11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[messi2140]

As I and many members said , it has nothing to do with the trick itself but more with who's doing it. Remember the friendly game Barca vs Psg when Messi was toying with Christophe Jallet ? Or Ronaldinho looping the ball over the same player 3 times (was also against Bilbao). No one was talking about provoking or disrespecting a player. I can guarentee if Messi were to do that Rainbow flick (Would be funny if Messi were to do something like that) , the bilbao players wouldnt react like that. It all has to do with 23 year old brazillian who came from Santos 2 years ago and barerly won anything of significance. That's what riles up the players not the rainbow flick itself.

 

[JamDav1982]

Most of the attempts are from Brasilian league.

Their culture is different.
In Brasil, that is normal (even though, a lot of opponents fouled him even in this video after this trick).
In Europe, this is considered as somewhat rude and disrespectful.

Are those tricks rude and direspectful when Ronaldinho does them?

 

[DonAK]

I remember Messi once kicking the ball with power towards the Madrid fans. I guess he deserves to be hated and kicked apart by the RM players too.

Why do we complain about it then guys? The hate is deserved and justified.

 

[JamDav1982]

If football is a game of complete 'respect' then dont boo the Spanish national anthem, dont boo and whistle the touch of every Barca player in the game, dont try to injure Barca players with knee high challenges like the one on Suarez.

Such double standards if any of Bilbao players fans feel 'disrespected' by a trick on the pitch ffs.

 

[Stric]

What? You said his attitude was the problem not his dribbling. What other element showed his attitude in that play or in that game? He dribbled a man, was fouled, and Athletic's players went balistic. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

Keep it to this game please. Are you telling me we should fault him for having a bad attitude even when it's not the case? That's stupid. When he does a stupid thing, I criticize him the same way I do with everyone, when he doesn't, he must be defended. In this case he didn't do anything wrong.

A hothead? The opposition players were shouting in his face while he was on the floor and he didn't react.

Both of you are completely ignoring what this discussion started with, and that was comparing Neymar's personality with that of Ronaldinho and guys like that, which is the reason why he gets this treatment. The entire thing was based on what they are like in general, and not in one game or one dribble. But obviously you won't say anything about that because it won't fit your theory.

But if you insist on keeping it to this game, they overreacted because Neymar milked the contact and fell down like a little bitch. For the billionth time. Yes, the defender pushed his chest, but nowhere near strongly enough for Neymar to fall like that. If you watch the slow-motion replay, you can actually see that he gets pushed, then waits, then jumps back on his own, way disproportionately to how strong the push was. And I don't even really blame him for doing it, he probably wouldn't have gotten a foul called if he had stayed on his feet. But if you do it, and if you do it as often as he does, you're going to get in trouble with the opponent, and you will be labeled a diver, a drama queen, or whatever else. Once you're labeled, it's done. And if you do get labeled, you're going to get shit for things that other players don't. That's how it works, and he has no one else to blame but himself.

But suit yourself, I, for one, won't pretend that everything a player does and any way he behaves is OK just because he's doing it in a FCB shirt.

 

[JamDav1982]

Both of you are completely ignoring what this discussion started with, and that was comparing Neymar's personality with that of Ronaldinho and guys like that, which is the reason why he gets this treatment. The entire thing was based on what they are like in general, and not in one game or one dribble. But obviously you won't say anything about that because it won't fit your theory.

But if you insist on keeping it to this game, they overreacted because Neymar milked the contact and fell down like a little bitch. For the billionth time. Yes, the defender pushed his chest, but nowhere near strongly enough for Neymar to fall like that. If you watch the slow-motion replay, you can actually see that he gets pushed, then waits, then jumps back on his own, way disproportionately to how strong the push was. And I don't even really blame him for doing it, he probably wouldn't have gotten a foul called if he had stayed on his feet. But if you do it, and if you do it as often as he does, you're going to get in trouble with the opponent, and you will be labeled a diver, a drama queen, or whatever else. Once you're labeled, it's done. And if you do get labeled, you're going to get shit for things that other players don't. That's how it works, and he has no one else to blame but himself.

But suit yourself, I, for one, won't pretend that everything a player does and any way he behaves is OK just because he's doing it in a FCB shirt.

