11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[Height18]

see, that's kind of what i'm talking about.

Apparently giving 10/10 to neymar's finishing and 6/10 to the rest is a blasphemy. Four years as a registered user here and i get accused of pushing a fake agenda (rofl), one notorious neymar fanboy gets excited(no comment), mr couter questions if i really am a barça fan .
All this when i've been careful to note that this is my personal impression from watching the game, that neymar's key role is indeed finishing and he's doing it perfectly. That's how low this thread is and has pretty much always been, fuck if i know. Cheers flavia for actually arguing and serghei for not attacking like a rabid dog.

No need in trying to play a victim, either address the rebuttals that are filled with facts or dont. Its not that serious.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

Ok so you basically reject the stats Torn, what does "exclusively from watching the games" mean ?

If you have a made up opinion, it won't change then if you reject every reasonable fact because it doesn't match what you "feel"..

I am absolutely certain that if Neymar was an awesome dribbler/creater and bad finisher/scorer, like say Hazard, we'd be having the same discussion but in reverse, "yeah we don't need creaters we have messi, we need him to score".

I had missed your post. Never been a friend to stats, especially cloudy as hell such as chances created. They may be useful when you don't get to watch a game or a team, but i'll never let such a vague stat convince me of the opposite of what i've been watching. If you think the notion of created chance is clear cut, check again. I've dissed it for some time, you can research it if you want. I don't have a "made up opinion" anymore or any less than anyone. I'll pass on the rejecting any fact coming my way, you made an honest mistake.

Hate it or love it, I have no agenda whatsoever against neymar, there's nothing in it for me and i've successfully avoided most facepalm-worthy discussions on this pretty shitty thread. Your bolded statement is wrong and silly because I've never ever said that neymar's creativity was key. His finishing is. That's why we won a freaking treble with him.

Take a step back (not you in particular vlom) and see how far things get when any aspect of Neymar is criticized. It's ridiculous.

No need in trying to play a victim, either address the rebuttals that are filled with facts or dont. Its not that serious.

I am the victim here, not playing anything and if you think that i will discuss anything with anyone accusing me of creating fake shit for x reason then you are deluded. Keep your balls won back chart where neymar stands at a whooping 8th place and tell yourself you're right mr fact man. I've responded to flavia and vlom and more, certainly brought more to the table than you did so thank you for your hypocritical advice.

 

[Flavia]

see, that's kind of what i'm talking about.

Apparently giving 10/10 to neymar's finishing and 6/10 to the rest is a blasphemy. Four years as a registered user here and i get accused of pushing a fake agenda (rofl), one notorious neymar fanboy gets excited(no comment), mr couter questions if i really am a barça fan .
All this when i've been careful to note that this is my personal impression from watching the game, that neymar's key role is indeed finishing and he's doing it perfectly. That's how low this thread is and has pretty much always been, fuck if i know. Cheers flavia for actually arguing and serghei for not attacking like a rabid dog.

I give similar ratings to yours, but 9/10 for his finishing. He missed quite a few sitters this past season

 

[Height18]

I am the victim here, not playing anything and if you think that i will discuss anything with anyone accusing me of creating fake shit for x reason then you are deluded. Keep your balls won back chart where neymar stands at a whooping 8th place and tell yourself you're right mr fact man. I've responded to flavia and vlom and more, certainly brought more to the table than you did so thank you for your hypocritical advice.

"I am the victim here" No you are not, its a forum where people go back and forth. Some people hit you with some factual stats, and you scream "OMG IM BEING ATTACKED, OMG THIS THREAD IS SHIT, OMG I'M A VICTIM" As I said before its not that serious.

" neymar stands at a whooping 8th place" Yes for example ahead of someone like Suarez who has a perception of having had done way better defensively and working much harder last season than Neymar, when its not true. And you knew that was the point being made.

 

[Vlom]

I had missed your post. Never been a friend to stats, especially cloudy as hell such as chances created. They may be useful when you don't get to watch a game or a team, but i'll never let such a vague stat convince me of the opposite of what i've been watching. If you think the notion of created chance is clear cut, check again. I've dissed it for some time, you can research it if you want. I don't have a "made up opinion" anymore or any less than anyone. I'll pass on the rejecting any fact coming my way, you made an honest mistake.

Hate it or love it, I have no agenda whatsoever against neymar, there's nothing in it for me and i've successfully avoided most facepalm-worthy discussions on this pretty shitty thread. Your bolded statement is wrong and silly because I've never ever said that neymar's creativity was key. His finishing is. That's why we won a freaking treble with him.

Take a step back (not you in particular vlom) and see how far things get when any aspect of Neymar is criticized. It's ridiculous.

I have no agenda pro-neymar either (I only blindly love Messi haha), but the kid really gets some very harsh criticism in here, and no compliment towards him goes untagged by "fanboy" .. so it's a pretty sensitive thread, always has been.

To me it's pretty simple, the last 2 / 3 seasons we have severely lacked a finisher, Messi was still there creating just the same, it's Alexis/Pedro/Fabregas that were killing us, now we have an amazing finisher in Neymar, scoring Messi/CR level goals/season at only 23, AND no matter how childlish he may seem he at least is loyal so far and has not toyed with the club like other 20-ish players one tenth his level.. why not just enjoy him and praise him a little bit just like we do with Messi, Suarez, Rakitic ...

PS : you did say "we'll never know if he was brought in for his finishing" mate, i'm all ok discussing stuff but don't change what you say halfway either

 

[DonAK]

Neymar is a creative player. Perhaps not as creative as the very best, but he's not a dud at it either. He had more assists and chances created in his first season I think(a season which was a mess), his role simply changed this season even though he could have done better, sometimes his final passes are wayward or got too much/little power in it.

