11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

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jamrock

Senior Member
some just crazy opinions being posted here, i will just step away from the keyboard.

ps when it comes to important goals, you will be hard press to find a player as clutch as eto'o for club and country,

CL final goals
ACN final goal
Olympic final goal

he has basically scored in every final an african player could score in
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
some just crazy opinions being posted here, i will just step away from the keyboard.

ps when it comes to important goals, you will be hard press to find a player as clutch as eto'o for club and country,

CL final goals
ACN final goal
Olympic final goal

he has basically scored in every final an african player could score in

He was a great player no doubt.
 

RevoTeller

New member
Wtf?

Seriously, this is just disrespectful towards Etoo.
Etoo almost singlehandedly brought us a title in 2005, the first since 1999, with 25 league goals out of 73 Barca's league goals.
In 2006, the same story in La liga.
In Champions league, lol. Just lol.
Etoo scored winning Goal against 2nd best team in the world back then, Chelsea, at Stamford bridge for 1:2 win for us.
Chelsea was by far the strongest opponent who trashed us a year before (if they haven't knocked us out in 2005, we would probably win the CL even in 2005. We were the best team in Europe by far in 2005 and 2006).

So, goal against Chelsea at Stamford bridge and an equaliser in Paris for 1:1 against Arsenal, when we were totally lost on the field.

And sorry, but Suarez goals against Man. City and Psg who are not clubs who can win a CL are not as important as Etoo's Goals.

When Sukki will bring us a CL, we can talk about Suarez/Neymar versus Ronnie and Etoo.

Etoo's goals in 2005, when teams were scoring only 70 goals per Season:

Etoo's goal against Chelsea in 2006 QF:

Without Etoo, we would never win the CL in 2006, not with all Ronaldinho's and young Messi's of this world.

100% agree with this. As far as I'm concerned, this is a 10/10 post.

Maybe Etoo will get love if I post his Goals against Real:

When I am defending Etoo, our legend, fans act as if I am attacking Barca.
:thinking:

Fantastic. :worthy:

Easy to forget how good Eto'o really was back in the day.

^This. Easily the best african player ever.
 
Ok, when Spanish football won't be on top on NT level, and Barca and Real will still score 120 Goals per Season, what then?
Also, in a few years, when Messi and CR7 will be gone, if Barca and Real will still score 100-120 goals per Season, and I predict that they will, what then?

Why will stats be inflated then?
Because our new players will again be better (goals wise) than Ronnie and Etoo?

It seems that all current players are BEST EVA, right?

And, as a Barca fan, why is it ok to trash Etoo and say that Ney or Suarez is better?
= if a fan says that=then sounds ok on this forum, it seems

But if someone says that Etoo, our player and our legend, is/was better than Neymar or someone, then that person is anti-Barca, Barca hater and similar?

Just lol.
Are you fan of Barca, or a fan of Barca 2013-2015?

I see you've dropped the 1 goal = 1 point argument, good for you.
I was talking about club results, nothing about the spanish NT, but again good of you to mention it :lol:

I won't bother discussing post-messi hypothetic numbers because you "predict" them.

Stats are not inflated. Stats are stats. You use and misuse them to an incredible extent, everyone remarked upon that.

I don't bother comparing players, so ask that bit someone else.

Finally my join date and favorites should shed some light on your last sentence, but those are "stats" i guess so no wonder you didn't make a proper use of them :mou:

All players BEST EVA ? sure, anything you say.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
I see you've dropped the 1 goal = 1 point argument, good for you.
I was talking about club results, nothing about the spanish NT, but again good of you to mention it :lol:

I won't bother discussing post-messi hypothetic numbers because you "predict" them.

Stats are not inflated. Stats are stats. You use and misuse them to an incredible extent, everyone remarked upon that.

I don't bother comparing players, so ask that bit someone else.

Finally my join date and favorites should shed some light on your last sentence, but those are "stats" i guess so no wonder you didn't make a proper use of them :mou:

All players BEST EVA ? sure, anything you say.

Ok.
Could you offer some explanation on 2 simple questions:
1. how La liga since 2005 turned into a 2-horse race, while in the past Real and Barca were "all over the place" from position 1 to 6?
2. why Barca and Real started to score more and more Goals even without Messi+CR7 era (in La Liga)? (If stats are not inflated lately?)

Very simple questions, imo.

++ All your favorite players are from Pep's era or today.
More or less the same as what I have said.
(Barca's fans from Pep's era or later, are usually overhyping players from the lat 5-7-8 years)
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Ok.
Could you offer some explanation on 2 simple questions:
1. how La liga since 2005 turned into a 2-horse race, while in the past Real and Barca were "all over the place" from position 1 to 6?
2. why Barca and Real started to score more and more Goals even without Messi+CR7 era (in La Liga)? (If stats are not inflated lately?)

