10 - Lionel Messi - V6

[Vilarrubi]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

Interesting that map has the touch map on there too.. if we count anything in line with the centre circle and further back as "dropping deep" Messi and Suarez had 30 touches in deep positions in that Roma game..... so can we put the "Messi/Suarez not dropping deep was the problem" to bed please lol

https://en.as.com/resultados/futbol/champions/2017_2018/directo/cuartos_a_2_238402/afondo/

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]

Interesting that map has the touch map on there too.. if we count anything in line with the centre circle as "dropping deep" Messi and Suarez had 30 touches in deep positions in that Roma game..... so can we put the "Messi/Suarez not dropping deep was the problem" to bed please lol

https://en.as.com/resultados/futbol/champions/2017_2018/directo/cuartos_a_2_238402/afondo/

When I have more time I'm going to do a more detailed post of this. With screenshots and everything, clearly exemplified. I will download the game and show what the problem with Messi and Suarez was. And how they failed to help the midfield once they saw we were getting overrun there.

 

[Vilarrubi]

When I have more time I'm going to do a more detailed post of this. With screenshots and everything, clearly exemplified.

Look forward to it... If you can convince me that they were the main problem in that game then fair play. But what I saw was COMPLETE midfield domination with 4 in midfield, Alba and Semedo both available in wide areas.

 

[te amo barca]

Yes there would be a big problem because Messi with his workrate wouldn't play as false 9, he would play like a second striker/number 10, dropping deep all the time and rarely making runs.

We looked absolutely predictable in 2013 and 2014 when Messi was playing false 9 and Messi was 4 years younger.

The main strength of Messi nowadays is his passing, he doesn't have the pace or the workrate to play as a false 9.

With the level of potential creativity we have atm (Coutinho and Dembele) Messi does not have to drop deep as much. He needs to play more as a real 9 rather than a false 9 and be involved less in the build up. Basically, should receive the ball in the 10 area and not between Busi and the center backs.

 

[Stoichkov1]

With the level of potential creativity we have atm (Coutinho and Dembele) Messi does not have to drop deep as much. He needs to play more as a real 9 rather than a false 9 and be involved less in the build up. Basically, should receive the ball in the 10 area and not between Busi and the center backs.

To play as a real 9 a player has to be tall and he needs pace.

 

[FCB1987]

With the level of potential creativity we have atm (Coutinho and Dembele) Messi does not have to drop deep as much. He needs to play more as a real 9 rather than a false 9 and be involved less in the build up. Basically, should receive the ball in the 10 area and not between Busi and the center backs.

👍

 

[te amo barca]

To play as a real 9 a player has to be tall and he needs pace.

Messi has enough pace to outrun defenders on the first 10-20 meters to make space for a shot/pass. Real 9s are not always players like Mandzukic or Crouch. Lethal forwards like Aguero, Romario, Di Natale, Tevez, Chicharito for instance are/were small. To be a striker is not about being physical and tall. Depends on the type of the forward needed anyway. Suarez is hardly a target man and does not need to be one because we don't play long balls to a target man so that he could knock them down to running players anyway.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Sell Messi? Are you fucking kidding me.

visca El Man city Guardiola brigade . The day Klopp anhilates Man shitty these people will go back to their caves once and for all . Can't wait for that

didn't say he couldn't do well, I'm talking about on bad pitches specifically like last night where he didn't play well.

He was Barca's best player along with Iniesta when we played at Espanyol last year . Pitch was a literal pool . No premier league club will dish out pitches like Barca played yesterday and against Espanyol last season . Barcelona plays in far worse pitches against bottom tier La liga clubs compared to Premier league clubs . Even Leeds united who are in second division has world class stadium facilities

That's just nonsense. We played well under Tito until he had to go off to NYC for his cancer treatment. Then the season under Tata was a shitshow. Everything worked fine under Lucho's first two seasons where we actually looked like a team that could beat anyone even though it stopped up against Atletico who also beat out other major teams.

