10 - Lionel Messi - V6

Judoman

Senior Member
Maybe Messi's poor mental strength and sulking away from Camp Nou is also one of the reasons why we have won only 1 CL in the last 7 years.
Even if use alibies like: Valverde, Rakitic, bad luck, poor teammates: isn't it weird that Messi has scored only 4 goals in the last 28 KO matches with Barcelona in Argentina since 2014 season?

Our resident pseudo psychologist BBZ has done it again. He found the reason for our lack of CL trophies in the resent years and that is......drum roles...........Messi!! Who would have though...

All the rest of (logical and obvious) issues are just "alibis". Nothing to be concern about. Good job buddy!

Btw, maybe this is why we are buying Neymar and Griezmann.
Maybe Messi really needs more guys around him in those big AWAY Champions league KO matches...

Well, no shit Sherlock. I mean, it kind of makes sense, don t you think? Did you just figure this out now?
 

Altomonte

New member
somebody should create a Youtube summary of Messi's actions in the semis against Liverpool.
It would show that he was amazing at home and still excellent at Anfield. Alba, Coutinho and Suarez wasted 1v1 chances Messi had created. Messi himself further missed a couple of long distance shots and a 1v1 at a difficult angle, at Anfield.
In addition to overwhelming intensity, the story of the Liverpool return match was Alisson's performance. He more than anybody spoiled it for Messi.

BTW, a similar story can be told about the WC final 2014 against Germany. Messi was quite exhausted (stamina is not his top quality) but still delivered key passes that should have led to at least one goal. Higuain missed, Palacio missed, and Messi himself missed a 1v1 against another top GK - Manuel Neuer. His shot went wide.

Messi's recent Nemesis was not DVD, it has been Alisson Becker - stopping his shots and assists against Roma, Liverpool, and Brazil. As Brazil GK, Alisson further received help twice from the woodwork.
 

snowy

Well-known member
I haven't thought about the EXACT thing which you mentioned here, about AWAY matches and Messi's comfort zone.
I agree with you that Messi goes MIA and sulks too often in a CL and with Argentina.
..
** Btw, maybe this is why we are buying Neymar and Griezmann.
...

BBZ, dunno if you have access to the data but adding stats for Assists, duels won, key passes per 90 min and chances created would be very informative! Just guessing here but pretty sure they'll show he doesn't go Chuck Norris MIA

** Adding Ney and Griez to the mix, specially if playing deJ + arthur + Demb and we're back in bizz :cool:

Damn! that's exactly how I feel when I think about Anfield! Can't wait to take it back to them :rambo: :2guns:
 
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MagIX

Senior Member
Our resident pseudo psychologist BBZ has done it again. He found the reason for our lack of CL trophies in the resent years and that is......drum roles...........Messi!! Who would have though...

All the rest of (logical and obvious) issues are just "alibis". Nothing to be concern about. Good job buddy!



Well, no shit Sherlock. I mean, it kind of makes sense, don t you think? Did you just figure this out now?

I totally agree.

The PROBLEM of Barca and Argentina is Messi ! Finally we got the solution ! for more than 10 years he is THE problem and we have never noticed, really tragic!

I can't believe what I am reading.... we do not win the CL because of Messi. Messi has always to make the difference in every match, otherwise he's an average player. We did not win 10 CL in a row because Messi has not delivered ! what a horrible player !
How is it possible that this player allows himself not to be decisive in every game, unlike other champions of the past and present ?

He needs a team around him ??? soccer is a team sport ?really ???that genius intuition ! and I thought soccer was an individual sport!

Messi is a human, he makes errors, he had bad performances and so on.
It seems that only for Messi soccer is considered an individual sport, only Messi must be decisive in every single match, non-human criteria apply only to him.
 

eaman

Active member
Unfortunately you are not a mod.

