11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[BBZ8800]

Africans can win these awards...just ask George Weah.

So much rubbish spouted to defend a statement that has no basis.

Try harder.
He won it in 90's.
In the days when even a Red Star Belgrade won the CL a few years earlier.
When football was not "money" like today.

Tell me more about other African players who won Ballon'd'or.
Or about eastern European countries, in whom sponsors aren't too interested.

OMG so much hate for all our players BBZ bar Pedro, you seriously need to stop undermining everyone and comparing them to past glory, otherwise we might just start undermining everyone using the excuse that they all had prime Xaviesta.. it's ridiculous.

I have wrote posts only against Neymar, Bartra, Rafinha and La masia overhyped players.
And I said that Messi needs a rest, lol.

People are biased towards Pep's Barca or current Barca.

Maybe Etoo will get love if I post his Goals against Real:

When I am defending Etoo, our legend, fans act as if I am attacking Barca.

 

[Bran the Greenseer]

Easy to forget how good Eto'o really was back in the day.

 

[JamDav1982]

BBZ trying the tried and tested 'if you dont agree with my over rating of a player you must hate them' routine. Which is a bit rich from someone who is claiming Ronaldinho only won a world player of the year award due to him being popular and a sponsors favourite.

'Weah won it in 90s try harder'...... ooh lame response. In fact what does that even mean. Did the football world become racists ten years late? Did the journalist, fans and players get together to make sure Etoo never won even one of the many awards going about?

What is the 'football about money' argument about? Sponsors told journalists, palyers and fans who to vote for.....think of the thousands of people involved in something like that....yet not one person has ever come out and said it.

Other African players have not won balon dor as none have deserved it but others like Drogba have been voted for and got in top 4/5

Again for at least fifth/sixth time and to try and get thread back to Neymar...what would it take you to rate Neymar with Etoo?

 

[Sumlit]

Again for at least fifth/sixth time and to try and get thread back to Neymar...what would it take you to rate Neymar with Etoo?

More goals from open play

 

[JamDav1982]

More goals from open play

Haha probably but I am sure he will change that rule soon if Neymar keep scoring.

The alternate rules of BBZ -

Dont use goals to decide who is the better player...unless it is to show Etoo scored most goals in 2005 so he should have been world player of year ahead of Ronaldinho.

Dont count Chmapions league goals in the debate, only league goals please.... unless it is Etoos goals in the CL of 2005/06 where he won the game single handed.

Dont say disagree against Etoo being better than Ronaldinho or you are being disrespectful towards a Barca legend. However it is ok to say Ronaldinho only won the balon dor through his popularity and sponsors.

Dont think Etoo could have possibly won balon dor as he was not as well known...but at same time aknoweldge the press was full of stories about Chelsea wanting to pay 100m for him.

 

[Sumlit]

Haha probably but I am sure he will change that rule soon if Neymar keep scoring.

Pshh. Everyone knows the only way goals count as open play for Neymar is if he scores while running the entire field, while simultaneously having a sign above his head that says "Open Play, BBZ aproved!" and is also carrying a bag of tomatoes in one hand, and of cucumbers in the other.

Anything other than that, don't even mention it in this thread, because it's irrelevant.

 

[Vlom]

Pshh. Everyone knows the only way goals count as open play for Neymar is if he scores while running the entire field, while simultaneously having a sign above his head that says "Open Play, BBZ aproved!" and is also carrying a bag of tomatoes in one hand, and of cucumbers in the other.

Anything other than that, don't even mention it in this thread, because it's irrelevant.

