10 - Lionel Messi - v4

[Flavia]

Cruyff got to the WC final and lost, no one remembers or cares. It's about winning trophies.

If that's your argument, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone remembers or heard of the netherlands 1974 wc team. I wasn't close to being born, and I know them and their legend. On the other hand, few people talk about that germany team that won. Of course argentina is nothing like that team, but trophies are not the only thing people remember. Same thing with Brazil from 82. They didn't win it, but are also talked about a lot.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Nah, Messi played in good position. He choked, really did. Entire Argentina choked. I'm looking at it right now...They should have beaten that German team. Messi made some wrong calls in that game, especially in 35th minute when Argentina broke through and he had Lavezzi on left completely open and he went for much tougher pass to Higuain on right and it was intercepted.

Another chance was when he broke Hummels and got infront of Neuer. Angle was tough, but he should have tried it under the leggs, they were wide open. Instead he went for a pass with no one in the box yet.

That WC was Messi choke job unfortunately. There were enough chances to score, he would have scored it with free mind, but like the time he needed one goal to take record from Zarra, he couldn't quite get it into net. I guess the pressure was to big...

And no credit for his efforts to reach there

 

[mampilly]

If that's your argument, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone remembers or heard of the netherlands 1974 wc team. I wasn't close to being born, and I know them and their legend. On the other hand, few people talk about that germany team that won. Of course argentina is nothing like that team, but trophies are not the only thing people remember. Same thing with Brazil from 82. They didn't win it, but are also talked about a lot.

he also talking about Crauf1974 .

 

[Flavia]

Nah, Messi played in good position. He choked, really did. Entire Argentina choked. I'm looking at it right now...They should have beaten that German team. Messi made some wrong calls in that game, especially in 35th minute when Argentina broke through and he had Lavezzi on left completely open and he went for much tougher pass to Higuain on right and it was intercepted.

Another chance was when he broke Hummels and got infront of Neuer. Angle was tough, but he should have tried it under the leggs, they were wide open. Instead he went for a pass with no one in the box yet.

That WC was Messi choke job unfortunately. There were enough chances to score, he would have scored it with free mind, but like the time he needed one goal to take record from Zarra, he couldn't quite get it into net. I guess the pressure was to big...

You can blame sabella's approach in the final for that. His subs also destroyed the little offense power they had. Still, argentina had the best chances. Higuain not scoring the pass from kroos was just absurd.

he also talking about Crauf1974 .

?

Cruyff played for the netherlands.

 

[blaugrana1987]

Sabella subbing Lavezzi was because of injury I think. Lavezzi was very good in that half. And no matter how bad Higuain was he was million miles better then Aguero who was partly injured as well.

 

[Zidane121]

If that's your argument, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone remembers or heard of the netherlands 1974 wc team. I wasn't close to being born, and I know them and their legend. On the other hand, few people talk about that germany team that won. Of course argentina is nothing like that team, but trophies are not the only thing people remember. Same thing with Brazil from 82. They didn't win it, but are also talked about a lot.

That's not my argument, I shouldn't have even mentioned Cruyff. The bottom line is, both CR7 and Messi have won loads of trophies at club level, but Zero trophies with NT, which will be seen by some people as failure with the NT, whichever way you look at it. Argentina fans want argentina to win world cups and copa americas, not keep getting to finals and losing.

 

[Flavia]

That's not my argument, I shouldn't have even mentioned Cruyff. The bottom line is, both CR7 and Messi have won loads of trophies at club level, but Zero trophies with NT, which will be seen by some people as failure with the NT, whichever way you look at it. Argentina fans want argentina to win world cups and copa americas, not keep getting to finals and losing.

That's what you said, so yes, it was your argument. That no one cares or remembers that Cruyff got to the final and lost. Which is not true.

Messi won a lot more trophies than cr as well. And he, at least, has a gold medal with the nt. Argentina getting to 3 finals in the last 3 years was actually an overachievement on their part. But it's Messi, so not winning means failure. But in reality it's far from it.

 

[Zidane121]

That's what you said, so yes, it was your argument. That no one cares or remembers that Cruyff got to the final and lost. Which is not true.

Messi won a lot more trophies than cr as well. And he, at least, has a gold medal with the nt. Argentina getting to 3 finals in the last 3 years was actually an overachievement on their part. But it's Messi, so not winning means failure. But in reality it's far from it.

You talked about Brazil 82', they are remembered, even though they didn't win it, because they played amazing unbelieveable football throughout the tournament. Did Argentina do that in 2014 wc? I don't think so. They scraped to the final, beating holland on penalties in the semi after it ended 0-0.

And Yeah you're right, because it's messi it's seen as failure, some other player getting to 3 finals and losing would be seen as success.