Very simple questions, imo.

++ All your favorite players are from Pep's era or today.
More or less the same as what I have said.

Ateltico won the league last year with Real third so not a complete two horse race.

Real or Barca won the league every season when Etoo played at Barca.

What do you mean scoring more and more goals without Messi and Ronaldo?
 
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Ok.
Could you offer some explanation on 2 simple questions:
1. how La liga since 2005 turned into a 2-horse race, while in the past Real and Barca were "all over the place" from position 1 to 6?
2. why Barca and Real started to score more and more Goals even without Messi+CR7 era (in La Liga)? (If stats are not inflated lately?)

Very simple questions, imo.

++ All your favorite players are from Pep's era or today.
More or less the same as what I have said.
(Barca's fans from Pep's era or later, are usually overhyping players from the lat 5-7-8 years)

Simple question ? Yea, right. Your own explanations are completely insufficient. I don't pretend to have the answer to something like that, and you shouldn't either.
Also check the difference between growth and inflation, don't see why you should use the latter without foundation to do so.

It's a fine thing to act as if my fav players weighed on your question since you didn't even take my join date into account. Btw, I only list very recent players because that's my choice.

And stop saying I overhype our current players, that's bullshit :) or start the quoting game.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Ateltico won the league last year with Real third so not a complete two horse race.

Seriously, Jam, what kind of argumentation is that?
I have wrote on previous pages:
-- in years 1996-2004:
-- Barca and Real finished on top2 spots=2 times in 9 Seasons
-- so: YES 2 times, NOT 7 times

Since 2005, in years 2015-2015:
-- Barca and Real finished 9 times in top2, out of 11 Seasons.
-- so: YES 9 times, NOT 2 times

It is not like EVERY Season they are in top 2.
But there is a significant change since 90's.


What do you mean scoring more and more goals without Messi and Ronaldo?

People were replying that Barca and Real score more Goals per League season (100, 110 or 120) Goals because Messi and Ronaldo, two greatest players eva' play here today.

I posted on previous pages that Barca's+Real's combined amount of league goals were rising from 130-140 to 160 and 188 even before the moment when Messi+Cristina played together in La Liga.

So, I am saying that numbers were inflating even before Messi+Ronaldo.
So, I am assuming that those numbers would be very high today even without Messi and Ronaldo.
Ok, probably not THAT high. Plus, we will never know that surely.

But again, numbers were rising (number of scored Goals by Barca+Real) in the same time since La Liga turned out to be a two horses race.

Simple question ? Yea, right. Your own explanations are completely insufficient. I don't pretend to have the answer to something like that, and you shouldn't either.
Also check the difference between growth and inflation, don't see why you should use the latter without foundation to do so.

It's a fine thing to act as if my fav players weighed on your question since you didn't even take my join date into account. Btw, I only list very recent players because that's my choice.

And stop saying I overhype our current players, that's bullshit :) or start the quoting game.

English is not my native language, and I am not having that rich vocabulary or awesome grammar, so I am surely using some words wrongly.
My bad.
But you get the point what I am trying to say, that is important.

I am not interested in quoting game.
I am saying honestly what pisses me here on Barca's forum.
A lot of users said that I am a Barca hater, that I am fan of Madrid or Chelsea or who knows what.

Anyway, not your posts, but some general posts. I agree with some of them, but when you look at all of them, you get the point how EVERYTHING from the current era is overhyped among younger (football) fans.

A few examples:
1. Messi is a goat (I agree with that)
2. CR7 is one of the greatest players ever (lol)
3. Neymar scored more Goals than any other Barca's attacker in the last xx years, except Messi (I had the feeling that posters are implying that he is better than other Barca's attacker in the last 20 years when they mention this stat, right?)
4. Suarez is probably the best Cf Barca ever had
5. MSN is the best attacking trio in the history of football game
6. Xavi is the greatest (football) midfielder of ALL time
7. Iniesta is very close to him, and he is better than Zidane
8. Puyol is the best Barca's CB in a history
9. Valdes is best Barca's GK in a history

Ok, now a serious question:
-- while these guys are awesome, but what about the Dream team? They won 4 titles in a row, and our first CL ever
-- can most of the fans name more than 3-4 players at all from our Dream team?
-- Puyol is the best, Valdes is the best, everyone are the best
-- now I am asking: is anyone from the Dream team actually the BEST in anything?
-- or all "best" spots are reserved ONLY for guys from Pep's era or post-Pep era (if you get my point? There is no way that everything is so awesome from the last 7-8 years, and that none player in Barca's history can compare with current Gods)

-- late 90's and early 00's, who is the best from that era?
= nobody, right?
-- only Rivaldo was a player whom people remember

Etc...