Yes he did not show up IN liverpool (e.g. anfield road).
He always shows up at camp nou, because it is his comfort zone but please look at the following games:

Liverpool away
Roma Away
Atletico away x2
Juventus away
WC final 2014
All copa finals

his body language in these games was comparable to zombie (I can understand in some cases, but htf he was not playing his heart out in WC final 2014????, he had to know that it was his one and only chance for international glory)

You're wrong saying he didn't show up for the world cup final or the copa final in 2016. You can always tell when he's up for it and he was in those certainly on the ball anyway. Look at the highlights of both and he created plenty of danger. As for the anfield thing. Creating 3 clear chances is probably more than any away player has done at that ground recently
 

MagIX

Senior Member
Yes that handful of games is all his fault. Not like the rest of the team was useless, but he must carry us in every game apparently

Exactly, he is doomed to be decisive in every single match. If not.....god help him !!
And only for him applies the rule that soccer is an individual sport not a team sport.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
Our resident pseudo psychologist BBZ has done it again. He found the reason for our lack of CL trophies in the resent years and that is......drum roles...........Messi!! Who would have though...

All the rest of (logical and obvious) issues are just "alibis". Nothing to be concern about. Good job buddy!



Well, no shit Sherlock. I mean, it kind of makes sense, don t you think? Did you just figure this out now?

I totally agree.

The PROBLEM of Barca and Argentina is Messi ! Finally we got the solution ! for more than 10 years he is THE problem and we have never noticed, really tragic!

I can't believe what I am reading.... we do not win the CL because of Messi. Messi has always to make the difference in every match, otherwise he's an average player. We did not win 10 CL in a row because Messi has not delivered ! what a horrible player !
How is it possible that this player allows himself not to be decisive in every game, unlike other champions of the past and present ?

He needs a team around him ??? soccer is a team sport ?really ???that genius intuition ! and I thought soccer was an individual sport!

Messi is a human, he makes errors, he had bad performances and so on.
It seems that only for Messi soccer is considered an individual sport, only Messi must be decisive in every single match, non-human criteria apply only to him.

It was a post and stats about his comfort zone and huge differences between home and away CL matches from Messi.
I posted his away matches since 2008, now I will post his all HOME KO matches since 2008:

2009:
Lyon 5:2, Messi 1
Bayern 4:0, Messi 2
Chelsea 0:0

2010:
Stuttgart 4:0, Messi 2
Arsenal 4:1, Messi 4
Inter 1:0, --

2011:
Arsenal 3:1, Messi, Messi (pen)
Shakthtar 5:1, -
Real 1:1, -

2012:
Leverkusen 7:1, Messi 5
Milan 3:1, Messi (pen) x2
Chelsea 2:2

2013:
Milan 4:0, Messi x2
Psg 1:1, --

2014:
City 2:1, Messi
AM 1:1, --

2015:
City 1:0
Psg 2:0
Bayern 3:0, Messi 2

2016:
Arsenal 3:1, Messi
AM 2:1

2017:
Psg 6:1, Messi (pen)
Juve 0:0

2018:
Chelsea 3:0, Messi 2
Roma 4:1

2019:
Lyon 5:1, Messi, Messi (pen)
Man Utd 3:0, Messi 2
Liverpool 3:0, Messi 2

** Messi since 2008/09 in a CL KO matches:
1. Home=28 matches, scored on 15/28 nights (without penaldos), scored 28 goals on 28 matches plus 5 penaldos
2. Away=32 matches, scored on 8/32 nights, scored 9 goals on 32 matches (plus 2 penaldos)

So, my point was that a user Kollegah made a good point.
And that Messi is an alien in his comfort zone matches (La Liga, group stage matches, HOME CL knockout matches), while he is significantly weaker and more prone to going MIA in away KO matches.

So, once again, in short:
Messi HOME in a CL KO matches=28 matches, 33 goals in total (28+5 penaldos)
Messi AWAY in a CL KO matches=32 matches, 11 goals in total (9+2 penaldos)

Home=1,18 goals per match scored
Away=0,34 goals per match scored

In terms of goals, his performances since 2008 in a CL are 350% better at home CL matches.