 

[Gasgas]

Neymar vs etoo is a wrong comparison. It should be dinho vs neymar, suarez vs etoo
Both neymar and suarez have a long way before they are better than etoo n dinho.
Suarez has produced in big games but has been hit and miss in smaller games, missing sitters and in some matches scoring
neymar needs to improve his playmaking but he has the ceiling and ccan reach dinhos level in veery few seasons. As for suarez if he shifts his big game form to all small games the same ccan bee said for him as well

 

[Sumlit]

Neymar vs etoo is a wrong comparison. It should be dinho vs neymar, suarez vs etoo
Both neymar and suarez have a long way before they are better than etoo n dinho.
Suarez has produced in big games but has been hit and miss in smaller games, missing sitters and in some matches scoring
neymar needs to improve his playmaking but he has the ceiling and ccan reach dinhos level in veery few seasons. As for suarez if he shifts his big game form to all small games the same ccan bee said for him as well

Suarez is more talented a footballer than Eto'o. Will he ever be the better Barcelona player, I don't think so. Eto'o had a very successful career at Barca and it would take Suarez 3 more season of great production and titles to equal Eto'o as a Barcelona player. Though he is certainly able to do it, mind you, it's just a difficult feat.

Neymar is the opposite, IMO. He is not more talented than Dinho, when just looking at raw talent, but considering his age and his trending upwards production, one could certainly see him become the better Barcelona player when his career is over, assuming he stays with Barca for the remainder of it.

 

[JamDav1982]

Suarez is more talented a footballer than Eto'o. Will he ever be the better Barcelona player, I don't think so. Eto'o had a very successful career at Barca and it would take Suarez 3 more season of great production and titles to equal Eto'o as a Barcelona player. Though he is certainly able to do it, mind you, it's just a difficult feat.

Neymar is the opposite, IMO. He is not more talented than Dinho, when just looking at raw talent, but considering his age and his trending upwards production, one could certainly see him become the better Barcelona player when his career is over, assuming he stays with Barca for the remainder of it.

Same for me. Neymar doesnt have the skill level of Ronaldinho.. does anyone? But he could well be a better player if he is more consistent week in week out and I also think Neymar is a lot harder working on pitch than Ronaldinho was.

As for Etoo/Suarez. Etoo is a legend I doubt Suarez will reach that levels in terms of a Barca player but if had to chose one now it would be Suarez.

What a bunch of players to be debating about though!

 

[BBZ8800]

For younger Barca's fans, to me, this is a funny thing:
-- in 2004-2005-2006-2007:
= our Barca with Ronnie and Etoo was hailed as the team who played the most beautiful football ever
-- and Ronnie was hailed as the best player in the history

-- 3-4 years later, during Pep:
= Pep's Barca was suddenly hailed as the best team in football's history
-- suddenly, that team has been proclaimed as a few levels better than Barca from 2004-2007'
-- also, Messi was better in everything than Ronnie

-- also, today, imagine if we will win the CL or two
-- this team will be hailed as the best team ever, even better than Pep's team (media will find some new "fact", like the most victories in 2015, unbeatable team, the most lethal attacking trio ever, the highest number of goals scored ever)

My point is, the same as with young La masia players, media is always hyping the current team, the current players, the current youngsters as=the best ever, and much different/better than players/teams from previous eras

Anyway, from your post it sounded that I am trashing Ronnie.

'Weah won it in 90s try harder'...... ooh lame response. In fact what does that even mean. Did the football world become racists ten years late? Did the journalist, fans and players get together to make sure Etoo never won even one of the many awards going about?

Yes.
Money became even more important in football.

Today, almost any crappy NT who is a host, will come to QF or SF of a world cup.
Because of money.

There is less and less surprises both on NT level and CL level.
When needed, Platini and guys will even manually push some teams (France vs Ireland scandal).
In CL, there are already theories that Barca and Real can never be drawn in semis, because Uefa is trying to get El Classico final.

Money is more and more important.
And Fifa/Uefa are pushing more and more biggest/richest nations, their players, clubs etc.

That is my point.
So, even if we will have some new Messi from Romania, Ukraine or from Africa, he will have problems to win Ballon'D'Or.
Some guys from western Europe or Brasil will win it.

Again for at least fifth/sixth time and to try and get thread back to Neymar...what would it take you to rate Neymar with Etoo?

I told a few times, I don't actually think that Ney is bad, but I am pissed with posts like:
-- Ney scored more goals than any Barca's player bar Messi
-- or Ney scored more Goals than Etoo etc

Ney is good.
But, the same as in other topic some claimed that Brasilian Ronaldo is not that great because he hasn't won too many trophies, I will say the same about Ney.
When he will win a few La liga titles with Barca and 1-2 CL titles, I will rate him the same as Ronnie and Etoo.