He was looking to play more passes in the Gamper trophy game. Especially to Suarez. Let's see if that continues.

 

[Jadentheman]

 

[Alik]

" neymar stands at a whooping 8th place" Yes for example ahead of someone like Suarez who has a perception of having had done way better defensively and working much harder last season than Neymar, when its not true. And you knew that was the point being made.

The reason Suarez is so low is because he has played fewer matches. Same with Mathieu and why players like Bartra aren't even top 10.

 

[TornAndFrayed]

And of course looking at these kind of stats some people start wondering about the influence of playing position. Like, do we seriously expect a 9 to intercept more balls than a winger.

Others don't bother and take it as fact, i'm a bit worried for them.

I have no agenda pro-neymar either (I only blindly love Messi haha), but the kid really gets some very harsh criticism in here, and no compliment towards him goes untagged by "fanboy" .. so it's a pretty sensitive thread, always has been.

I have complimented him without being called so (it was close though i guess ) definitely a very sensitive thread though.

To me it's pretty simple, the last 2 / 3 seasons we have severely lacked a finisher, Messi was still there creating just the same, it's Alexis/Pedro/Fabregas that were killing us, now we have an amazing finisher in Neymar, scoring Messi/CR level goals/season at only 23, AND no matter how childlish he may seem he at least is loyal so far and has not toyed with the club like other 20-ish players one tenth his level.. why not just enjoy him and praise him a little bit just like we do with Messi, Suarez, Rakitic ...

PS : you did say "we'll never know if he was brought in for his finishing" mate, i'm all ok discussing stuff but don't change what you say halfway either

I have complimented him without being called so (it was close though i guess ) definitely a very sensitive thread though.
Yes we have lacked a finisher like crazy. We got two in two years. Ney only transformed into one last season.
I don't think i ever criticized neymar for anything off-pitch, but so many people did i won't blame you for assuming i was one of them if you did assume so.

I dont understand your PS: what i've said is that we can't really pinpoint to one particular reason for signing neymar. It's not like rosell looked at alexis and Pedro and only then thought of signing the kid. He's a super talented young forward talent who's not a finished product yet. As we have seen in 13-14 when neymar clearly wasn't set in such a finishing role. Tell me if you think i got it wrong somewhere or wasn't clear.

 

[Bilal Khan]

I had missed your post. Never been a friend to stats, especially cloudy as hell such as chances created. They may be useful when you don't get to watch a game or a team, but i'll never let such a vague stat convince me of the opposite of what i've been watching. If you think the notion of created chance is clear cut, check again. I've dissed it for some time




I am the victim here, not playing anything and if you think that i will discuss anything with anyone accusing me of creating fake shit for x reason then you are deluded. Keep your balls won back chart where neymar stands at a whooping 8th place

hahaha the hypocrisy or irony or whatever is too damn high

 

[Hamzah]

Am I the "notorious neymar fanboy"?

 

[TornAndFrayed]

hahaha the hypocrisy or irony or whatever is too damn high

another sensible guy joins the fun i see.

If you'd bother to read, I don't like at all the chances created stats fo reasons i've explained.
Balls won back, on the other hand, are much more reliable.

The only reason i mentioned this guy's chart is that he claims to have "lots of factual arguments" and all he's got is this chart that doesn't even make neymar look good. No hypocrisy there. But this word is vastly overused. Capisci ?
[MENTION=2258]Hamzah[/MENTION] lol no. But your views can be really weird sometimes
edit: it was barcalove, got banned for it apparently though i would not single him out

 

[Hamzah]

That's part of my charm

 

[footyfan]

see, that's kind of what i'm talking about.

Apparently giving 10/10 to neymar's finishing and 6/10 to the rest is a blasphemy. Four years as a registered user here and i get accused of pushing a fake agenda (rofl), one notorious neymar fanboy gets excited(no comment), mr couter questions if i really am a barça fan .
All this when i've been careful to note that this is my personal impression from watching the game, that neymar's key role is indeed finishing and he's doing it perfectly. That's how low this thread is and has pretty much always been, fuck if i know. Cheers flavia for actually arguing and serghei for not attacking like a rabid dog.

How many great final passes have you seen from Suarez? A lot of Suarez assists come from him being in the right position to assist. Why aren't you complaining about Suarez not getting as many goals as Neymar? Why only complain about Neymar not getting assists?

 

[TornAndFrayed]

How many great final passes have you seen from Suarez? A lot of Suarez assists come from him being in the right position to assist. Why aren't you complaining about Suarez not getting as many goals as Neymar? Why only complain about Neymar not getting assists?

Very few. Just like Neymar. Neymar is in a much, much better position to attempt such final passes though, i dont think you'll disagree with that.
Why am i not complaining about suarez ? Because he missed quite a lot of chances early on then started putting most of them in. He's not really missing the target anymore than neymar is. We've already discussed this so perhaps you should remember that i find suarez a much more complete and less frustrating footballer, that's why i don't criticize him, good enough no ?
Neymar comparatively fails much harder at creating and assisting than suarez does at scoring. FYI, this is the first time i directly mention assists. My beef with neymar is mostly about his lack of creativity outside the box.

I'm a little worn out now, let me just bow out by saying what i've said before: neymar has an insane ceiling which is precisely why i expect a lot. Yes he is (slowly) improving on his weaknesses and i do believe that he will fix most of them.

People on both "sides" have gotten crazy and paranoid with neymar. I know very well that some have unfairly been labelled fanboys while i'm kinda labelled a hater this time. I sincerely don't think i did any such thing.