10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[El Flaco]

For 10 years ago from today, a 17 year-old Messi played against Juventus in Gamper Trophy

[youtube]/watch?v=--MfAZvAobc[/youtube]

 

[kilian]

I don't know what you're trying to prove.
The CB was already 5 yards out of position tracking Messi by the time Rakitic even controls the ball.
The number one rule for a defence is that the two CB's should move around like there is a rubber band tied around them. The bigger the gap between them the easier it is to split a defence down the middle. Suarez is exactly where that CB should have been, if he hadn't moved forward to follow Messi before.

I`m just stating the obvious. There are players closing down Messi, but it isn`t the reason Suarez is left all by himself. If you don`t see that even better from the video, I can`t help you.

End of discussion from my side.

 

[Sumlit]

No. Watch the video again. Rakitic`s feint moves the defence out of balance, you can clearly see that. They were expecting his lob ball for Suarez and went for offside trap. But Rakitic did a fantastic feint and passed the ball to Alba instead. That was the reason why they didn`t have time to recover. Not Messi. For the third time.

Although one of them did try to close down Messi. But there were 4 other players in the line.

It's blatantly obvious Laporte leaves a huge hole because he's too concerned with Messi. The RB gets faked out by Rakitic's feint, but he's also initially concerned by Messi. If you don't want to see it, that's your mistake.

 

[doublehh03]

The goal was due to fantastic ball from Rakitic, great run from Alba and fantastic finish from Suarez.

Nothing to do with Messi.

Watch the whole sequence. When the pass was made, the 2 defenders were occupied by Messi as they were closest to him and nobody was marking Suarez.

Or do you even watch football?

 

[doublehh03]

In the picture posted above all I can see is a brainfart by Athletic defense. 3 players around Suarez, no one marking him. Nothing to do with Messi.

In general I agree with you, Messi attracts a lot of attention from opponents and that creates space for Neymar and Suarez. But not in this case.

LOL, now it's obvious you don't watch football. Or any sports. Just stop.

 

[doublehh03]

Yeah it's not obvious from the picture. In the picture it just looks like terrible defending/communication between the CBs. But when you watch the video you see that the CB was completely out of position as Messi came deeper to look for the ball, which gave Suarez all the space in the world.

Like I said though, I'm not part of the Messi circle-jerk, I just give credit where it is due. Suarez creates just as much space for Neymar and Messi with his running in behind defenders.



I don't know what you're trying to prove.
The CB was already 5 yards out of position tracking Messi by the time Rakitic even controls the ball.
The number one rule for a defence is that the two CB's should move around like there is a rubber band tied around them. The bigger the gap between them the easier it is to split a defence down the middle. Suarez is exactly where that CB should have been, if he hadn't moved forward to follow Messi before.

In short, if that is any other player in the world, the CB would ignore him and leave him to be picked up by the DCM. Because it's Messi and they were obviously told to give him 0 space in between the lines he follows him. Because of this Suarez has much more space at the back post when alba crosses the ball in. This isn't difficult analysis, this is elementary stuff.

Messi usually will be Messi regardless of the defense (as shown by the great run he had at the end). But they marked him pretty well. It was a great game by Bilbao.

 

[kilian]

It's blatantly obvious Laporte leaves a huge hole because he's too concerned with Messi. The RB gets faked out by Rakitic's feint, but he's also initially concerned by Messi. If you don't want to see it, that's your mistake.

I see it and agree that Messi definitely dragged some opponents from their position. The guy is a magnet for opponents. Just saying that this goal was a product of a number of errors from Bilbao and fantastic team play from our side, not only Messi opening space.

 

[kilian]

LOL, now it's obvious you don't watch football. Or any sports. Just stop.

I don`t discuss with 5-year olds, so you can give it a rest.

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Two bilbao defenders, who up until then had played a flawless game, were found yards away from Suarez? Messi creates room for his team mates...

Not in this case. Atletico plays like Athletic, with double banks that bulge towards the encroaching man with the ball, whether it is Messi, or anyone else. The goal was the result of the space behind Atletico's high line that should have been exploited better and more often. It had to do with the accuracy of Rakitic's ball, the speed of Alba, and the quickness of Alba's release. Atletico simply got caught out.

Nearly every other promising moment came from a Messi touch. His teammates didn't get him the ball nearly often enough. Here are some typical shots, from only the first period:

 

[BerkeleyBernie]

Because it's Messi and they were obviously told to give him 0 space in between the lines he follows him.

See my screen shots above. Clearly this is not the case. Messi was wandering around open between the lines all game. Atletico simply closes down on the point of attack, no matter which player has the ball.

 

[ThwiX]

See my screen shots above. Clearly this is not the case. Messi was wandering around open between the lines all game. Atletico simply closes down on the point of attack, no matter which player has the ball.

He did have Balenziaga keeping an eye on him and following him again. When I noticed Balenziaga was injured and had to be subbed out, I told myself, "Game over, Bilbao". There was instantly much more space for Messi and our team, and we went on to create several good chances and scored.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

In all screenshots posted: Look where the ball is and in which direction it is going. Of course Messi is left kinda free there. It is either impossible for him to get the ball in those situations or he is in a position that is not dangerous in any way.

 

[Luftstalag14]

 

[klc123]

I`m just stating the obvious. There are players closing down Messi, but it isn`t the reason Suarez is left all by himself. If you don`t see that even better from the video, I can`t help you.

End of discussion from my side.

It wasn't a debate in the first place. I don't need your help, don't worry.

Not in this case. Atletico plays like Athletic, with double banks that bulge towards the encroaching man with the ball, whether it is Messi, or anyone else. The goal was the result of the space behind Atletico's high line that should have been exploited better and more often. It had to do with the accuracy of Rakitic's ball, the speed of Alba, and the quickness of Alba's release. Atletico simply got caught out.

Nearly every other promising moment came from a Messi touch. His teammates didn't get him the ball nearly often enough. Here are some typical shots, from only the first period:

http://www.berdu.com/images/messi-space-bilbao.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Aren't you the guy who persistently said that Pedro was better than Neymar?
No offence, but I think I'll take your tactical analysis with a pinch of salt.
Everyone else in this forum can understand how the CB man-marking Messi resulted in extra space in the back 4. I don't know why you two are being so obtuse.

[QUOTE="Blaugrana Bull, post: 1522547, member: 17059"]In all screenshots posted: Look where the ball is and in which direction it is going. Of course Messi is left kinda free there. It is either impossible for him to get the ball in those situations or he is in a position that is not dangerous in any way.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's really worth the discussion to be honest. Most of us seem to be able to grasp the concept of how positional play in football works. We should just leave it at that.

 

[serghei]

Messi goes up to receive between the lines, and Laporte knows that once he receives in space and gets to turn and move in on the defender, he's toast. So he tries to take Messi on early, foul him on his first touch maybe (you rarely get a yellow in these situations), but Messi is not played, Rakitic makes a feint and fools Riko (I think), who does nothing there, ball is played to Alba and then to Suarez, who's free in the middle of the box and scores with a venomous volley. Bilbao's defenders (both CBs) were slow there though, they must have been tired, because they really had time to get back in shape. The mistake was that when Laporte goes up to deal with Messi and don't let him receive the ball between the lines, someone else has to take care of Suarez. But the guy that was supposed to mark Suarez there tries to play a stupid offside trap and finds himself 5m off Suarez. He then finds Rafinha in his eyesight and decides to mark him .