10 - Lionel Messi - v4

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Altomonte

New member
Agreed, the European NT games are not at the same level as the best club games.
What makes them interesting is stories like Iceland's amazing performances.
It shows that coaches and teamwork really can make a difference.
The fact remains that events like the European Championship attract a very large number of viewers.
 

Zidane121

Banned
I think Argentina need Tevez back as striker, this isn't gonna keep working with higuain for messi in finals in particular.
 

Question17

New member
Agreed, the European NT games are not at the same level as the best club games.
What makes them interesting is stories like Iceland's amazing performances.
It shows that coaches and teamwork really can make a difference.
The fact remains that events like the European Championship attract a very large number of viewers.

National teams will never be as good as club teams. How can they be when these players don't spend a tenth of the time training and playing together as club teams. Its a team sport and somehow the highest level of soccer is expected to come out of players who barely see each other all year? I don't think its a coincidence that the last two world cup winning teams essentially imported stable parts of club teams like Spain with barca's midfield and Germany which was Bayern munch basically while these" throw everyone from around the world on a bus and just play" like Argentina came up short. . Not to mention the richest clubs can just buy the best players while national teams are stuck with inferior talent inevitably because of restrictions.

A lot of non soccer fans watch the international tourneys. I think a large portion of audience for these games just use it as way to express patriotism/national pride and could care less about soccer really, international games are just the best channel for expressing that so its soccer for those people but they could care less about everyday club soccer.
 

Total-Football

Senior Member
NT tournaments are what Nintindo Wii is for gaming .. it's a casual thing for the casual audience ..

the problem is that casual things get more exposure than the real deal .

bunch of players gathering around once every 3 mounths for 10 days .. having nothing in common in term of football tactics - complimentarity etc .. but the nationality they share .

most of the time i don't bother watching unless it's for iniesta messi etc ..
 

El Flaco

Active member
A great article from Diego Forlan, a legend himself...

Diego Forlan: Lionel Messi deserves proper recognition from Argentina, but should not retire

Messi, come back when you are ready, however it may take please.

Here's the full text Diego Forlan wrote on Messi.

Diego Forlan: Lionel Messi deserves proper recognition from Argentina, but should not retire

Diego Forlan writes a weekly column for The National, appearing each Friday. The former Manchester United, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid striker has been the top scorer in Europe twice and won the Golden Boot at the 2010 World Cup. Forlan’s column is written with the assistance of European football correspondent Andy Mitten.

I do not think the world’s best footballer should retire from playing for one of the world’s best national teams having just turned 29.

Lionel Messi has much to offer Argentina, but he was frustrated and upset after they lost another final, the latest against Chile in the final of Copa America.

After a break with friends and family and people who do not only know him as a professional footballer, I hope he reconsiders his decision.

He is one of the greatest players in the history of football and still has plenty of time to win a Copa America or World Cup. It is not like he is playing for a team who are not close to winning, either. Argentina have reached four finals with Messi and lost them all.

I understand why Messi is so upset. He gets a lot of abuse from his own people because he has not helped Argentina lift titles. It is unfair. I have heard what they say, that he has never played in Argentina, that his priorities are with Barcelona where he has been more successful.

That is nonsense.

Leo travels the world to play for his country. Barca would prefer that he did not, and it is not like he needs the money, is it? People do not see how players overcome conflicts with their club to play for their country.

I speak from experience. A manager may ask if it is really necessary to play for your country on the other side of the world. He might not be direct, but the inference will be clear that you will be on the bench when you return. The manager’s priority is his club, not the countries of his players.le who, quite frankly, do not know what they are talking about.

It will take time for Messi to come around to the idea of playing for Argentina again, if he ever does.

If he stops, it will be a shame. But he is still had an incredible international career, playing 113 times and scoring 55 goals.

He only needs one trophy with Argentina to silence the critics, but they need to look at themselves, too.

I understand that everyone has an opinion on football, that it is so popular that even people who know nothing about football have a strong opinion about it. That popularity brings the players fame, money and a great lifestyle, but popularity can breed contempt. It can breed envy and jealousy. It means a player is always being judged in every area of his life, with some people hoping that he will fail.

Maybe they do not realise that players have problems, too. They have family members with problems. They have things they cannot talk about in public because if they do they know that, people will have no sympathy with the famous millionaire footballer.

Leo is magnificent, yet people who do not know what they are talking about are criticising him.

If I went to one of the best architects or surgeons in the world and started criticising him, then I would need to be able to back up what I was saying, need to know what I was talking about. It is different in football. Everyone knows best, no matter if they have no experience of football.

That can frustrate players who can accept praise and criticism, but not the vicious personal criticism from people who, quite frankly, do not know what they are talking about.

Argentina actually played well in Copa America, too. Gonzalo Higuain had a very good chance in the final before it went to penalties. They have got a great generation of players and they regularly reach finals. They just do not win in finals and have not won a trophy since the Copa America in 1993.

Football can be like that. It is what makes it so great.

