11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

[JamDav1982]

Neuer should have won that year. Him comming 2nd best behind a Ronaldo who was embarassing with Portugal at the World Cup was funny to say the least. And once again showed offensive players are favoured at the BD'or.

Neuer was not a better or more influential player for his team than Ronaldo who won the CL nor was he the better player across the board than Messi.

 

[serghei]

Neuer was not a better or more influential player for his team than Ronaldo who won the CL nor was he the better player across the board than Messi.

Ronaldo wasn't that influential for RM in their La Decima win imo, Ramos was. He didn't even play in Copa del Rey final, came 3rd in La Liga with Real, and had a really bad World Cup. You can play this game with any player, making him look good or bad, depending on what your intentions are. Goalscorers win the Ballon d'Or. When others win, it's mostly because the guys that are supposed to score goals did a lousy job that year.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ronaldo wasn't that influential for RM in their La Decima win imo, Ramos was. He didn't even play in Copa del Rey final, came 3rd in La Liga with Real, and had a really bad World Cup. You can play this game with any player, making him look good or bad, depending on what your intentions are. Goalscorers win the Ballon d'Or. When others win, it's mostly because the guys that are supposed to score goals did a lousy job that year.

Ronaldo scored a huge amount of goals and helped Real win the CL.

It is not all about goalscorers or the top ten would be full of them and it is not.

You are taking the fact that Messi and Ronaldo score such huge amount of goals and saying it means 'everyone votes for goalscorers'. When in fact it is the goals that make them unique and why people are voting for them.

You act like all these players, coaches and journalists are dumb and dont realise who is really the best or most influential.

 

[serghei]

You are taking the fact that Messi and Ronaldo score such huge amount of goals and saying it means 'everyone votes for goalscorers'. When in fact it is the goals that make them unique and why people are voting for them.

Please, people usually vote for the offensive players. This phenomenon didn't start with Messi and Ronaldo. Offensive players win 90% of the time. Either that's because, almost year after year, the offensive players are the best, or because the way these trophies are awarded shows a predisposition towards this kind of player-profile (mostly dribblers, goal-scorers and combinations between the two, that's the pattern).

 

[silvia]

At some point, Messi does have to pass the want to some other player, be it Neymar or someone else. I suppose the manager should decide how that happens, and in what way. Messi leaving is not out of the question, and nor should it be. Some champions have, indeed, problems in accepting they are not like they used to be anymore. And Messi is a great champion. We'll see. I'm leaving every option on the table, and I think everyone should accept that Messi leaving could happen and it's not the end of the world if it does happen.

you wanted to sell messi and say this? what, manager will decide? such a hypocricy man.
Messi will leave someday in the future, just one year before his retirement and play for New well's old boys just like xavi.
and for Neymar, i think he will win balon dor because his only competitor is hazard, james etc. but maybe martial could.

 

[Blaugrana Bull]

Just scrolled through the last couple of pages: What is this?

Discussions about Neymar leaving, Messi leaving, one does not want to share spotlight with the other etc. They are happy that they are able to play together (with each other and Busi, Iniesta, Suarez etc.) because they know that they will not win shit without world class teammates. Neymar coming to Barca to play with Messi is a dream coming true and I think he has absolutely no problem that Messi is the main man.
Neymar will learn as much as possible to become the new star in a couple of years but I am pretty sure that everyone is very satisfied with the current situation.

 

[Flavia]

Its not just about goals. It is about important performances and all round general play.

By your reckoning the next time Neymar scores more than Messi at Barca he will get voted above him in Balondor?

Lets see. I dont think he will.

It is only about goals for quite a while. That's one of the reasons cr got his 2nd over ribery, robbery aside.

If Messi scored 10 and Neymar scored 50 then in all probability he would be the better player.

Flavia is saying as long as Neymar scores more he will win balon dor even if Messi is still the better overall player.

I dont see it that way.

Sadly it is how this plays these days. Whoever scores more, gets it. Messi could have 40 assists, but if he scores only 20, while Neymar scores 40, Neymar will finish ahead.

 

[silvia]

Just scrolled through the last couple of pages: What is this?

Discussions about Neymar leaving, Messi leaving, one does not want to share spotlight with the other etc. They are happy that they are able to play together (with each other and Busi, Iniesta, Suarez etc.) because they know that they will not win shit without world class teammates. Neymar coming to Barca to play with Messi is a dream coming true and I think he has absolutely no problem that Messi is the main man.
Neymar will learn as much as possible to become the new star in a couple of years but I am pretty sure that everyone is very satisfied with the current situation.