Have I insulted anyone or what?
Messi is a Goat, but he has his own shortcomings, like a weaker mental strength and a far, far weaker performances in an away KO matches.
 

pregra

Active member
For some (dare I say stupid?) people Messi "didn't show up unless he scores". Retared logic. Put 2 balls on plate vs Juve that teammates missed, put 3 balls on a plate that teammates missed. What are people expeting? Getafe '07 goals every time he touches the ball??
 

Judoman

Senior Member
Have I insulted anyone or what?
Messi is a Goat, but he has his own shortcomings, like a weaker mental strength and a far, far weaker performances in an away KO matches.


Not at all, but you should re-read your todays revelation multiple times, until it really sinks in hard:

Btw, maybe this is why we are buying Neymar and Griezmann.
Maybe Messi really needs more guys around him in those big AWAY Champions league KO matches..

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel over and over man. Nobody is perfect, neither is Messi, but he is the least of our problems. The question is, why are you so committed to repeat what his shortcomings are, while connecting those
to our lack of CL trophies in recent years and at the same time ignoring the true reasons. The ones you call "alibis".

It just makes you look like you are starving for attention.
 

Don Andrésº8

New member
Messi should stick to the false nine role and play more close to the box, is there where he shines. He wants to be a Xavi in this part of his carreer but he cannot be a Xavi, he doesnt has the brain of Xavi to play in that role
 

Mitchell1978

Senior Member
For some (dare I say stupid?) people Messi "didn't show up unless he scores". Retared logic. Put 2 balls on plate vs Juve that teammates missed, put 3 balls on a plate that teammates missed. What are people expeting? Getafe '07 goals every time he touches the ball??

I guess some people do.

Messi was by far the best player in the last CL campaign, you can maybe criticise his performance in 2018 against Roma and against PSG in 2017 but people who criticise his recent CL campaign or say that he's the reason barça didn't win are only showing they have a clear agenda against him or are just simply of malicious intent.
 

eaman

Active member
It was a post and stats about his comfort zone and huge differences between home and away CL matches from Messi.
I posted his away matches since 2008, now I will post his all HOME KO matches since 2008:

2009:
Lyon 5:2, Messi 1
Bayern 4:0, Messi 2
Chelsea 0:0

2010:
Stuttgart 4:0, Messi 2
Arsenal 4:1, Messi 4
Inter 1:0, --

2011:
Arsenal 3:1, Messi, Messi (pen)
Shakthtar 5:1, -
Real 1:1, -

2012:
Leverkusen 7:1, Messi 5
Milan 3:1, Messi (pen) x2
Chelsea 2:2

2013:
Milan 4:0, Messi x2
Psg 1:1, --

2014:
City 2:1, Messi
AM 1:1, --

2015:
City 1:0
Psg 2:0
Bayern 3:0, Messi 2

2016:
Arsenal 3:1, Messi
AM 2:1

2017:
Psg 6:1, Messi (pen)
Juve 0:0

2018:
Chelsea 3:0, Messi 2
Roma 4:1

2019:
Lyon 5:1, Messi, Messi (pen)
Man Utd 3:0, Messi 2
Liverpool 3:0, Messi 2

** Messi since 2008/09 in a CL KO matches:
1. Home=28 matches, scored on 15/28 nights (without penaldos), scored 28 goals on 28 matches plus 5 penaldos
2. Away=32 matches, scored on 8/32 nights, scored 9 goals on 32 matches (plus 2 penaldos)

So, my point was that a user Kollegah made a good point.
And that Messi is an alien in his comfort zone matches (La Liga, group stage matches, HOME CL knockout matches), while he is significantly weaker and more prone to going MIA in away KO matches.

So, once again, in short:
Messi HOME in a CL KO matches=28 matches, 33 goals in total (28+5 penaldos)
Messi AWAY in a CL KO matches=32 matches, 11 goals in total (9+2 penaldos)

Home=1,18 goals per match scored
Away=0,34 goals per match scored

In terms of goals, his performances since 2008 in a CL are 350% better at home CL matches.

