10 - Lionel Messi - v3

[Ursegor]

I would recommend to erase this Almeria game from memory. It hasn't been discussed on here but the plane had problems after the Ajax game in Amsterdam so the team returned on Thursday only 2 days before another away trip to Almeria. Fairly certain it played a huge part in that performance. It's also nothing new that Messi has to play deeper whenever Iniesta is injured. This was such a worst case game, this is really not the best showcase for Messi's role this season at all.

 

[Sumlit]

Going to more entertaining stuff, this is courtesy of an actually good Barcelona twitter follow (the humorous ones are the best follows) @Barzaboy

In light of Messi's new nickname "The Motherfucker", courtesy of Cristiano:

and

[video]https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/5DD33D8E741144054255578390528_210bbfff5c5.5.1.8032 641781360357230.mp4?versionId=XeEFcXXZ3CQ8AGrcpP2z waqzlcojf2Fc[/video]

 

[Sumlit]

And of course:

 

[footyfan]

I know this is Barcaforum and we are hardly impartial, certainly not when it comes to Ronaldo and Real Madrid players, but still, it is amazing that every element of Messi's game is being questioned after every scoreless/average/poor game while Ronaldo is getting away with everything as long as he scored, no matter how, no matter what.

There are three things that Ronaldo does better than Messi currently, in my opinion: (1) workrate (2) off the ball movement (3) poacher instinct/ability to finish. Make no mistake, he is a great goal-scorer, the best at the moment. However, the fact of the matter is, nobody gives a damn how poorly he plays as long as he manages to score and he is hailed THE BEST simply because of goals he scored.

Meanwhile, every element of Messi's game is put under the microscope when he doesn't score and people always find something to blame him for, and attribute the failure to some sort of intrinsic quality of him being poor/declining etc. For example, he was indeed very unlucky in the Celta game. Could his decisions have been better? Yes, but the fact he couldn't score had much more to do with the amazing performance of the Celta keeper than Messi's own failure.

By the URL, I meant you mentioned that you spent a lot time on other sites defending Messi that you felt you had to balance it out by being more critical of him here?

I don't remember ever talking about any other site. I've criticized Ronaldo a number of times on this forum itself and I've never hidden that I am a Ronaldo fan. I have to talk about Messi because I keep seeing excuses given for him over and over again, excuses that I think are completely unwarranted. And (obviously) I dont see any excuses given for Ronaldo, which is why I never have to talk about it. Another reason, as Ghost mentioned, is simply the expectations from Messi. Here's a reddit comment that perfectly sums up what I think of Messi nowadays.

His teammates aren't the reason why he is missing easy chances on a regular basis.
His teammates aren't the reason why he barely runs when Barcelona don't have possession.
Let's be serious here. Messi has always been an incredible playmaker. He's tallied extremely high assist totals and he's created some of the highest amount of chances in Europe.
Messi dropping deeper isn't making him any better. He's not a better playmaker than he was in 2010-11. He's not a better dribbler than he was in 2010-11. He's not a better scorer than he was in 2010-11.
Messi has declined, only the most delusional of his fanboys would disagree with that. The crucial thing to point out is that he is declining from the most dominant period a single footballer has ever played.
Messi has gone from playing consistently at GOAT level from 2010-2012 to playing a level below that from 2013-now.
He's arguably the best footballer in the world. But you have to remember that in 2011, Messi was by absolute miles the best footballer in the world.
Yeah, it's unfair to Messi. But that's only because he set the bar too high.

 

[NotInHere]

Damn that sums up Messi pretty well, we will never see 08-12 Messi again

 

[Egert]

Martino (coach ARG): "Messi will again play as right winger in our next games, because otherwise we have too many centre forwards."

...

 

[KingMessi]

Martino (coach ARG): "Messi will again play as right winger in our next games, because otherwise we have too many centre forwards."

Why not play 4-2-3-1 with Messi at 10? Is Tata going to play 4-4-2?

