10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[gasgas]

A) Weak teams
B) Real really play against Barca. They don't park the bus.

Neither did Roma

There is no shame to admit that Ronaldo is the superior CL knockout player. In the past 5 seasons Messi scored 2 goals from the quarter finals onwards while Ronaldo scored 20. It's what it is and it's not only because Madrid have a better midfield either. Madrid were heavily outplayed many times by even Wolfsburg and Schalke in recent years but Ronaldo came up with braces and hattricks when needed and we Barca fans played it down as "rubbish opponents anyway".

Tell them Ursegor

go workhorse

 

[DonAndres]

Ronaldo had no right to score that overhead. Could have missed that first shot vs Juve too, as it wasn't an easy finish. A lot of the goals Ronaldo scores, the vast majority of them in CL, aren't served on the plate. He runs his ass off in attack, pressing and running, and scores because he tries hard in every top game.

That one bicycle created this huge revisionist history about how Ronaldo scores and what he does.

Well over 90% of his goals are 1 touch finishes in the box. He runs off ball to get to them but it's a very clear comfort to have knowing that you'll get successful deliveries sent in to you countless times per game.

And if you actually watch RM's attack and Ronaldo, the formula is very clear: if the crosser is at the front corner of the box, Ronaldo runs far post for a header. If that player is being pressured, he passes it up to the overlapping player at the goal line who cuts it back to Ronaldo who drops near post/edge of the 6 yard box.

It really doesn't vary from those 2 scenarios, rarely if ever. Watch an RM game and pay close attention to this and it'll be clear.

It's not "the run creating the pass" or "6th sense off the ball movement" where he knows where to go and no one else in the world does. He is the best off ball player ever but the exaggeration on this has gotten so silly. RM's creative players know where to pass even without spotting Ronaldo's run, it's literally running plays and sets that they practice over and over again and abuse constantly in game.

And the fact that they can penetrate the defense to get into those positions with EASE and always have such easy looks is taken for granted. We haven't seen Ronaldo deal with those uphill conditions in a CL game since 2014 really. What would he be doing if his midfield literally couldn't progress the ball up the pitch and got pinned in their own half, let alone create chances for him? What exactly would he do to help in that scenario? Fuck all, but he is the footballer who faces those adversities the least of ANYONE so it goes unnoticed.

It correlates over to international play too. The dude goes missing against teams that are actually good and outplay his Portugal side (0 goals against top sides), but scores hattricks for fun against the likes of Latvia, Luxembourg, Faroe Islands, etc. when his team is the dominant side and can deliver chances.

He's a niche player, and with that comes a LOT of luxuries that aren't afforded to someone like Messi.

 

[El MeSSiaS]

I really dont believe this kids in a Barsa forum saying that Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, fucking incredible I would expect this from Facebook or Twitter but not from a forum with "Barsa fans".

 

[te amo barca]

I really dont believe this kids in a Barsa forum saying that Ronaldo is a better player than Messi, fucking incredible I would expect this from Facebook or Twitter but not from a forum with "Barsa fans".

nobody is saying Ronaldo is better. People are saying that Ronaldo has performed far better in CL knock-out rounds which is true.

 

[sickstar]

As any player would. But Messi can still score a shit load of goals with no creative midfielders.

Barcelona have a midfield of Rakitic, Busquets, Paulinho, Andre Gomes and Iniesta (34). Please tell me how Messi can score from that? None of those players can create fuck all.

Exactly, but next season we will have Coutinho, Dembele and Arthur. So, I guess we will triumph next season. until next season.
EV has to play Dembele more often.

And sign Dybala or someone as a cover for Suarez please. He's still clinical, but at the same time chokes chances. One goal is not accepted from the caliber of player of he is.

Everything else is already decent. And EV to stop instructing his players to full defend when we are in a big lead, not Barca DNA.

Forgot this:
MAtS
Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busi-Arthur-Coutinho-Dembele
Messi-Suarez/ New player

I think with this formation and right approach and strategy we will not lose to Roma like today.

 

[serghei]

That one bicycle created this huge revisionist history about how Ronaldo scores and what he does.

Well over 90% of his goals are 1 touch finishes in the box. He runs off ball to get to them but it's a very clear comfort to have knowing that you'll get successful deliveries sent in to you countless times per game.

