ball is won quickly and high up the pitch.

What in the world stopped Tata from reinstating the pressing game from the beginning of the season?

I hold Tata primarily responsible for the loss but I expected a lot lot more from Messi who might as well have been wearing red and white.

100% agree!
 
F

Flavia

Guest
Francesc Tomàs (ESPN):
"I find the current outrage against the best player in club history utterly hypocritical, tasteless and ungrateful.”
http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/barcelona/id/3178?cc=5739
+100500!
"Criticising professionals after just one below-par performance is certainly not the way forward. In Messi's particular case, I find the current outrage against the best player in club history utterly hypocritical, tasteless and ungrateful. Ultimately, the guy is still human and may be a little less brilliant from time to time. It is on those rare occasions when the rest of team should step up to make up the difference, rather than relying on the same player every time."


Indeed a great article... everyone should read. I bet most here didn't endure gaspart dark period.
 

serghei

Senior Member
A good article indeed. However, the decline of Barcelona is also the decline of Messi. When Barca shone, Messi shone. When Barca was bad, Messi was bad. With little exceptions. So, Barcelona's failure is Messi's failure too. Not everything falls on the board.
 

Stric

New member
A good article indeed. However, the decline of Barcelona is also the decline of Messi. When Barca shone, Messi shone. When Barca was bad, Messi was bad. With little exceptions. So, Barcelona's failure is Messi's failure too. Not everything falls on the board.

Little exceptions? Bullshit. The entire 2012/2013 season was all Messi. 100 points in the League. And it is no coincedence that we got humiliated in the CL and started declining further at the same time he got injured.
 
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