10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[Zidane121]

Never understood why Zidane had such pathetic Record in Real Madrid. One fluke goal in Glasgow made him Legend forgetting the fact that He was failure in most of the season's with Galacticos

Zidane was a Midfielder, he set up a lot of goals, and was exceptional for France, 2 goals in WC 98 final and guided them to Euro 2000 victory and another WC 2006 final. Anyway this thread is not about Zidane, but Messi, who's failure with the NT time and again has to be questioned, for a player with his ability.

 

[Stric]

Messi, who's failure with the NT

This is why this discussion makes no sense. If you view this as failure, then obviously there's nothing to discuss further.

Argentina haven't been at the top of national football in decades, Messi brings them on the brink of #1 several times in a row, and somehow that is failure? But all other players and nations who don't even come close to the final are not? It's a reversed perspective, and it's just factually inaccurate. Argentina are the #2 ranked NT in the world, and in the Americas, despite not having nearly enough quality to be rated so high. That's an achievement, and a lot of that goes to Messi's credit. If you choose to view that as a failure, then as you wish.

 

[blaugrana1987]

If this had gone in...

 

[Zidane121]

This is why this discussion makes no sense. If you view this as failure, then obviously there's nothing to discuss further.

Argentina haven't been at the top of national football in decades, Messi brings them on the brink of #1 several times in a row, and somehow that is failure? But all other players and nations who don't even come close to the final are not?

If you're talking about other players like CR7 who have failed with the NT, well it's not much difference to Messi.

Portugal went to Euro 2004 Final, 06 WC semi final and lost to a penalty, could've easily not been given and Portugal could've gone to the WC 06 Final, I mean Arg only squeezed through on penalites with Holland in wc 2014 semi after it ended 0-0, and robben had great chances to win the match, Messi was non-existent. Euro 2012 Portugal went to the semi and lost on penalties to spain, coudl've easily been the other way round and portugal go to final, like how arg won penalties vs holland. And now Portugal in quarter final euro 2016 and will likely beat poland to go to the semi.

So how can people talk about CR7 failing and not Messi's failure with the NT? Both are similar. If you see Messi as success with the NT, then ronaldo also has success with the NT as i've just stated them in this post. CR7 has scored in 7 consecutive tournaments too, wc's and euros, a record. Need to be fair when making comparisons.

 

[Zidane121]

If this had gone in...

Yep would've been the undisputed GOAT, no debate.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Neuer was already beaten...The ball was struck to fast and Manuel was late on it, 10 cm to the right and its curtains. FFS...

 

[Zidane121]

Neuer was already beaten...The ball was struck to fast and Manuel was late on it, 10 cm to the right and its curtains. FFS...

yep the look on neuers face he thought it was in, but this was messi's only good chance in the game, he was playing too deep, needed to play higher up to get more chances and he would've scored 1 of them no doubt.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Zidane was a Midfielder, he set up a lot of goals, and was exceptional for France, 2 goals in WC 98 final and guided them to Euro 2000 victory and another WC 2006 final. Anyway this thread is not about Zidane, but Messi, who's failure with the NT time and again has to be questioned, for a player with his ability.

I am talking about Zidane The club failure . Not about his National team . Messi's role in Argentina is not different from So called Mid fielder Zidane's role in France. Messi is Argentina's all time highest assist provider and All time highest among all Copa America Nation's in that tourny. I am wondering why Zidane's club failure with Star studded team wasn't talked about like Messi for Argentina

 

[Stric]

If you're talking about other players like CR7 who have failed with the NT, well it's not much difference to Messi.

Portugal went to Euro 2004 Final, 06 WC semi final and lost to a penalty, could've easily not been given and Portugal could've gone to the WC 06 Final, I mean Arg only squeezed through on penalites with Holland in wc 2014 semi after it ended 0-0, and robben had great chances to win the match, Messi was non-existent. Euro 2012 Portugal went to the semi and lost on penalties to spain, coudl've easily been the other way round and portugal go to final, like how arg won penalties vs holland. And now Portugal in quarter final euro 2016 and will likely beat poland to go to the semi.

So how can people talk about CR7 failing and not Messi's failure with the NT? Both are similar. If you see Messi as success with the NT, then ronaldo also has success with the NT as i've just stated them in this post. CR7 has scored in 7 consecutive tournaments too, wc's and euros, a record. Need to be fair when making comparisons.

Yes, there's a whole lot of difference.

Primarily, when it comes to Portugal, you're talking about things that happened 10-12 years ago, whereas the Argentina issues we're talking about here are primarily from 2014-onwards. In each of those instances, Argentina played the final. Portugal didn't. I don't see how you can compare a team that's been in three finals in the last three years to a team that hasn't seen a decent knockout stage in 10 years and say "it's not much different". Of course there were close calls and things easily could have turned out differently for everyone, but you could say that for the counter argument as well, that only one penalty or one squeezed shot could have made Argentina champions.

Secondly, Messi has had plenty of incredible games for Argentina, including in the past month (except the final), whereas Cristiano with Portugal has been consistently very underwhelming for a good long while.

I don't see how this is similar. Messi generally plays very well with Argentina (although not as well as in Barcelona) and has consistently been carrying them to finals and silver medals. On the other hand, Cristiano and Portugal have accomplished literally jack shit in the last ten years and were easily the worst squad to make it to the round of 16 last week.

So scoring for the NT without winning games is an accomplishment now?

 

[Zidane121]

Yes, there's a whole lot of difference.

