11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[BBZ8800]

How neymar provokes ? Are you Seeing something i dont? Can you show me a gif or a video, of him provoking?

Not yesterday.
In general.

Have you read the whole topic and arguments?

This is what he often does, and then when you do stupid things 10-20 times, a FEW MONTHS LATER, he gets kicked by 100s of opponents, because he pissed everyone and everyone just want to kick him:

 

[messi2140]

Wait a sec. So Neymar is not allowed to do tricks like that because he hasn't "won anything yet" in Europe, eh? So you're saying only established "superstars" are allowed to try tricks? And that if a non-superstar tries tricks like that, the opposition players are justified in physically and verbally abusing that player? Seriously?

Becuase that's what I said.

Except Neymar has 38 goals and is on a way to winning a treble

He is on his way , which means that he still didnt reach his destiantion

 

[JamDav1982]

Not yesterday.
In general.

Have you read the whole topic and arguments?

This is what he often does, and then when you do stupid things 10-20 times, a FEW MONTHS LATER, he gets kicked by 100s of opponents, because he pissed everyone and everyone just want to kick him:

In that video the guy clearly says something to Neymar first.

Good on Neymar for not taking his shit and making him look a prick.

 

[CatalinR10]

Not yesterday.
In general.

Have you read the whole topic and arguments?

This is what he often does, and then when you do stupid things 10-20 times, a FEW MONTHS LATER, he gets kicked by 100s of opponents, because he pissed everyone and everyone just want to kick him:

I'm sure that guy said first something along the lines of ,, Wow Neymar , you made such a good game , you'll deff win the bdor one day "

 

[Sumlit]

Neymar's supposed "provocatios" are not the reason he gets kicked. Messi provokes no one, yet gets kicked no end. That's what happens when you're skillful and attempt take ons and dribbles, you get kicked.

Yesterday's game, San Jose and Bustinza committed 9 fouls combined, most of which were on Neymar and were of the sneaky dirty variety. Kicking the achilles, strafing the calf, nipping at his ankles. THAT is provocation.

There is something quite quite wrong when MULTIPLE malicious kicking to provoke a player is acceptable, but a SINGLE flair move in an attempt to beat a defender is not.

This discussion is ridiculous.

 

[BBZ8800]

In that video the guy clearly says something to Neymar first.

Good on Neymar for not taking his shit and making him look a prick.

I'm sure that guy said first something along the lines of ,, Wow Neymar , you made such a good game , you'll deff win the bdor one day "

Lol, guys, seriously, this is painful

Let's try to make it simple.

Barca has 3 world class FCs.
-- let's say that they will be kicked and provoked more or less the same over one Season

-- so, 100 players will kick Messi
-- 100 players will pull Messi shirts, kick him in every action, on every corner, whenever a referee is not looking
-- plus, whenever he has the ball
-- plus, they will say bad things to him all the time, trying to provoke him
-- the same will happen with Neymar and Suarez

-- now, after a 100 of provocations from the opponents in one Season:
-- if Messi has 2 incidents and 2 fights with opponents
-- if Suarez has, let's say, 5 fights
-- and if Neymar has 20 fights

What do you think then?
That opponents are provoking only Neymar, or that he loses his nerves more easily and falls to provocations, plus that he by himsfelf sometimes causes troubles?

The similar analogy would be Pepe/Ramos versus Puyol.
They are both defenders and they both have to distract opponent's forwards and foul them sometimes.

Then why idiots Pepe and Ramos get so many red cards, and why are they always fighting with everyone?
And Puyol is never fighting with anyone?

So:
1. either all opponents are provoking ONLY Pepe and Ramos
2. or, the opponents are provoking ALL PLAYERS, but guys like Puyol stays calm and don't answer to those provocations, and cowboys like Pepe, Ramos and Neymar need to answer to more or less every provocation

Hmm, what do you think is the right answer out of these two?

 

[Tiny Kim]

This post is a good example of what's wrong with the communication on this forum lately. People are constantly putting words into other people's mouths, and making conclusions based on something that's never been said.

Messi2140 never said anything about who's allowed to do what. He only stated those as the reasons why players are treated differently. Which is correct.

He didn't have to. It was clearly implied. Why bring up Neymar's achievement in Europe as an excuse for the way he was being disrespected by the Bilbao players if you don't mean it? And BTW, the reason he stated is not even fact. He's just taking a guess based on past events. That is why I questioned it in the first place.

 

[Tiny Kim]

Becuase that's what I said.

OK

 

[Sumlit]

Lol, guys, seriously, this is painful

Let's try to make it simple.

Barca has 3 world class FCs.
-- let's say that they will be kicked and provoked more or less the same over one Season

-- so, 100 players will kick Messi
-- 100 players will pull Messi shirts, kick him in every action, on every corner, whenever a referee is not looking
-- plus, whenever he has the ball
-- plus, they will say bad things to him all the time, trying to provoke him
-- the same will happen with Neymar and Suarez

-- now, after a 100 of provocations from the opponents in one Season:
-- if Messi has 2 incidents and 2 fights with opponents
-- if Suarez has, let's say, 5 fights
-- and if Neymar has 20 fights

What do you think then?
That opponents are provoking only Neymar, or that he loses his nerves more easily and falls to provocations, plus that he by himsfelf sometimes causes troubles?