This is what bothers me.
Again, I watched Barca in the 90's and all Barca's in 00's and 10's.
And yes, some current players are awesome, but all generations had legends.

But, at least for me, when I am reading this forum, it sounds as if all players from the past were meh or nothing special, and that every player from the recent era is a goat, or the best player in the world, best player on his position in the world...
... or, at least=best Barca's player on that position in history

Pep Guardiola, lol? That guy was an awesome footballer.
Lucho was insane player who was running like crazy on every match, and who was a braveheart like Puyol in recent times.

But nobody is ever mentioning Pep, Lucho and similar players.
People say:
Xavi is the best ever.
Iniesta is the 2nd best ever.
Busi is the best Dmc ever.
Thiago is probably one of the best midfielders (ever, lol). I am joking now, but you get the point.

Everything from the past is forgotten.
And every player/action/goal/trophy from the recent era is insanely overhyped.

And then, I am losing my nerves because of that, and I tell to guys that Ney is not good as Ronnie or Etoo yet, and some guys act as if I have said:
= Real is better than Barca, Barca is the worst club in the universe and all Barca's players are crap, lol

(I am not saying that I haven't said some bad thing about Ney in the past for example, but you get my point, I hope)
 
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Sumlit

San Claudio Bravo
BBZ, why don't you open a new thread in the poll section about Eto'o vs Suarez and Ronaldinho vs Neymar. I think all this stuff would be better suited there instead of here.
 

Vlom

Previously known as Mehssi
waiting1.gif
 
OK that's what pisses you off. But as I said I don't compare players or generations and you just threw these things that piss you off at me just because I contradicted you.

I don't mind that, really. What does annoy me is that you constantly post a flow of data that you use as you will to the point of absurdity. You get lost in your own reasoning, starting with something like
-- how come we score more goals now than then ?
-- they tell me it's partly because we're better now
-- so, more goals is better
-- so, Neymar > Ronaldinho?
-- HELL NO, can't agree with that

and yes you've stirred a lot of negativity about Neymar, while i genuinely don't see anyone attempt to diss previous generations. That is unless you consider Xavi or Iniesta being the most talented and successful barça midfielders a hit on other players.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Why look at it as stats before Messi and Ronaldo combined? That still counts Messis improvement to Barcelonas attack but tries to write it off as before they combined in La Liga.

The jump in number of goals from Messi and Ronaldo shoudlnt be expected to come just when they are both in the league.

The seasons before Ronaldo arrived at Madrid they scored 83/84 goals then jumped up sharply once he arrived. It is quite easy to see a big jump.
 

Bran the Greenseer

Well-known member
Seriously, Jam, what kind of argumentation is that?
I have wrote on previous pages:
-- in years 1996-2004:
-- Barca and Real finished on top2 spots=2 times in 9 Seasons
-- so: YES 2 times, NOT 7 times

Since 2005, in years 2015-2015:
-- Barca and Real finished 9 times in top2, out of 11 Seasons.
-- so: YES 9 times, NOT 2 times

It is not like EVERY Season they are in top 2.
But there is a significant change since 90's.




People were replying that Barca and Real score more Goals per League season (100, 110 or 120) Goals because Messi and Ronaldo, two greatest players eva' play here today.

I posted on previous pages that Barca's+Real's combined amount of league goals were rising from 130-140 to 160 and 188 even before the moment when Messi+Cristina played together in La Liga.

So, I am saying that numbers were inflating even before Messi+Ronaldo.
So, I am assuming that those numbers would be very high today even without Messi and Ronaldo.
Ok, probably not THAT high. Plus, we will never know that surely.

But again, numbers were rising (number of scored Goals by Barca+Real) in the same time since La Liga turned out to be a two horses race.



English is not my native language, and I am not having that rich vocabulary or awesome grammar, so I am surely using some words wrongly.
My bad.
But you get the point what I am trying to say, that is important.

I am not interested in quoting game.
I am saying honestly what pisses me here on Barca's forum.
A lot of users said that I am a Barca hater, that I am fan of Madrid or Chelsea or who knows what.

Anyway, not your posts, but some general posts. I agree with some of them, but when you look at all of them, you get the point how EVERYTHING from the current era is overhyped among younger (football) fans.

