11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[Samusbresolino]

These are 2 videos of him before going to Barcelona. Among all his trickery and goals it's hard to find videos focused on his assists, but there are some good ones on those:



[youtube]emRahDljkuE[/youtube]

[youtube]HFinhni0lhI[/youtube]

He DOES have the intelligence and vision to make assists, he is actually trying those a lot in the last games, but they are always being intercepted... He sees the play, understands what must be done, but is late. So the problem is not his intelligence or vision, but the timing, he is not used to the tempo. At 23 years old, he has plenty of time to improve on that and I fully believe he will.

 

[Jadentheman]

You can find Gui7herme comps of his days at Santos

 

[Jadentheman]

Gui7herme delivers

 

[Vlom]

Gui7herme delivers

Great performance. Love the bromance with Messi and Suarez.

It also seems that all is forgiven between him and Lucho, which is great news !!

 

[Icarium]

Lucho: Can i sub you?
Neymar: You will face my wrath if you do that
Lucho: Okay dokie. Let us just pretend this conversation never happened.
Neymar: Sure

They were hiding their mouths too

 

[Ekul]

I'm fed up of football being broken down into stats. Yes, they can play a part in helping us to understand something or to judge a player's output but I think it's going too far. For example, look at Neymar's goal vs Espanyol last weekend. Messi makes an amazing, incisive long pass and Suarez uses great awareness to dummy the ball for Neymar - but Jordi Alba takes the assist, Neymar gets the goal. Not to undermine Alba's work but the true genius on that goal came from Messi and Suarez.

Furthermore, if we weren't living in the modern era of stats, the Messi vs Ronaldo argument wouldn't even exist. Stats make Lampard look like a far superior player to Iniesta. They should be taken with a pinch of salt, IMO.

So can we stop with the "player x has x amount of goals from open play with his weak foot, after 8:30pm during away games" and judge their impact by watching the matches and enjoying the genius that unfolds before our eyes?

Football is an art, not Maths.

 

[Samusbresolino]

I'm fed up of football being broken down into stats. Yes, they can play a part in helping us to understand something or to judge a player's output but I think it's going too far. For example, look at Neymar's goal vs Espanyol last weekend. Messi makes an amazing, incisive long pass and Suarez uses great awareness to dummy the ball for Neymar - but Jordi Alba takes the assist, Neymar gets the goal. Not to undermine Alba's work but the true genius on that goal came from Messi and Suarez.

Furthermore, if we weren't living in the modern era of stats, the Messi vs Ronaldo argument wouldn't even exist. Stats make Lampard look like a far superior player to Iniesta. They should be taken with a pinch of salt, IMO.

So can we stop with the "player x has x amount of goals from open play with his weak foot, after 8:30pm during away games" and judge their impact by watching the matches and enjoying the genius that unfolds before our eyes?

Football is an art, not Maths.

Kinda agree with this. You can't have a precise measurement of a player's abilities by numbers alone. At most, you can see what that player does on average, but each individual play can be unique and worth more than a "+1" in that player's account. Personally I think opening goals have a bit more value than scoring the 5th goal in a 5-0 win, for example. Also more difficult and more aestetic pleasing goals.... But then things start to get too subjective and hard to condense into a rational argument.

 

[BBZ8800]

Football is an art, not Maths.

For Barca, football is both art and maths.
I am not talking about Neymar now, but in general.

If we will win trophies in Mourinho's style, and play ugly=our fans will be angry.
If we will play beautiful football without an end product and without trophies=our fans will be angry.
= we usually need to play both beautiful and effective.

About Lampard and Iniesta, it is not that simple.
Every team needs a different type of players.
Barca can easily survive with Xavi+Iniesta without goals (even without assists), as long as our team in general is controlling matches, dominating and usually creating 15 shots per matches.
They will create something (not assists, but pre-assists), and attackers will score.

About Neymar not creating assists, I don't mind about that, because our current system works more or less good even in this way where Neymar is a scorer and not a true playmaker (like Messi, for example).
Midfield and Messi will create 20s of chances, and Messi, Neymar and Suarez will convert 3-4 out of them.