 

[Kerrybai]

Another reason, as Ghost mentioned, is simply the expectations from Messi. Here's a reddit comment that perfectly sums up what I think of Messi nowadays.

To be honest I have never grasped this view point. If you take a great player and put him in a lesser team then naturally he will not perform as well, and that is the case with Messi. That Pep team had all the right ingredients and became arguably the best side in the last 2 decades. You don't just take out Pep and all those other ingredients and then expect Messi to perform at that same level.

Damn that sums up Messi pretty well, we will never see 08-12 Messi again

Of course we won't see 08-12 Messi again, he was part of this centuries greatest club side.

The season is young so to be discussing his finishing at this length is a bit unfair. The sample size is just too low for judging his conversion rate.

 

[Icarium]

Prime messi was GOAT. Current Messi is still the best of this generation. I am sure with better midfield he will perform much better.

 

[Hamzah]

He lost two things from his game. His finishing and his off ball movement, even though his finishing is still good it has gotten worse. He is Definetly worse off the ball now, rarely ever presses.

The only tactical issue is that the midfielders are a bit far away from him, but he is still getting the ball where he likes it and there is two strikers infrint instead of two wingers, so I dint think that's a problem either.

He is actually playing well this season apart from his scoring forum.

 

[Peerless]

^ I agree with you. He is much better than last season. All that's missing is his finishing and with the arrival of Suarez he is getting more opportunities on goal. Once he puts in a few in the back of the net consecutively, his finishing will be much better. His confidence is very low. I'm not sure if he'll ever get back his killer instinct from 2012, but once he starts finishing off those chances he's been given his confidence will increase and he'll start scoring much more regularly.

With the chances he's had in front of goal this season he really should have 20 goals by now.

 

[dakt]

He lost two things from his game. His finishing and his off ball movement, even though his finishing is still good it has gotten worse. He is Definetly worse off the ball now, rarely ever presses.

The only tactical issue is that the midfielders are a bit far away from him, but he is still getting the ball where he likes it and there is two strikers infrint instead of two wingers, so I dint think that's a problem either.

He is actually playing well this season apart from his scoring forum.

For fuk sake, couple of misses are not enough to state that. This season I seen some goals which require great set of skills and accuracy. Couple of them were made from impossible conditions.
He lost none of it. Off ball movement is discussable but finishing is here to stay.

 

[Gaudi]

Honestly I think he lost stamina, Energy or something in that Department, everything else just follows that, a bit slower in dribbling, bit slower acceleration, off ball movement etc.
Like iamrohith said, he was GOAT now he is still the best for me but discussion about CR for example is not funny anymore, it has some merits.

 

[gatsu]

Nostalgia misleads our judgment, go back to see Pep's team in its prime, full matchs and not youtube 5 min videos (we were slower than what people think), people are overestimating way too much the old Messi, yes he was the best player in the world and still is, but he was not some god coming from a fairytale.

 

[serghei]

What some people don't realise here is that workrate and off the ball movement are key components of the football played today. Nobody asks Messi to be the kind of player that runs 12km per game, but Ronaldo has the edge at the moment (and you can dissagree with me on this of course) because he has a better (for sports), more competitive mentality/personality. The man lives for records, rivalries and stardom, unlike Messi, who's an introvert. Ronaldo can motivate himself, and that motivation comes from his selfish nature, he wants to be the best, he wants to be seen above other players. Messi doesn't care about that sort of thing. He is not able to motivate himself to the degree Ronaldo is precisely because of his sensitive nature. He can't turn anger into productiveness.

For a competitive sport like football, Ronaldo has the ultimate mentality. Messi is more talented, has more genius in him, has the better vision by far, and can do things with the ball that can make your jaw drop.

We all want Messi to turn things around on his own, but he isn't and wasn't that kind of player. Ever. I can't remember one huge game we played really really bad and won it because of Messi. He was decisive all the time, but only in a healthy team. He is at his best when he is happy. His form and productiveness are in tight connection with the team. That is why Messi should not be a particular case. Bring back the harmony and cohesiveness iside the team, and you will see the old Messi back.