A few examples:
1. Messi is a goat (I agree with that)
2. CR7 is one of the greatest players ever (lol)
3. Neymar scored more Goals than any other Barca's attacker in the last xx years, except Messi (I had the feeling that posters are implying that he is better than other Barca's attacker in the last 20 years when they mention this stat, right?)
4. Suarez is probably the best Cf Barca ever had
5. MSN is the best attacking trio in the history of football game
6. Xavi is the greatest (football) midfielder of ALL time
7. Iniesta is very close to him, and he is better than Zidane
8. Puyol is the best Barca's CB in a history
9. Valdes is best Barca's GK in a history

Ok, now a serious question:
-- while these guys are awesome, but what about the Dream team? They won 4 titles in a row, and our first CL ever
-- can most of the fans name more than 3-4 players at all from our Dream team?
-- Puyol is the best, Valdes is the best, everyone are the best
-- now I am asking: is anyone from the Dream team actually the BEST in anything?
-- or all "best" spots are reserved ONLY for guys from Pep's era or post-Pep era (if you get my point? There is no way that everything is so awesome from the last 7-8 years, and that none player in Barca's history can compare with current Gods)

-- late 90's and early 00's, who is the best from that era?
= nobody, right?
-- only Rivaldo was a player whom people remember

Etc...

This is what bothers me.
Again, I watched Barca in the 90's and all Barca's in 00's and 10's.
And yes, some current players are awesome, but all generations had legends.

But, at least for me, when I am reading this forum, it sounds as if all players from the past were meh or nothing special, and that every player from the recent era is a goat, or the best player in the world, best player on his position in the world...
... or, at least=best Barca's player on that position in history

Pep Guardiola, lol? That guy was an awesome footballer.
Lucho was insane player who was running like crazy on every match, and who was a braveheart like Puyol in recent times.

But nobody is ever mentioning Pep, Lucho and similar players.
People say:
Xavi is the best ever.
Iniesta is the 2nd best ever.
Busi is the best Dmc ever.
Thiago is probably one of the best midfielders (ever, lol). I am joking now, but you get the point.

Everything from the past is forgotten.
And every player/action/goal/trophy from the recent era is insanely overhyped.

And then, I am losing my nerves because of that, and I tell to guys that Ney is not good as Ronnie or Etoo yet, and some guys act as if I have said:
= Real is better than Barca, Barca is the worst club in the universe and all Barca's players are crap, lol

(I am not saying that I haven't said some bad thing about Ney in the past for example, but you get my point, I hope)

I agree that players can be overhyped, but that is also true for older players. Zidane being a perfect example. Rated top 5 by many but iniesta can match every achievement he made with the exception of the individual trophies which can be discounted as everyone can agree that Zidane wouldn't have won his individual awards had he been playing behind Messi.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Just had a quick look and the average number of goals scored from 2008 until the end of last season is only about 15 more goals a season than the Cruyff dream team at its peak.

Hardly the unheard of figures that BBZ tries to make out they are and quite easy to see players like Messi bridge that gap of 15 goals.

The two clubs also combined for 200 goals in 89/90.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
Just had a quick look and the average number of goals scored from 2008 until the end of last season is only about 15 more goals a season than the Cruyff dream team at its peak.

Hardly the unheard of figures that BBZ tries to make out they are and quite easy to see players like Messi bridge that gap of 15 goals.

The two clubs also combined for 200 goals in 89/90.

Jam, you are always doing the same thing.

If I post 100 years in row, from 1901 to 2000, and if I show how the average was slightly rising from 1901 to 2000 (on a larger sample on 100 years).
You will just pick a year, let's say 1913 (that year will be slightly different than the average and my whole argument) and say: "you see, you are wrong"

That's not how it works.

Similar analogy would be:
-- I tell you that if you flip a coin 1000 times, on larger samples you will get the result closer and closer to 500:500 head/tails.

Then someone will come in and say: I flipped a coin 4 times now, and I had 4 heads, so your theory is wrong.

Well, no it isn't.

You can agree that stats about league goals scored by Barca+Real either mean something or not in this discussion.
But you can't deny that something "happened" with those numbers over the years (again, not only because of Messi and CR7, because numbers were rising even before 2009-10 Season):
1999-00: 70+58=128 (Galacticos won a CL)
2000-01: 80+81=161
2001-02: 65+69=134 (Galacticos won a CL)
2002-03: 63+86=149
2003-04: 63+72=135, (Messi+Ronaldo 0+0=0 Goals)
2004-05: 73+71=144, (Messi+Ronaldo 1+0=1)
2005-06: 80+70=150, (Messi+Ronaldo 6+0=6)
2006-07: 78+66=144, (Messi+Ronaldo 14+0=14)
2007-08: 76+84=160, (Messi+Ronaldo 10+0=10)
2008-09: 105+83=188, (Messi+Ronaldo 23+0=23)
2009-10: 98+102=200, (Messi+Ronaldo 34+26=60)
2010-11: 95+102=197, (Messi+Ronaldo 31+40=71)
2011-12: 114+121=235, (Messi+Ronaldo 50+46=96)
2012-13: 115+103=218, (Messi+Ronaldo 46+34=80)
2013-14: 100+104=204, (Messi+Ronaldo 28+31=59)
 
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