But that's the famous revisionism again.
If Barca will win 2-3 CLs in the next 5-6 years, Neymar will be hyped to the moon.
Imagine if we will win zero CLs in the next 5-6 years.
The hype will vanish soon, and media will find some new, "hotter" prospect. Plus, Ney would be remembered as good player, but who was not good enough to bring major trophies.

So, I will need some La ligas and at least one CL to rank him among our legends.

 

[JamDav1982]

Fair enough BBZ.

I will never agree that Ronaldinho won the awards in 2005 through a fix or sponsors dictating to fans, players and journalists. It is virtually impossible for so many people to have been involved in that and for it not to have one person come forward and say it happen. There would be hundreds of people making it public.

Not even sure what money men these days are supposed to have against Africans....they took the world cup there.

Players from anywhere can win the awards. Etoo didnt as he wasnt regarded as the best.

Do you agree with notion that Brasilian Ronaldo is less of a player than say Etoo due to less trophies?

 

[BBZ8800]

Fair enough BBZ.

I will never agree that Ronaldinho won the awards in 2005 through a fix or sponsors dictating to fans, players and journalists. It is virtually impossible for so many people to have been involved in that and for it not to have one person come forward and say it happen. There would be hundreds of people making it public.

Not even sure what money men these days are supposed to have against Africans....they took the world cup there.

Players from anywhere can win the awards. Etoo didnt as he wasnt regarded as the best.

It is easier to explain it numbers.
Let's say that, IMO, Messi is 100/100.
Cr7 is 90/100 etc. (in quality)

Now, my estimation, Ronnie was at 88 in 2004-05, and Etoo was at 90.
But Etoo was not "suitable" to be a Ballon'D'Or winner.

But in the upcoming Seasons, Ronnie improved to 95/100, and Etoo stayed at 90/100.
And then, Ronnie BOTH because of his improved displays plus because he was marketable, was picked to be Ballon D or.

But, my point is, even if Etoo would have improved to 95/100, and if Ronnie stayed at 88-90, Etoo still wouldn't win it.
Fifa would pick either Ronnie or would have found some random player from Europe/Brasil who performed well that Season and turn him into Fifa's Ballon D Or face.

So, Ronnie had perfect skills, plus he was marketable.
I am not saying that Ronnie's titles are undeserved.

 

[Sumlit]

What a bunch of players to be debating about though!

Indeed. I also like that aside from Barca creating the legacy of visually appealing attacking football, is also holding true a legacy of outstanding attacking tridents. Current one might end up being the best of the lot when you consider the likelihood of the three playing at peak shape for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[JamDav1982]

It is easier to explain it numbers.
Let's say that, IMO, Messi is 100/100.
Cr7 is 90/100 etc. (in quality)

Now, my estimation, Ronnie was at 88 in 2004-05, and Etoo was at 90.
But Etoo was not "suitable" to be a Ballon'D'Or winner.

But in the upcoming Seasons, Ronnie improved to 95/100, and Etoo stayed at 90/100.
And then, Ronnie BOTH because of his improved displays plus because he was marketable, was picked to be Ballon D or.

But, my point is, even if Etoo would have improved to 95/100, and if Ronnie stayed at 88-90, Etoo still wouldn't win it.
Fifa would pick either Ronnie or would finds some random player from Europe/Brasil who performed well that Season and turn him into Fifa's Ballon D Or face.

So, Ronnie had perfect skills, plus he was marketable.
I am not saying that Ronnie's titles are undeserved.

FIFA dont pick though. The players, fans and journalists pick and they all picked Ronaldinho.

Two of those three awards were completely independent of FIFA.

It wasnt fixed ans FIFA never put pressure on people to ignore Etoo. If anything FIFA in recent years have been desperate to break new markets - giving world cup to Korea and Africa. It would be a huge thing for them to have an African player win the award.

If you are saying FIFA fixed it or influenced people not to vote for Ronaldinho then that is clearly saying the award for him was not deserved and he won it through a fix.