 

[Flavia]

You talked about Brazil 82', they are remembered, even though they didn't win it, because they played amazing unbelieveable football throughout the tournament. Did Argentina do that in 2014 wc? I don't think so. They scraped to the final, beating holland on penalties in the semi after it ended 0-0.

I said that in my post as well. So I don't get your question. Trying to deflect from your failed argument?

And Yeah you're right, because it's messi it's seen as failure, some other player getting to 3 finals and losing would be seen as success.

Actually, depending on the player, it really would. The narrative would be different. Instead of being called a failure, it'd be treated as "he dragged them to 3 finals, didn't win because they were unlucky. But he showed his greatness by taking them there". That's the power of the press and hype.

 

[Golazo]

If that's your argument, you couldn't be more wrong. Everyone remembers or heard of the netherlands 1974 wc team. I wasn't close to being born, and I know them and their legend. On the other hand, few people talk about that germany team that won. Of course argentina is nothing like that team, but trophies are not the only thing people remember. Same thing with Brazil from 82. They didn't win it, but are also talked about a lot.

Very good point. My 1st world cup was 86, but in terms of 74 I know more about the Holland team than Germany.

 

[jj_101]

there is little sense in taking back his decision .. knowing that Dumby Rojo's is gonna be waiting for him .. and the useless chickens who call themselves strikers

He must go back to the NT to PRESERVE his legacy. History will see him as a quitter if he doesn't go back. Even if he loses 20 finals, he cannot quit. It goes against the most basic spirit of sport, and it's not something that the GOAT does.
Argentina has always had a good NT (winning many CA's, lost in the 1930 final), yet they never won the world cup until 1978. Did they quit after 1974 because they hadn't won in 44 years? Quitting is not part of sport. He must learn to mentally block out his critics in order to prove them wrong. Only with a free mind can he play his best in a final.

 

[Iarwain]

Leo Messi's MAJOR FINALS RECORD:
2007 Copa America final: 90 mins, 0 goals
2014 World Cup final: 120 mins, 0 goals
2015 Copa America final: 120 mins, 0 goals
2016 Copa100 final: 120 mins, 0 goals
4 finals. 4 losses. 0 goals.

Funny to post this since Maradona never scored in a final too (and reached two less than Messi).

Since you hold goals in finals in high regard here is another fact for you:

In his WHOLE professional career (club+NT), Maradona scored only ONE major final goal: a penalty vs Stuttgart in 1989 UEFA Cup final. Counting minor competitions, Maradona scored two goals in two-legged Copa de la Liga, a Spanish incarnation of a "League Cup" that lasted for only 4 years before being cancelled.

Counting all finals they played, their goal count is:

Messi: 20
Maradona: 3

 

[NotInHere]

He must go back to the NT to PRESERVE his legacy. History will see him as a quitter if he doesn't go back. Even if he loses 20 finals, he cannot quit. It goes against the most basic spirit of sport, and it's not something that the GOAT does.
Argentina has always had a good NT (winning many CA's, lost in the 1930 final), yet the never won the world cup until 1978. Did they quit after 1974 because they hadn't won in 44 years? Quitting is not part of sport. He must learn to mentally block out his critics in order to prove them wrong. Only with a free mind can he play his best in a final.

the issue is that who knows if Messi and Argentina will ever play a final again, Messi is already 29 unfortunately and will slowly decline and will be less capable of dragging argentina to the final.

too bad they wasted their 3 whole opportunities

 

[jj_101]

the issue is that who knows if Messi and Argentina will ever play a final again, Messi is already 29 unfortunately and will slowly decline and will be less capable of dragging argentina to the final.

too bad they wasted their 3 whole opportunities

The only sure thing is that Messi will never get to a final again if he doesn't play.

 

[Kerrybai]

Lol at people saying the WC was a Messi choke job.

It's 11 vs 11 . This isn't an individual sport.

Nah, Messi played in good position. He choked, really did. Entire Argentina choked. I'm looking at it right now...They should have beaten that German team. Messi made some wrong calls in that game, especially in 35th minute when Argentina broke through and he had Lavezzi on left completely open and he went for much tougher pass to Higuain on right and it was intercepted.

Another chance was when he broke Hummels and got infront of Neuer. Angle was tough, but he should have tried it under the leggs, they were wide open. Instead he went for a pass with no one in the box yet.

That WC was Messi choke job unfortunately. There were enough chances to score, he would have scored it with free mind, but like the time he needed one goal to take record from Zarra, he couldn't quite get it into net. I guess the pressure was to big...

Right because Higuain missing the best chance makes it a Messi joke job.

The way some people are turning on him is sad.