And if you actually watch RM's attack and Ronaldo, the formula is very clear: if the crosser is at the front corner of the box, Ronaldo runs far post for a header. If that player is being pressured, he passes it up to the overlapping player at the goal line who cuts it back to Ronaldo who drops near post/edge of the 6 yard box.

It's not "the run creating the pass" or "6th sense off the ball movement" where he knows where to go and no one else in the world does. He is the best off ball player ever but the exaggeration on this has gotten so silly. RM's creative players know where to pass even without spotting Ronaldo's run, it's literally running plays and sets that they practice over and over again and abuse constantly in game.

And the fact that they can penetrate the defense to get into those positions with EASE and always have such easy looks is taken for granted. We haven't seen Ronaldo deal with those uphill conditions in a CL game since 2014 really. What would he be doing if his midfield literally couldn't progress the ball up the pitch and got pinned in their own half, let alone create chances for him? What exactly would he do to help in that scenario? Fuck all, but he is the footballer who faces those adversities the least of ANYONE so it goes unnoticed.

It correlates over to international play too. The dude goes missing against teams that are actually good and outplay his Portugal side (0 goals against top sides), but scores hattricks for fun against the likes of Latvia, Luxembourg, Faroe Islands, etc. when his team is the dominant side and can deliver chances.

He's a niche player, and with that comes a LOT of luxuries that aren't afforded to someone like Messi.

You're right in some areas, but wrong in others. For example, Messi could never do what Ronaldo does. So why should Ronaldo really get criticised for being 'a niche' player like you say, if others just can't do what he does as well. He's an expert in his field so to speak. He's mastering his role to really really astonishing levels. Messi is a playmaker. So, when the team is creating 1 decent chance in 70 mins, isn't he at fault as well? Of course he is.

Ronaldo is a striker first and foremost. His job is to score goals when provided with decent, good and great opportunities (scores a lot of goals from decent chances too). Messi's job is to create chances. And dribble players. So, when he doesn't do any of those, why are you excluding Messi from the mechanism that is shown to be lacking (nobody dribbled Roma players, nobody did any playmaking), when he, in fact, should be the one being decisive in its success? Seems to me like Messi's responsabilities in this team are vague when things aren't working well, but are enormous when they do. Isn't he supposed to play more centrally now? Then why are Roma stomping all over us there?

 

[Total-Football]

Im usually against censoring opinions.. but those trolls who use the opportunity to bring divinaldo s name here should be thread banned. I dont care if you score 1000 goals. If you dive than you are not one of the greats.. of all the goats i cant think of anyone who dives except tapinaldo.

 

[JamDav1982]

Im usually against censoring opinions.. but those trolls who use the opportunity to bring divinaldo s name here should be threzd banned. I dont care if you score 1000 goals. If you dive than you are not one of the greats.. of all the goats i cant think of anyone who dives except tapinaldo.

What a load of crap.

Only to discuss when Messi has the upper hand?

Messi v Ronaldo is one of biggest narratives in football and will be on here.

 

[Ode to Django]

Exactly, but next season we will have Coutinho, Dembele and Arthur. So, I guess we will triumph next season. until next season.
EV has to play Dembele more often.

And sign Dybala or someone as a cover for Suarez please. He's still clinical, but at the same time chokes chances. One goal is not accepted from the caliber of player of he is.

Everything else is already decent. And EV to stop instructing his players to full defend when we are in a big lead, not Barca DNA.

Forgot this:
MAtS
Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busi-Arthur-Coutinho-Dembele
Messi-Suarez/ New player

I think with this formation and right approach and strategy we will not lose to Roma like today.

sign Dybala for cover

 

[DonAndres]

You're right in some areas, but wrong in others. For example, Messi could never do what Ronaldo does. So why should Ronaldo really get criticised for being 'a niche' player like you say. He's mastering his role to really really astonishing levels. Messi is a playmaker. So, when the team is creating 1 decent chance in 70 mins, isn't he at fault as well. Of course he is.

Of course Messi couldn't do exactly what Ronaldo does, just that Ronaldo has every advantage and supporting outlet to fulfill his role to perfection. Messi on the other hand does not have the conditions that allow him to dominate in the CL the way he does, whereas RM can 100% outplay every CL opponent they face in midfield and create countless chances.

