11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[KingMessi]

Except Lucho said that "Neymar didn't do it to offend the Athletic players and that it's difficult to explain."

 

[Stric]

Guys, can we just stop this discussion? We're just going in circles anyway. Neymar is not going to stop his mad skillz. Lucho's quotes were misconstrued by the press. Bilbao's players reacted like most frustrated human beings would. And now we're just arguing for no reason. We won the double and are on for the treble in a week. It's time for celebrations, not time to debate the "ethics" of skills and finesse on the pitch.

And on the topic of Lucho's statement to the press: He has previously defended Neymar for playing like this by saying you can't take the Joga Bonito out of a Brazilian.

That's exactly the problem. Most people aren't even debating the ethics of skills and tricks. We're debating the reason why he gets shit for doing it even though it's not unethical, and some people obviously have a problem realizing that Neymar is not a very popular guy among his opposition and why this is so.

 

[serghei]

Yes, Neymar is sometimes doing stuff I don't like, and yes, I'm sure other players don't think highly of him because of this, but this discussion is about him being right IN THIS CASE. Just because he sometimes (some would say often) dives and exaggerates contacts, doesn't mean he should be blamed when he does not do those things. Last night he did nothing wrong IMO, and I leave it at that.

 

[KingMessi]

That's exactly the problem. Most people aren't even debating the ethics of skills and tricks. We're debating the reason why he gets shit for doing it even though it's not unethical, and some people obviously have a problem realizing that Neymar is not a very popular guy among his opposition and why this is so.

It's the way Neymar likes to play. He gets into the heads of the opposition and turns their brains inside out, breaking them down mentally.

And it's highly effective.

 

[Gasgas]

This was also very disrespectful on a well beaten opponent

 

[JamDav1982]

That's exactly the problem. Most people aren't even debating the ethics of skills and tricks. We're debating the reason why he gets shit for doing it even though it's not unethical, and some people obviously have a problem realizing that Neymar is not a very popular guy among his opposition and why this is so.

I dont think that is the issue.

Most if us know Neymar the type of player that will wind up opposition and see no issue with it but arguing with opponents and then doing that kind of trick does not add up to any great 'disrespect' or bad attitude.

Neymars behaviour towards his team mates is brilliant and that is what matters more when discussing the respect and attitude he has.

 

[JamDav1982]

Also Ronaldinho was no angel at Barca he got into a lot of confrontations and had a short fuse at times.

So lets not try to change history that he never got involved in this kind of thing or got targeted by opponents.

 

[ceefoo]

Why is it disrespectful for Bilbao and not for all these teams :
]

Just an observation of the Rainbow-flick on James in the vid; does anyone here honestly think that James felt insulted or disrespected that Neymar attempted this skill move on him?
I don't. That's because James is a player with incredible skill himself and probably appreciates the technical difficulty of the execution. Most of the other players on the receiving end of Neymar's trickery don't have an ounce of his ability and when he gets the better of them, they take offence because it highlights their own ineptitude.

I am not saying that Neymar is never provocative. Him showcasing his skills is a means of retaliation, when his opponents have spent the whole game kicking lumps out of him. He's not the type of character to lay-a-nut on someone like Zizou. Plus don't forget that he is Brazilian, and it's part of the culture to express your ability and play to the fans. You can take the boy out of Brazil, but can't take Brazil out of the boy.

I applaud you Neymar!

 

[BBZ8800]

Yes, Neymar is sometimes doing stuff I don't like, and yes, I'm sure other players don't think highly of him because of this, but this discussion is about him being right IN THIS CASE. Just because he sometimes (some would say often) dives and exaggerates contacts, doesn't mean he should be blamed when he does not do those things. Last night he did nothing wrong IMO, and I leave it at that.

You are right.

I don't have anything against his move from yesterday.
even though, I can understand where are the guys, who dislike that move, coming from.

But Ney earned his reputation now among referees, opponents and neutral fans as a guy who often dives, provokes, fights, spits on opponents etc.

He will now have to live with that burden on his shoulders.

Let's be honest, Messi is Messi.
Some fouls on him are not fouls, but because he is Messi, he gets some fouls sometimes, which other players wouldn't get, isn't it?
On the other hand, once when you are known as a diver in the penalty box, referees won't give you penalties even when you are really fouled.
You have to live with that burden.

With Ney, the same story.
He earned his reputation among fans and players with some stupid things, and now a lot of players/neutral fans hate him, and even when he does nothing wrong or makes a tiny mistake, everyone will jump and sometimes kick him.

That is the point.
I don't see a point about arguing yesterday's "incident".
It was just a piece of the puzzle.

Was he right or was he wrong, it doesn't matter.
He will be kicked all the time from now on, from everyone.
And his every wrong step will be criticized by fans and media.

He lost his credit among neutrals and that's it.
He will need to invest a double or triple energy to get love from neutrals/opponents again.

And his attitude: I won't change anything or who I am=won't help him too much.
He seems to enjoy provoking opponents, even though he knows what will happen and that's it.
But then he has to be prepared for consequences.

Also, our fans should also be prepared for consequences and that he will be kicked more and more by the opponents, and that neutrals will hate him more and more.
This also means that eventually referees will stop giving him fouls, he will get more yellow cards for simulating, he won't get some deserved penalties etc.