The similar analogy would be Pepe/Ramos versus Puyol.
They are both defenders and they both have to distract opponent's forwards and foul them sometimes.

Then why idiots Pepe and Ramos get so many red cards, and why are they always fighting with everyone?
And Puyol is never fighting with anyone?

So:
1. either all opponents are provoking ONLY Pepe and Ramos
2. or, the opponents are provoking ALL PLAYERS, but guys like Puyol stays calm and don't answer to those provocations, and cowboys like Pepe, Ramos and Neymar need to answer to more or less every provocation

Hmm, what do you think is the right answer out of these two?

This is nonsense. Firstly why bring Pepe and Ramos? They don't get carded because they're provoked, they get carded because they're clumsy and violent defenders.

Secondly, Neymar gets fouled more than Messi and both get fouled more than Suarez. Now you can say Neymar falls easier than the other 2, fair enough, but if you want to use comparative numbers in your scenario, should go with 300 fouls for Neymar, 200 fouls for Messi and 100 fouls for Suarez. There you see more the picture.

Thirdly, it's too simplistic to reduce everything to total stats because Neymar doesn't respond on every game, but only in those special circumstances he gets specifically targeted. Neymar was fouled 8 times in yesterday's game. EIGHT times. Compared to 4 for Suarez and 2 for Messi. And it wasn't simple fouls either. They were targeting his legs with some borderline dirty stuff.

Why isn't that repeated targeted violence not considered provocation, yet a single instance of flashy attempt to beat a defender is? Nonsense.

 

[Stric]

He didn't have to. It was clearly implied. Why bring up Neymar's achievement in Europe as an excuse for the way he was being disrespected by the Bilbao players if you don't mean it? And BTW, the reason he stated is not even fact. He's just taking a guess based on past events. That is why I questioned it in the first place.

Ridiculous. You can't go around and decide on who implied what based on your reading of the post. He didn't say that, simple as that. And it was not an excuse for his treatment, it was an observation. Which is also why you're making the wrong assumption about what was implied. Nobody in their right mind would try to justify one of our own being mistreated. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the reasons why it's happening.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

For those saying Athletic's players weren't mad about the flick but about his attitude or whatever --> clicky

 

[KingMessi]

For those saying Athletic's players weren't mad about the flick but about his attitude or whatever --> clicky

Iraola's just mad because he can't pull one off.

 

[Vlom]

What a surprise .. I go to sleep, come back, and who's going hard on explaining why it's OK to punch Neymar and Bilbao players were right etc etc, posting one random video again and again to justify it .. the one and only, BBZ

I'm out of this thread, nothing can ever be discussed seriously without bias when it comes to Neymar.

I hope the kid doesn't get sick of this one day and leave us because his own coach indulges the opponents bullying him.
Yes I read the entire quote in spanish, and I still think Lucho fucked up on this one.

 

[Tiny Kim]

Ridiculous. You can't go around and decide on who implied what based on your reading of the post. He didn't say that, simple as that. And it was not an excuse for his treatment, it was an observation. Nobody in their right mind would try to justify one of our own being mistreated. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the reasons why it's happening.

Read his next post.

 

[BBZ8800]

This is nonsense. Firstly why bring Pepe and Ramos? They don't get carded because they're provoked, they get carded because they're clumsy and violent defenders.

Secondly, Neymar gets fouled more than Messi and both get fouled more than Suarez. Now you can say Neymar falls easier than the other 2, fair enough, but if you want to use comparative numbers in your scenario, should go with 300 fouls for Neymar, 200 fouls for Messi and 100 fouls for Suarez. There you see more the picture.

Thirdly, it's too simplistic to reduce everything to total stats because Neymar doesn't respond on every game, but only in those special circumstances he gets specifically targeted. Neymar was fouled 8 times in yesterday's game. EIGHT times. Compared to 4 for Suarez and 2 for Messi. And it wasn't simple fouls either. They were targeting his legs with some borderline dirty stuff.

Why isn't that repeated targeted violence not considered provocation, yet a single instance of flashy attempt to beat a defender is? Nonsense.

I could reply that Messi doesn't get fouled that often because he is Messi and he is uncatchable.
You can't take the ball away from him, and you can't even foul him.

So, I don't agree at all that defenders try more tackles and fouls on Ney.
They try the same amount on Messi and Ney.
But, Messi escapes from everything, because he is an alien. And a human, Neymar, is not that good, so he gets tackled or fouled more often.
And he in general falls for more provocations, and loses his nerves much faster.

About Pepe vs Puyol, you are missing the point.
Let's say it this way:
-- whenever there is some fighting, arguing and similar in Barca:Real match, you know that Pepe is involved and that he either:
1. provoked/dirty fouled someone
2. or that some other two players are fighting, and he will run right away and cause further problems and fights

Puyol, lol?
1. he won't provoke people or do unneccesary stupid fouls
2. plus, if there is a fight, he either won't come at all
-- or if he will come, he will try to calm down people, unlike Pepe who will try to cause even larger fight

If you can't see my point and the difference between some players and their general attitude towards fights and provocations, then we better stop, and we should end this.