I'm not criticizing Ronaldo for being a niche player, but it has to be factored into the discussion. Ronaldo has been more successful at fulfilling his role than Messi has at fulfilling his, that much is certainly true. However the gravity and significance of what each player does is worlds apart. That's also why when Messi does have the right conditions to succeed and plays at his best, it's literally like 2-3x better than anything Ronaldo could ever hope to do.

Ronaldo is an extremely effective cog in a near perfect machine, Messi is the entire engine. Ronaldo hasn't had to face those 'uphill battle' conditions in the CL the way Messi has since the Mourinho days pretty much and he wouldn't look nearly as flattering as he does now if he did.

 

[te amo barca]

Of course Messi couldn't do exactly what Ronaldo does, just that Ronaldo has every advantage and supporting outlet to fulfill his role to perfection. Messi on the other hand does not have the conditions that allow him to dominate in the CL the way he does, whereas RM can 100% outplay every CL opponent they face in midfield and create countless chances.

I'm not criticizing Ronaldo for being a niche player, but it has to be factored into the discussion. Ronaldo has been more successful at fulfilling his role than Messi has at fulfilling his, that much is certainly true. However the gravity and significance of what each player does is worlds apart. That's also why when Messi does have the right conditions to succeed and plays at his best, it's literally like 2-3x better than anything Ronaldo could ever hope to do.

Ronaldo is an extremely effective cog in a near perfect machine, Messi is the entire engine. Ronaldo hasn't had to face those 'uphill battle' conditions in the CL the way Messi has since the Mourinho days pretty much and he wouldn't look nearly as flattering as he does now if he did.

The way you are describing it makes it seem that Messi is some luxury player akin to Ozil who needs specific conditions to flourish and cannot impose his game if such conditions are lacking.Honestly, you should just analyze Ronaldo's movement and you will see why he is the best goalscorer in the world.

Also while I agree that Messi has to drag this team on his own, it should be noted that Messi's style of play is part of the problem. By Messi not offering himself, just standing, many of our plays become static because we always search for Messi who often makes no visible effort to move into channels. Don't get me started on our players' obsession with Leo scoring. Alba, Suarez, Neymar, at least those three always saw only Messi and passed to him when there were far better options.

 

[Hamzah]

Hire de Francesco, develop Arthur, use coutinho and dembele often. Griezmann ahead of Suarez. Barca may finally have a team with proper technical quality around messi.

 

[Much2soon]

I will always side with Messi but if we’re being honest, if Messi’s having a bad game, it drags on the whole match. Today his entire game was off, shooting it straight at the keeper and passes we’re off. He’s had a few games like that this season but it’s usally masked by him hitting a great freekicks.

Roan’do, due to his strength and physique, he’s a constant threat the whole match. If he can’t score, Zidane (unlike Valverde) will substitue his donkey striker and place some speedy players around him. Valverde on the other hand will keep donkey striker on the field and brings on Gomes, now we have two donkeys.

 

[BBZ8800]

Exactly, but next season we will have Coutinho, Dembele and Arthur. So, I guess we will triumph next season. until next season.
EV has to play Dembele more often.

And sign Dybala or someone as a cover for Suarez please. He's still clinical, but at the same time chokes chances. One goal is not accepted from the caliber of player of he is.

Everything else is already decent. And EV to stop instructing his players to full defend when we are in a big lead, not Barca DNA.

Forgot this:
MAtS
Semedo-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busi-Arthur-Coutinho-Dembele
Messi-Suarez/ New player

I think with this formation and right approach and strategy we will not lose to Roma like today.

In that midfield, only 2 players can defend (and then you have 4 players in a team who don't defend too much), and we have yet to see how Arthur defends in Europe.
Also, without Rakitic and Suarez, we will have only 2 players who can jump when we defend corners against big European teams.

Not to mention that a team you have wrote is physically shorter than a current one (Rakitic, Suarez out) and we are already one of the shortest big team out there, plus without Suarez, we are losing even that tiny chance to actually score a goal after crosses.

Basically a lot of changes (in terms of player for a player) but zero changes in tactics.
This is basically what Pep is doing: zero changes in tactics, just buying new, better players and play the same shit over and over (and expecting different outcomes, which aren't happening).

No offense to anyone, I don't see a single reason why a lineup from your post would cope better in a CL 2019 than the current team.
It does have slightly more attacking power, but again, slightly more one dimensional attacking power where we play only shortpasses and through balls.

 

[George_Costanza]

1 Champion League in the last 7 years!