Primarily, when it comes to Portugal, you're talking about things that happened 10-12 years ago, whereas the Argentina issues we're talking about here are primarily from 2014-onwards. In each of those instances, Argentina played the final. Portugal didn't. I don't see how you can compare a team that's been in three finals in the last three years to a team that hasn't seen a decent knockout stage in 10 years and say "it's not much different". Of course there were close calls and things easily could have turned out differently for everyone, but you could say that for the counter argument as well, that only one penalty or one squeezed shot could have made Argentina champions.

Secondly, Messi has had plenty of incredible games for Argentina, including in the past month (except the final), whereas Cristiano with Portugal has been consistently very underwhelming for a good long while.

I don't see how this is similar. Messi generally plays very well with Argentina (although not as well as in Barcelona) and has consistently been carrying them to finals and silver medals. On the other hand, Cristiano and Portugal have accomplished literally jack shit in the last ten years and were easily the worst squad to make it to the round of 16 last week.

So scoring for the NT without winning games is an accomplishment now?

Look I'm not a fanboy of CR7 and gonna say he did brilliant with NT, i'm saying he overall failed with the NT, just like messi failed. Because At the end of the day, both of them won ZERO trophies with the NT, which is failure, doesn't matter how many finals. No one will remember or care about this once their career is over, people will just remember that they won nothing with the NT. Cruyff got to the WC final and lost, no one remembers or cares. It's about winning trophies.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

If you're talking about other players like CR7 who have failed with the NT, well it's not much difference to Messi.

Portugal went to Euro 2004 Final, 06 WC semi final and lost to a penalty, could've easily not been given and Portugal could've gone to the WC 06 Final, I mean Arg only squeezed through on penalites with Holland in wc 2014 semi after it ended 0-0, and robben had great chances to win the match, Messi was non-existent. Euro 2012 Portugal went to the semi and lost on penalties to spain, coudl've easily been the other way round and portugal go to final, like how arg won penalties vs holland. And now Portugal in quarter final euro 2016 and will likely beat poland to go to the semi.

So how can people talk about CR7 failing and not Messi's failure with the NT? Both are similar. If you see Messi as success with the NT, then ronaldo also has success with the NT as i've just stated them in this post. CR7 has scored in 7 consecutive tournaments too, wc's and euros, a record. Need to be fair when making comparisons.

Scored in 7 Tournaments , one penalty vs Iran in 2006, one tap in Vs 140 Ranked North korea in 2010 , one tap in Vs Ghana In 2014 when they were already knocked out . His only goal that's worth Remembering is vs Check republic in 2012 when hit the winner on 80th minute .. so fuck this deceiving stats. Messi literally scored When Argentina was yet to break deadlock in 2014 wc, Semi Final Goal vs Mexico in 2007 Copa , and Semi final Goal Vs Usa ( Usa Knocked out portugal in 2014 wc) in 2016 Copa. Messi Assisted Thrice in 2015 Copa Semi final vs Paraguay who were runner's up in previous edition. Christiano has only 6 Assist's in World cup Euro , Messi has 13 in Wc and Copa Combined. Now another information that will burn you - Ronaldo 0 goal's from 40 Attempted free kick's in international tournament , were as Messi has 3 , Messi has scored from outside box 5 times in international tournaments were as Ronaldo has Zero . Now go ahead with your comparison .

 

[blaugrana1987]

yep the look on neuers face he thought it was in, but this was messi's only good chance in the game, he was playing too deep, needed to play higher up to get more chances and he would've scored 1 of them no doubt.

Nah, Messi played in good position. He choked, really did. Entire Argentina choked. I'm looking at it right now...They should have beaten that German team. Messi made some wrong calls in that game, especially in 35th minute when Argentina broke through and he had Lavezzi on left completely open and he went for much tougher pass to Higuain on right and it was intercepted.

Another chance was when he broke Hummels and got infront of Neuer. Angle was tough, but he should have tried it under the leggs, they were wide open. Instead he went for a pass with no one in the box yet.

That WC was Messi choke job unfortunately. There were enough chances to score, he would have scored it with free mind, but like the time he needed one goal to take record from Zarra, he couldn't quite get it into net. I guess the pressure was to big...

 

[Zidane121]

Nah, Messi played in good position. He choked, really did. Entire Argentina choked. I'm looking at it right now...They should have beaten that German team. Messi made some wrong calls in that game, especially in 35th minute when Argentina broke through and he had Lavezzi on left completely open and he went for much tougher pass to Higuain on right and it was intercepted.

Another chance was when he broke Hummels and got infront of Neuer. Angle was tough, but he should have tried it under the leggs, they were wide open. Instead he went for a pass with no one in the box yet.

That WC was Messi choke job unfortunately. There were enough chances to score, he would have scored it with free mind, but like the time he needed one goal to take record from Zarra, he couldn't quite get it into net. I guess the pressure was to big...

Yeah true now i remember these chances,Arg could've won 3 or 4-1 easily.

 

[mampilly]

Look I'm not a fanboy of CR7 and gonna say he did brilliant with NT, i'm saying he overall failed with the NT, just like messi failed. Because At the end of the day, both of them won ZERO trophies with the NT, which is failure, doesn't matter how many finals. No one will remember or care about this once their career is over, people will just remember that they won nothing with the NT. Cruyff got to the WC final and lost, no one remembers or cares. It's about winning trophies.

Actually where are you living. Even In Our country, ( India,here Cricket is most popular game, football is not so much popular), every one always talking about 1974 loss , 1951 Marcana Tragedy, Pushkas Hungery (1954).

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Yeah true now i remember these chances,Arg could've won 3 or 4-1 easily.

would Have been 7-0 had Messi tried Zidane Volleys