Dont complain when Real Madrid players/fans treat Messi like shit then as he has provoked them a lot in past.

 

[Galning]

Barça forum, the place where fans can go bonkers because one of their players has superior technical skills than their cup final rivals. Amazing place.

If you, as a Barcelona and football fan in general, can't enjoy what Neymar did yesterday and just wanna nag about how disrespectful it was then I recommend you all start watching golf.

 

[Stric]

Barça forum, the place where fans can go bonkers because one of their players has superior technical skills than their cup final rivals. Amazing place.

If you, as a Barcelona and football fan in general, can't enjoy what Neymar did yesterday and just wanna nag about how disrespectful it was then I recommend you all start watching golf.

Again, people seem to want to reply with what they already made their mind up on, without actually reading what they're replying to, so there's no point in discussing. I said at least a dozen times since it happened that I personally don't find it disrespectful and think it's stupid that it's frowned upon.

 

[BBZ8800]

I remember Messi once kicking the ball with power towards the Madrid fans. I guess he deserves to be hated and kicked apart by the RM players too.

Why do we complain about it then guys? The hate is deserved and justified.

You are going to extremes now, Don.

The same as when a GK makes a rookie mistake, and then people reply: but all GKs sometimes do rookie mistakes.
Ok, but some Gks do 2-3 rookie mistakes per Season, some do 10 mistakes.
So, yes, everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
But some guys do it more often.

Messi is not an angel, but he does way less stupid things than Ney.
Again, how many scandals do you remember from Xavi or Puyol over their whole career, regarding opponents, coaches, teammates, media etc?
And then, how many mistakes CR7, Ney and some other guys made?
That is the point.

Ney is an awesome player, but he is by far the most controversial Barca's player, and it is very safe to say that he will be the most hated Barca's player in the next few years. By far.
Again, NOT only because he is an awesome player.

So
1. yes, most of the players do stupid things from time to time
2. also, it is a nice virtue to have some level of bravery and balls, and when you are not so easy to push and when you don't listen to others (Neymar, or when Messi provokes Madrid's fans, or even Lucho's bravery and somewhat cocky gestures and celebrations in some moments when he was a player)

If we would make some levels of being a dick and somewhat brave and cocky, it would be something like:
1. players who are never arrogant (like Xavi, Modric, Rakitic, for example)
2. players who are somewhat arrogant, but to an acceptable levels. Who sometimes do some stupid things, but who more or less don't go too far and mostly aren't hated among neutrals for their behavior, like Messi, Pique, Masch
3. and then, there are guys who are going too far either with cheating, diving, fighting with everyone, provoking etc like Busi, Alves in the past, Neymar, Cr7, Muller, Robben, Sergio Ramos, Pepe

So, this has NOTHING to do with Neymar's skills.
He is an AWESOME player.

 

[Ekul]

Both of you are completely ignoring what this discussion started with, and that was comparing Neymar's personality with that of Ronaldinho and guys like that, which is the reason why he gets this treatment. The entire thing was based on what they are like in general, and not in one game or one dribble. But obviously you won't say anything about that because it won't fit your theory.

But if you insist on keeping it to this game, they overreacted because Neymar milked the contact and fell down like a little bitch. For the billionth time. Yes, the defender pushed his chest, but nowhere near strongly enough for Neymar to fall like that. If you watch the slow-motion replay, you can actually see that he gets pushed, then waits, then jumps back on his own, way disproportionately to how strong the push was. And I don't even really blame him for doing it, he probably wouldn't have gotten a foul called if he had stayed on his feet. But if you do it, and if you do it as often as he does, you're going to get in trouble with the opponent, and you will be labeled a diver, a drama queen, or whatever else. Once you're labeled, it's done. And if you do get labeled, you're going to get shit for things that other players don't. That's how it works, and he has no one else to blame but himself.

But suit yourself, I, for one, won't pretend that everything a player does and any way he behaves is OK just because he's doing it in a FCB shirt.

You criticised him for exaggerating contact to win free kicks, and then you said that you don't blame him. You then said he has nobody but himself to blame. Hmmmm. So do you blame him or don't you blame him?