So, there is no problem with Ney's assists in the current system, imo.
But, in some other parallel universe, where we wouldn't have Messi on RW, and Xavi/Iniesta/Rakitic as Mf's, well, in that case our team would create less chances and then Ney would need to change his game to deliver more assists, because we wouldn't have current creators then.

The same about Lampard/Iniesta.
Lampard would be a crap here because we need creators in midfield, and not scorers.
On the other hand, Iniesta would probably be a weaker midfield player in Mourinho's Chelsea from the past than Lampard, because Lampard offers some different things.

So, a football is both maths and art.
But also, all players should be looked in the context with whom they are playing and what is their duty in the team.
Pedro can play well with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Pedro's in the attack wouldn't work because nobody would score then.
Ney can play and score a lot with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Neymar's alone in the attack, probably wouldn't work too well, because each one of them would be more a scorer than a creator, so 3 Neymar's in attack would lack balls and chances created by their teammates.

So, a lot of things are influencing how a player plays and how many Goals, assists and preassists he has.

 

[Gasgas]

For Barca, football is both art and maths.
I am not talking about Neymar now, but in general.

If we will win trophies in Mourinho's style, and play ugly=our fans will be angry.
If we will play beautiful football without an end product and without trophies=our fans will be angry.
= we usually need to play both beautiful and effective.

About Lampard and Iniesta, it is not that simple.
Every team needs a different type of players.
Barca can easily survive with Xavi+Iniesta without goals (even without assists), as long as our team in general is controlling matches, dominating and usually creating 15 shots per matches.
They will create something (not assists, but pre-assists), and attackers will score.

About Neymar not creating assists, I don't mind about that, because our current system works more or less good even in this way where Neymar is a scorer and not a true playmaker (like Messi, for example).
Midfield and Messi will create 20s of chances, and Messi, Neymar and Suarez will convert 3-4 out of them.

So, there is no problem with Ney's assists in the current system, imo.
But, in some other parallel universe, where we wouldn't have Messi on RW, and Xavi/Iniesta/Rakitic as Mf's, well, in that case our team would create less chances and then Ney would need to change his game to deliver more assists, because we wouldn't have current creators then.

The same about Lampard/Iniesta.
Lampard would be a crap here because we need creators in midfield, and not scorers.
On the other hand, Iniesta would probably be a weaker midfield player in Mourinho's Chelsea from the past than Lampard, because Lampard offers some different things.

So, a football is both maths and art.
But also, all players should be looked in the context with whom they are playing and what is their duty in the team.
Pedro can play well with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Pedro's in the attack wouldn't work because nobody would score then.
Ney can play and score a lot with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Neymar's alone in the attack, probably wouldn't work too well, because each one of them would be more a scorer than a creator, so 3 Neymar's in attack would lack balls and chances created by their teammates.

So, a lot of things are influencing how a player plays and how many Goals, assists and preassists he has.

 

[linetty]

Courtesy of El País:

Messi 176 passes to Suárez this season.
Messi --> Neymar 250
Suárez --> Messi 173
Suárez --> Neymar 122
Neymar --> Messi 329
Neymar --> Suárez 148

 

[Barcalove]

For Barca, football is both art and maths.
I am not talking about Neymar now, but in general.

If we will win trophies in Mourinho's style, and play ugly=our fans will be angry.
If we will play beautiful football without an end product and without trophies=our fans will be angry.
= we usually need to play both beautiful and effective.

About Lampard and Iniesta, it is not that simple.
Every team needs a different type of players.
Barca can easily survive with Xavi+Iniesta without goals (even without assists), as long as our team in general is controlling matches, dominating and usually creating 15 shots per matches.
They will create something (not assists, but pre-assists), and attackers will score.

About Neymar not creating assists, I don't mind about that, because our current system works more or less good even in this way where Neymar is a scorer and not a true playmaker (like Messi, for example).
Midfield and Messi will create 20s of chances, and Messi, Neymar and Suarez will convert 3-4 out of them.