Messi really needs this break with family and friends. He has been playing football almost non-stop for three years. He has not had a summer without a tournament since 2013.

Barca fans will be happy if he is going to retire, just as Manchester United fans were when Paul Scholes stopped playing for England. But Argentina need Messi on and off the pitch. Imagine how stupid they would look if their own people turned their best player off from representing a brilliant football country?

Argentine fans are among the best in the world. They are really loud and colourful, but when you have a mixture of passion and emotion, frustration and anger come into it when things do not go well.

When things have calmed down, though, they need to realise that they are stronger with Messi than without him. Lose their best players and they will not be making finals on a regular basis as they have.

While we are focussing on the losers, we must also credit the winners.

Chile have retained the Copa America by playing well and beating Argentina in the final again. They beat Mexico 7-0, they played very well against Colombia. They are worthy champions, just as Iceland were worthy victors against England in Euro 2016.

The main story was England losing, yet I watched the game and was most impressed with how Iceland kept the ball, how they passed so well, created chances and counter attacked.

As with Chile, their victory was no fluke. It is they who will go into the Confederations Cup next year. Argentina will have to wait another year for the World Cup finals in Russia. Let us hope Messi is back for that one.

At least he can have a rest next summer. He deserves it. He needs it.
 

blaugrana1987

New member
R9 said the same thing. Champs know this is no way to go out, R9 could have offed himself after two ligament tears when he was by far best player in the world, he didnt. He came back and scored brace in WC final
 

sickstar

New member
You obviously missed last year's shoots out. Messi scored, Higuain and Banega missed.
Anyway, the responsables for this loss are Rojo, Di MAria, Higuain and Aguero. Period

I understand what you're saying, but why in final? Combination between Messi and Higuain alone produce two or three goals before. Actually the correct one isn't chokein but chokeinfinals.
 

sickstar

New member
National teams will never be as good as club teams. How can they be when these players don't spend a tenth of the time training and playing together as club teams. Its a team sport and somehow the highest level of soccer is expected to come out of players who barely see each other all year? I don't think its a coincidence that the last two world cup winning teams essentially imported stable parts of club teams like Spain with barca's midfield and Germany which was Bayern munch basically while these" throw everyone from around the world on a bus and just play" like Argentina came up short. . Not to mention the richest clubs can just buy the best players while national teams are stuck with inferior talent inevitably because of restrictions.

A lot of non soccer fans watch the international tourneys. I think a large portion of audience for these games just use it as way to express patriotism/national pride and could care less about soccer really, international games are just the best channel for expressing that so its soccer for those people but they could care less about everyday club soccer.

I kinda agree. I mean look at Brazil, their players are also no joke. Compared with Argentina, the are eveb much much worse. A 1-7 defeat at home and not being able to qualify to knock out. I'm not too sure with Chile though, and why has their performance in copa has so much difference than in WC qualifiers.
 

likeafire

New member
Im positive now that Ronaldo will go on and win Euro 2016. I think it's just meant to be. Practically through to the final now, Wales without Ramsay and Davies, Portugal will easily win that.

Oh well. Guess that ends the Ronaldo vs Messi debate, will be constantly reminded of Ronaldo winning with Portugal. There's no comeback when a Ronaldo fan says 'But Ronaldo has won something on the international stage'.

I'm out. It was nice defending Messi as long as it lasted.
 
I

instinct

Guest
Im positive now that Ronaldo will go on and win Euro 2016. I think it's just meant to be. Practically through to the final now, Wales without Ramsay and Davies, Portugal will easily win that.

Oh well. Guess that ends the Ronaldo vs Messi debate, will be constantly reminded of Ronaldo winning with Portugal. There's no comeback when a Ronaldo fan says 'But Ronaldo has won something on the international stage'.

I'm out. It was nice defending Messi as long as it lasted.

emin.gif
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Im positive now that Ronaldo will go on and win Euro 2016. I think it's just meant to be. Practically through to the final now, Wales without Ramsay and Davies, Portugal will easily win that.

Oh well. Guess that ends the Ronaldo vs Messi debate, will be constantly reminded of Ronaldo winning with Portugal. There's no comeback when a Ronaldo fan says 'But Ronaldo has won something on the international stage'.

I'm out. It was nice defending Messi as long as it lasted.

Hold your horses man. Portugal has not advanced to the final yet, and even if they do next week, they will have a very hard time against Germany/Italy/France (sorry Iceland, it was fun while it lasted).

Ronaldo vs. Messi debate has long been over. Most sane football fans, including many Real Madrid fans recognize that Messi is a much better and much more complete footballer than Ronaldo, who is more or less a first-class striker these days. Yes at this rate Ronaldo will win his 4th BD next January, just one short of Messi's. Sorry, no amount of BDs Ronaldo will win will change that narrative.

For the sake of the discussion, worst case scenario, if even say Portugal beats Germany/Italy/France and Ronaldo had a game of his life performance, it will sway opinions for a while for sure, but over time it won't matter. One trophy does not change the overall narrative.
 
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