Barca looking more fluid without Messi? Then why the fuck have we always struggled drawing or even losing the games having to sub him on when he's not available?

This is one of those instances with Sid Lowe writing about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...a-looked-beaten-with-him-they-look-unbeatable

Sure as hell looked fluid and well without him right?

And this is MARCA writing about Barca's struggles without Messi in other games as well:

http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2018/04/02/5ac11ca2e2704e4c728b45ea.html

So where is the fluidity and game plan with players playing better that you're talking about?

Only match that we lost last season in league was without him . Sure we are much fluid without him . Let's judge based on few pointless pre season friendlys

Nah, man. We were grinding out wins in 14/15 before Anoeta and had a brilliant year of 2015, two months of which Messi missed at the start of 15/16 season when Neymar & Suarez were tearing teams apart. Our most memorable victory against Madrid since 5-0 was won without Messi. Then Messi came back and decided he should play in the center starting from 2016, and the fuckery started. Enormous holes on the right left to be covered by Rakitic, terrible perfomances against Arsenal and a deserved elimination from Atletico. We almost bottled the league as well until we decided to turn up in an easy run of games at the end of the season. Then 16/17 began with the same problems. Like I said, it's really been just one really good year when we looked unbeatable. Messi's skill has always been enough to trash La Liga teams, it is the CL where he is not as effective any more. Though TBH he did dismantle Chelsea on his own last season, then the Roma meltdown happened.

We played 8 matches without him while he was injured . We didn't teared teams apart like the way you are claiming . struggled as hell against Getafe away and grinded out a win , lost sevilla away( Where Messi saved our ass in past two seasons) , we almost lost to Leverkusen at home . It was only after 80th minute that Roberto and suarez managed to find a goal against a team that Messi scored in his comeback match. We played against a terrible Real Madrid side who had no clue or plan on how to tackle a quality opponent . Teams that we teared apart where Bate Borisov and Villareal at home . kindly stop fooling people with false narratives .

FC Barcelona have won CL titles and La liga's before Messi and will do so after him too. We need to build for the future.

Messi has won us 3 Cl's and 6 league titles with him as the main man . Even in his 30's Barca was unbeaten in La liga with him on the pitch . Yeah sell him and build for the future and watch teams like Levante play without the fear of marking Messi

 

[KingMessi]

To play as a real 9 a player has to be tall and he needs pace.

False.

 

[Joan]

edit: [tw]1033685703924895744[/tw]

 

[KingMessi]

Our social media team is a riot.

 

[Stoichkov1]

False.

So he needs to be short and slow?

 

[te amo barca]

Replace Suarez* with a new striker and play Messi RW or in the centre, it doesn't really matter.

The point is that Messi is old and he needs a striker in front of him who makes runs behind the defenders.

I could apply the same logic that Messi is old and too slow to play on the wing. Anyways, he won't play at RW, gravitates towards the center too often leaving us with a huge hole on the right wing. Wingers are for stretching the pitch, ask Pep. Messi does not provide width at RW at all. We could get away with this if we had prime Alves to go up and down on the right flank on his own, but we have Roberto and Semedo who are clearly worse.

So he needs to be short and slow?

The CF position is not reserved for tall and fast strikers only. You are contradicting yourself left and right. What about countless tall forwards who are slow as fuck, such as Mandzukic, Crouch, Giroud, De Jong, Llorente, Benteke and so on. There are tons of them.

 

[KingMessi]

So he needs to be short and slow?

Ah the old binary logic.

A 9 doesn't "NEED" to be tall or fast, so long as he has other aspects to his game that make up for it.

 

[soul24rage]

I hope that we can try Messi false 9 & dembele and malcom on the wings vs Huesca next sunday. We need to try different tactics and formations and we need to see how it works with Dembele and Malcom even against a promoted side like Huesca. Plus, Suarez is going to play the 2 international friendlies and we wouldn't want him to get burned out, so I would rest him vs Huesca.