 

[JamDav1982]

You are going to extremes now, Don.

The same as when a GK makes a rookie mistake, and then people reply: but all GKs sometimes do rookie mistakes.
Ok, but some Gks do 2-3 rookie mistakes per Season, some do 10 mistakes.
So, yes, everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
But some guys do it more often.

Messi is not an angel, but he does way less stupid things than Ney.
Again, how many scandals do you remember from Xavi or Puyol over their whole career, regarding opponents, coaches, teammates, media etc?
And then, how many mistakes CR7, Ney and some other guys made?
That is the point.

Ney is an awesome player, but he is by far the most controversial Barca's player, and it is very safe to say that he will be the most hated Barca's player in the next few years. By far.
Again, NOT only because he is an awesome player.

So
1. yes, most of the players do stupid things from time to time
2. also, it is nice virtue to have some level of bravery and balls, and when you are not so easy to push and when you don't listen to others (Neymar, or when Messi provokes Madrid's fans, or even Lucho's bravery and somewhat cocky gestures and celebrations in some moments)

If we would make some levels of being a dick and somewhat brave and cocky, it would be something like:
1. players who are never arrogant (like Xavi, Modric, Rakitic, for example)
2. players who are somewhat arrogant, but to an acceptable levels. Who sometimes do some stupid things, but who more or less don't go to far and mostly aren't hated among neutrals for their behavior, like Messi, Pique, Masch

So, this has NOTHING to do with Neymar's skills.
He is an AWESOME player.

But we should be less biased and accept that Neymar has by far the most punchable face (because of his attitude) among neutral/opponent's fans and players, from all of our players.


3. and then, there are guys who are going to far either with cheating, diving, fighting with everyone, provoking etc like Busi, Alves in the past, Neymar, Cr7, Muller, Robben, Sergio Ramos, Pepe

Messi has probably trolled Real Madrid more than any other Barca player and I for one fucking love seeing him do it and wont try to justify the shit their fans/players give him.

 

[Stric]

You criticised him for exaggerating contact to win free kicks, and then you said that you don't blame him. You then said he has nobody but himself to blame. Hmmmm. So do you blame him or don't you blame him?

Do any of you know how to read with comprehension? Seriously, I'm tired of discussing things with people who don't want to read, but want to reply.

 

[KingMessi]

Guys, can we just stop this discussion? We're just going in circles anyway. Neymar is not going to stop his mad skillz. Lucho's quotes were misconstrued by the press. Bilbao's players reacted like most frustrated human beings would. And now we're just arguing for no reason. We won the double and are on for the treble in a week. It's time for celebrations, not time to debate the "ethics" of skills and finesse on the pitch.

And on the topic of Lucho's statement to the press: He has previously defended Neymar for playing like this by saying you can't take the Joga Bonito out of a Brazilian.

 

[jairzinho]

Luis Enrique is a fool for sayin what he said in the press. He should have communicated his views privately to Neymar. Just shows he still has a lot to learn as far being a manager is concerned. You don't chastice your players in the press, that just creates animosity and discord. As far as I'm concerned this whole issue is trivial.

 

[Gasgas]

I don't see what "he will be the best player in the world" point has with someone's attitude.
For example, Suarez is an awesome player, but his biting of opponents is idiotic.

Those are two separate things.
Should we excuse him because he is an awesome player?

I am not sure how much Neymar changed in attitude since arriving to Barca.
He improved as a player, but he is still fighting with opponents and provoking them (not ONLY with dribbles) quiet often.



Sorry, mate, I quoted your post because I needed someone's post to write something.
I wouldn't punch Ney about yesterday's dribble.
About that dribble, I can understand why opponents are angry, again, because of "accumulated" sins from Ney over the last couple of Months.

I wouldn't punch him because of that.

I would punch him because of that kiss to Uruguayan player.
That is just completely idiotic and deserves a few slaps in the face.

One more time, try to imagine sir Puyol doing something like that.
Well, you can't, because he is a sir Puyol. If you get my point.

This is why players rarely jumped on Puyol...
And they always jump on Ney.
It is not that simple. Every story has two sides.
We need to look at the whole context of Ney vs all opponents.

Equating. Ranbow flick with a bite