*golden cucumber* a.k.a. pichichi. that is how this started.

 

[JamDav1982]

Please, people usually vote for the offensive players. This phenomenon didn't start with Messi and Ronaldo. Offensive players win 90% of the time. Either that's because, almost year after year, the offensive players are the best, or because the way these trophies are awarded shows a predisposition towards this kind of player-profile (mostly dribblers, goal-scorers and combinations between the two, that's the pattern).

I was at a talk by Alex Ferguson and he explained how it was his belief that attacking players were by far the most influential players in a team.

He actually pointed to Balon'dor and said he agreed with it and even when defensive players or went close they are very attacking.

People are voting attacking players as they see them as the most influential.

 

[JamDav1982]

It is only about goals for quite a while. That's one of the reasons cr got his 2nd over ribery, robbery aside.



Sadly it is how this plays these days. Whoever scores more, gets it. Messi could have 40 assists, but if he scores only 20, while Neymar scores 40, Neymar will finish ahead.

Apart from Messi and Ronaldo the vote has not been getting dominated by goal scorers. These two are the exception not the norm.

If Messi scored 40 and Neymar 45 do you think Neymar still gets voted as better?

The rules seem to be changing now that IF Neymar scores more than Messi he gets award to IF Neymar scores double he gets award.

If it is all about goals then Neymar scoring one more should get voted higher surely.

 

[Flavia]

Apart from Messi and Ronaldo the vote has not been getting dominated by goal scorers. These two are the exception not the norm.

If Messi scored 40 and Neymar 45 do you think Neymar still gets voted as better?

The rules seem to be changing now that IF Neymar scores more than Messi he gets award to IF Neymar scores double he gets award.

If it is all about goals then Neymar scoring one more should get voted higher surely.

I'm not talking about now, but in 4, 5 years. I don't think Neymar will get a bdor before that. Messi won't score less than Neymar in the next 3 seasons at least, imo.

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm not talking about now, but in 4, 5 years. I don't think Neymar will get a bdor before that. Messi won't score less than Neymar in the next 3 seasons at least, imo.

Its not all about goals though.

Take out Messi and Ronaldo as you cant use them as an example against themselves. They are unique.

Other teams that have been successful at top level in recent years -

2014 Germany won WC/Bayern dominate domestically - Neuer gets voted highest of their players not the likes of Muller who scored a lot more and played in both sides.

2013 - Bayern win CL - Muller and Mandzukic score more goals than Ribery who gets voted highest.

2010 - Inter win treble - Sneijder voted highest in balon dor from that team. More than Milito/Etoo who were nowhere near. Sneijder considered their most influential player by far.
2010 - Spain win WC - Xavi and Iniesta get backed on basis of this not Villa

 

[Flavia]

Its not all about goals though.

Take out Messi and Ronaldo as you cant use them as an example against themselves. They are unique.

Other teams that have been successful at top level in recent years -

2014 Germany won WC/Bayern dominate domestically - Neuer gets voted highest of their players not the likes of Muller who scored a lot more and played in both sides.

2013 - Bayern win CL - Muller and Mandzukic score more goals than Ribery who gets voted highest.

2010 - Inter win treble - Sneijder voted highest in balon dor from that team. More than Milito/Etoo who were nowhere near. Sneijder considered their most influential player by far.
2010 - Spain win WC - Xavi and Iniesta get backed on basis of this not Villa

None of those won the bdor. cr, more than Messi, won his bdors because of his goals. Not because he was actually the best player, which is debatable. So, if Neymar manages a season like cr, which I think he might one day, he'll get ahead of Messi. That's the only way I see it happening, as Messi is a much better player, and I think he still will be when he is 32 and Neymar 27.

 

[JamDav1982]

None of those won the bdor. cr, more than Messi, won his bdors because of his goals. Not because he was actually the best player, which is debatable. So, if Neymar manages a season like cr, which I think he might one day, he'll get ahead of Messi. That's the only way I see it happening, as Messi is a much better player, and I think he still will be when he is 32 and Neymar 27.

You are right none of them won the balon'dor but they were the players who received the most votes of their teams.

Ronaldo has been by far the best player in the world after Messi in the past 7/8 years. The people voting for these awards are not idiots blinded by goals and have voted him out of the top two or three at times as well.

I agree that Neymar will struggle to win one within the next 5 years and would not be convinced that will be a situation he will be happy with for that as long as that.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Why do you talk about the ballon, it's just a popularity contest.
If it was just, messi would have had 6 and cristiano 1 by now.