So, there is no problem with Ney's assists in the current system, imo.
But, in some other parallel universe, where we wouldn't have Messi on RW, and Xavi/Iniesta/Rakitic as Mf's, well, in that case our team would create less chances and then Ney would need to change his game to deliver more assists, because we wouldn't have current creators then.

The same about Lampard/Iniesta.
Lampard would be a crap here because we need creators in midfield, and not scorers.
On the other hand, Iniesta would probably be a weaker midfield player in Mourinho's Chelsea from the past than Lampard, because Lampard offers some different things.

So, a football is both maths and art.
But also, all players should be looked in the context with whom they are playing and what is their duty in the team.
Pedro can play well with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Pedro's in the attack wouldn't work because nobody would score then.
Ney can play and score a lot with Messi and Suarez around him.
But 3 Neymar's alone in the attack, probably wouldn't work too well, because each one of them would be more a scorer than a creator, so 3 Neymar's in attack would lack balls and chances created by their teammates.

So, a lot of things are influencing how a player plays and how many Goals, assists and preassists he has.

Right, because Fred,Hulk,Jo,Damiao are all players who creates alot, thats why brazil won a confederation cup with neymar as the best player on the cup .

You should at least search his past before joining barcelona to make such statements, neymar never were hyped because of being an "finisher" only.

 

[mark1nhu]

Right, because Fred,Hulk,Jo,Damiao are all players who creates alot, thats why brazil won a confederation cup with neymar as the best player on the cup .

You should at least search his past before joining barcelona to make such statements, neymar never were hyped because of being an "finisher" only.

Totally agree with you.

Most people here have a different image from "original" Neymar because, well, he plays very different now with Barcelona.

He is creative and his middle name is creativity. But since he joined Barca he has been a conservative player for his standards (not talking about Barça standards).

He also has a incredible dribble portfolio, but actually showed little to nothing in that aspect to Barça fans, mostly because of this new conservative style, IMHO.

And he is also a very good playmaker, with his own style, of course. But, you know, we really don't need him at this role.

So, Neymar "the finisher" is a big misconception.

A fair one, of course, because he is the one leading to that, but still a misconception.

I hope he gets more and more comfortable and confident to show all his tools in the next two years, beside the finishing.

I really don't want him to become a CR7 type of player. It would be a waste of talent.

 

[Kerrybai]

Neymar is certainly creative, he just doesn't have the vision of Messi and to a lesser extent Suarez. They see passes that Neymar doesn't see, and Messi in particular can execute these passes with incredible accuracy.

 

[Barcalove]

Totally agree with you.

Most people here have a different image from "original" Neymar because, well, he plays very different now with Barcelona.

He is creative and his middle name is creativity. But since he joined Barca he has been a conservative player for his standards (not talking about Barça standards).

He also has a incredible dribble portfolio, but actually showed little to nothing in that aspect to Barça fans, mostly because of this new conservative style, IMHO.

And he is also a very good playmaker, with his own style, of course. But, you know, we really don't need him at this role.

So, Neymar "the finisher" is a big misconception.

A fair one, of course, because he is the one leading to that, but still a misconception.

I hope he gets more and more comfortable and confident to show all his tools in the next two years, beside the finishing.

I really don't want him to become a CR7 type of player. It would be a waste of talent.

Exactly, what neymar is doing this season is not what he really is, he was praised as a huge talent not because of his finishes, but because of his skills and huge creativity on the pitch, but now on barcelona, he doesnt need to create alot, because we have Messi to do that

 

[Barcalove]

Neymar is certainly creative, he just doesn't have the vision of Messi and to a lesser extent Suarez. They see passes that Neymar doesn't see, and Messi in particular can execute these passes with incredible accuracy.

Based on what? How many assists he has? What about his backheel passes? His 1-2s in tight spaces? In manchester city first leg, he did 2'great balls to suarez, but no one said anything because suarez missed it