But imo, it is silly to pretend that he didn't do anything (not yesterday, but in general), and we (Barca fans) are "wondering" why the opponents kick him and fight with him all the time, lol.

 

[Stric]

Yes, Neymar is sometimes doing stuff I don't like, and yes, I'm sure other players don't think highly of him because of this, but this discussion is about him being right IN THIS CASE. Just because he sometimes (some would say often) dives and exaggerates contacts, doesn't mean he should be blamed when he does not do those things. Last night he did nothing wrong IMO, and I leave it at that.

You can't expect players to forget everything they knew about Neymar and just re-create their perception of him based on the current game alone.

It's the way Neymar likes to play. He gets into the heads of the opposition and turns their brains inside out, breaking them down mentally.

And it's highly effective.

Fine, but we should all be aware that that kind of tactics leads to the player being hated, and therefore we shouldn't be surprised when Neymar gets in trouble even when he doesn't stir up shit on his own.

I dont think that is the issue.

Most if us know Neymar the type of player that will wind up opposition and see no issue with it but arguing with opponents and then doing that kind of trick does not add up to any great 'disrespect' or bad attitude.

Neymars behaviour towards his team mates is brilliant and that is what matters more when discussing the respect and attitude he has.

I agree that the trick doesn't add to the attitude. That's not what I'm saying here. But the previous attitude that he's known for will determine the reaction to everything he does, including tricks.

 

[serghei]

You are right.

I don't have anything against his move from yesterday.
even though, I can understand where are the guys, who dislike that move, coming from.

But Ney earned his reputation now among referees, opponents and neutral fans as a guy who often dives, provokes, fights, spits on opponents etc.

He will now have to live with that burden on his shoulders.

Let's be honest, Messi is Messi.
Some fouls on him are not fouls, but because he is Messi, he gets some fouls sometimes, which other players wouldn't get, isn't it?
On the other hand, once when you are known as a diver in the penalty box, referees won't give you penalties even when you are really fouled.
You have to live with that burden.

With Ney, the same story.
He earned his reputation among fans and players with some stupid things, and now a lot of players/neutral fans hate him, and even when he does nothing wrong or makes a tiny mistake, everyone will jump and sometimes kick him.

That is the point.
I don't see a point about arguing yesterday's "incident".
It was just a piece of the puzzle.

Was he right or was he wrong, it doesn't matter.
He will be kicked all the time from now on, from everyone.
And his every wrong step will be criticized by fans and media.

He lost his credit among neutrals and that's it.
He will need to invest a double or triple energy to get love from neutrals/opponents again.

And his attitude: I won't change anything or who I am=won't help him too much.
He seems to enjoy provoking opponents, even though he knows what will happen and that's it.
But then he has to be prepared for consequences.

Also, our fans should also be prepared for consequences and that he will be kicked more and more by the opponents, and that neutrals will hate him more and more.
This also means that eventually referees will stop giving him fouls, he will get more yellow cards for simulating, he won't get some deserved penalties etc.

But imo, it is silly to pretend that he didn't do anything (not yesterday, but in general), and we (Barca fans) are "wondering" why the opponents kick him and fight with him all the time, lol.

You're right in some cases (although there are many people, fans, and players that also like Neymar for his skills, goals and overall quality). But his bad rep doesn't really need to get the headlines when he does nothing wrong. Yea, if Neymar dives and gets a penalty, or if he does some nasty stuff to an opponent, yes, let's talk about his attitude. But why now? Because he dribbled a player, got fouled and some Bilbao players vented their frustration towards him?

 

[JamDav1982]

I heard a woman at my work mention Neymar the other day, someone who I have never even mention football before.

She had a young son 4/5 years old I think and he along with the other little kids love Neymar - asked to get his strip and hair cut!

In the north east of Scotland you wont see all that many Barca strips but Neymars are starting to pop up more and more.

So this idea that all neutrals hate him for his behaviour etc is way off. He has a huge fan base that is growing from what I can see.

 

[BBZ8800]

Also Ronaldinho was no angel at Barca he got into a lot of confrontations and had a short fuse at times.

So lets not try to change history that he never got involved in this kind of thing or got targeted by opponents.

Ronaldinho, while he was young and not overweight, was not getting that many cards.
When he did get cards, those were usually too hard tackles and similar.

Neymar, well, he is spitting on opponents, sending them kisses and similar things.
Come on, the guy is fighting virtually with anyone:

This is just another example how our fans are always diminishing bad things from our players.
Soon it will look as if Ney is as equally good/bad as Messi or Ronnie, lol.

Come on:

He is only 23, imagine how many similar scandals he will have by the age of 33-35.
Don't compare him with Ronnie's attitude.

 

[serghei]

So this idea that all neutrals hate him for his behaviour etc is way off. He has a huge fan base that is growing from what I can see.

Yea, I think so too. His opponents hate him, sure. But that also has to do with the fact that he constantly makes them look inferior. He is our little south-american version of Ronaldo, except he does not punches people, is happy when his teammates score, doesn't think personal records are a matter of life and death, and is just more fun to watch.

 

[mssarm]

Gerard Pique "Perhaps Neymar did not have to give such a spectacle,we should not give it too much importance, it is a bit of everything"
I personally like what Neymar is doing. We need someone like him to annoy, unbalance and infuriate our opposition. In the past Alves was our "Drama Queen" and his theatrics and exaggerations helped us in certain games. I'm glad we have Neymar as replacement for Alves.