Have I insulted anyone or what?
Messi is a Goat, but he has his own shortcomings, like a weaker mental strength and a far, far weaker performances in an away KO matches.

I'm fairly sure every player scores most of their goals at home. Barcelona play a different game away from home especially in the champions league. Even under pep this was the case. Very few goals from any players really
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
BBZ is displaying such a level of masochism and self-loathing by spewing this nonsense here while being mum on Rakitic and Valgreen threads, that it makes me convinced he's into being pegged.

:lol::lol:
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel over and over man. Nobody is perfect, neither is Messi, but he is the least of our problems. The question is, why are you so committed to repeat what his shortcomings are, while connecting those
to our lack of CL trophies in recent years and at the same time ignoring the true reasons. The ones you call "alibis".

It just makes you look like you are starving for attention.

Maybe because there isn't ONLY ONE reason for our failures.
The simplest thing is to say:
= we lost because of EV and Rakitic

Ok, fine.
But Dembele's 2 misses at 3:0 also didn't help.
Busi being finished, slow and complacent also isn't helping.
Suarez being horrible in CL matches also didn't help.
Not having a RB also didn't help.
Messi being a weaker version of himself for years in away matches also didn't help.
Alba playing like an idiot in a key match, also didn't help etc.

Why do we need to have only 1 or 2 reasons/scapegoats?
Ok, some players/coaches are more guilty.
But still, a lot of players and a lot of factors are guilty also.

Have I said in any part of my posts that Messi isn't a Goat or our best player, or a best player in any CL campaign?
I have just said that even Messi is guilty for some things in key away CL matches.
Someone will reply: lol, if we didn't have Messi, we wouldn't win anything.
True, but the same as how Messipendencia is bringining trophies against Getafe, then in a CL, Messipendencia is a reason why we are easily neutralized by bigger teams.
A reason for wins in one circumstance is a reason for your failure on a higher level...

At Camp Nou matches in a CL, we are attacking all the time and we have 100 000 supporters and refs on our side.
Messi doesn't have to drop as deep to get the ball and we usually have a lot of shots.

On away matches=we don't have as much possession.
Our opponents are usually hostile, dirty, aggressive and motivated. Supporters (and often refs) are on their side (of a dirtier football).
In those situations, we don't have as much possession and as much shots.
Messi usually have to drop deeper than at Camp Nou matches since we have less possession.
That means that he is neutralized easier since he drops deep and then he is man marked by 2-3 players.

When he is man marked from the game, we can't create too much.
Then we concede a goal, and then again we can't create too much.
Then Messi goes into a sulking mode.
And then, since we don't know how to play without Messi (and especially without IN FORM Messi), we just play even worse and worse, we are passing every ball to him.
And yet he is losing confidence, he is moving even less and less off the ball.
And our team is ruining more and more actions and Messi's and our overall (already fragile confidence) drops even more.

So, add:
1. Messipendencia
2. more physical and dirty football from home team (opponents)
3. 100 000 local fans
4. less possession
5. our team with already weak mental strength for years
6. frustrated Messi dropping deeper and deeper
7. Messi who drops deep being man marked by 2-3 players
8. conceding easy goals and not being able to create too much after that
= and voila, you get a team which is losing 0:3 and 0:4 on every away game, Messi who can't do anything, Messi who sulks and a whole team can't create anything.

Now, you can blame only EV and Raki for everything.
But similar problems and patterns in our team existed way before EV and Raki in our team.

So, my point is:
1. a mental strength of our team is also a huge problem
2. and Messi's mental strength is also a problem and he is quite fragile lately when things start to go bad in key away KO matches
In terms of mental strength, he is just a human.
 
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eaman

Active member
Do you not think it's the team as a whole that are underperforming in big away champions league games. Messi might not get as many chances because the team are not as creative. And because he is not getting the chances he drops deep and creates them and the underperforming team are not taking them just like in Turin and anfield.
 

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