11 - Neymar Jr. - v4

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Trickykid

Active member
As I told to Instinct a few days ago, when you start to throw insults or unrelated topics (he mentioned how I changed my mind about Pogba in order to strengthen his argument), it usually means that you are losing this argument.

So, thanks Tricky for an insult, I will take this as if you are also realizing that stats are against you (and Ney) this time.
So, cheers

:lol:
Are you even serious now?
In case you still don't comprehend it, my original post focused on the fact that Neymar is (statswise) the best at creating chances in La Liga. How the fuck is this me realizing that stats are against me?
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Pointless speculation, really. RM will win the ChL again because their wingers will have better stats than Neymar.

Even them winning it BBZ spins as a slight on Neymar as Messi plays for Barca and it should be easier.

Where does Messi's or the other players reponsobility come for CL elimination?

Just shows biased the opinions are.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Yeah, it's neymar's fault rm got such easy draws in the cl, and then won on penalties. Sound logic, can't argue with that.

This is why I compared La liga stats, where both Barca and Real play with EXACTLY the same opponents over 38 rounds, and where you can't be lucky with draws.

So, please, let's flip stats again, and please offer me another explanation how did Ney manage to be the worst out of MSN/BBC in La liga, and yet he has Messi in his team, who is producing the best assists and the best key passes, and simple tap ins for his teammates.

So, Bale has CR/ to create chances for him, and CR7 can't do shit.
So, Bale has only Benz who can help him create something.

Benz has CR7 again, who can't create shit, and he has only Bale and himself who could create something (plus Cms, of course).

Then you have Ney, who has Messi in his team, the best creator in the history of all sports, plus a decent guy Suarez, plus Iniesta, who is again better than all Real midfielders, right?

So, when you sum everything:
1. Barca has a better team, right?
2. Neymar is surrounded by better creators (Messi, Iniesta) compared to RM's guys who have CR7 behind him

And yet, when you sum everything, Ney manages to be the weakest player on end product stats out of these 6 guys?

Please, I am eager to hear another insane alibi.

You see, I don't get this need to overrate and overhype our players and finding 1000 random alibis for everything.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
This is why I compared La liga stats, where both Barca and Real play with EXACTLY the same opponents over 38 rounds, and where you can't be lucky with draws.

So, please, let's flip stats again, and please offer me another explanation how did Ney manage to be the worst out of MSN/BBC in La liga, and yet he has Messi in his team, who is producing the best assists and the best key passes, and simple tap ins for his teammates.

So, Bale has CR/ to create chances for him, and CR7 can't do shit.
So, Bale has only Benz who can help him create something.

Benz has CR7 again, who can't create shit, and he has only Bale and himself who could create something (plus Cms, of course).

Then you have Ney, who has Messi in his team, the best creator in the history of all sports, plus a decent guy Suarez, plus Iniesta, who is again better than all Real midfielders, right?

So, when you sum everything:
1. Barca has a better team, right?
2. Neymar is surrounded by better creators (Messi, Iniesta) compared to RM's guys who have CR7 behind him

And yet, when you sum everything, Ney manages to be the weakest player on end product stats out of these 6 guys?

Please, I am eager to hear another insane alibi.

You see, I don't get this need to overrate and overhype our players and finding 1000 random alibis for everything.

Yes Ney comes out bottom of those stats.

Ronaldo and Suarez are ahead of Messi.

Bale banged in goals against poorer teams and Ronaldo has the whole Real team set up to play to his multiple chances a game. Neymar is the player with least chances to score in Barca front three and does the most work defensively.

Stats dont tell the whole story.
 
F

Flavia

Guest
This is why I compared La liga stats, where both Barca and Real play with EXACTLY the same opponents over 38 rounds, and where you can't be lucky with draws.

So, please, let's flip stats again, and please offer me another explanation how did Ney manage to be the worst out of MSN/BBC in La liga, and yet he has Messi in his team, who is producing the best assists and the best key passes, and simple tap ins for his teammates.

So, Bale has CR/ to create chances for him, and CR7 can't do shit.
So, Bale has only Benz who can help him create something.

Benz has CR7 again, who can't create shit, and he has only Bale and himself who could create something (plus Cms, of course).

Then you have Ney, who has Messi in his team, the best creator in the history of all sports, plus a decent guy Suarez, plus Iniesta, who is again better than all Real midfielders, right?

So, when you sum everything:
1. Barca has a better team, right?
2. Neymar is surrounded by better creators (Messi, Iniesta) compared to RM's guys who have CR7 behind him

And yet, when you sum everything, Ney manages to be the weakest player on end product stats out of these 6 guys?

Please, I am eager to hear another insane alibi.

You see, I don't get this need to overrate and overhype our players and finding 1000 random alibis for everything.

"Insane alibi"? I think it's more of a case of your insane arguments to belittle a player you highly dislike. Nothing more than that. I see no objectivity from you, about Neymar. Just endless, pointless rants.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
:lol:
Are you even serious now?
In case you still don't comprehend it, my original post focused on the fact that Neymar is (statswise) the best at creating chances in La Liga. How the fuck is this me realizing that stats are against me?

Stats from my post.
When you used a slight insult.

So Bale and Ronaldo have better stats mean they are better wingers than Neymar?

By that standards Ronaldo is just ahead of Messi?

BBZ you change the criteria to fit when you wont apply it to other players.

Can just as easy throw it back at you that last season it was not all about goals and assists when it came to Neymar now you are claiming it is.

Oh no, mate
I am doing this because I am trying to show to some of our fans how absurd their claims are.

So, just to remind people:
1. I DO actually think that Ney is in top 5-10 players in the world
2. I DO think that he is in top 1-2-3 LWs in the world
3. I DO think that he is a world class talent
4. I DON'T think that CR7 is actually a better winger. About Bale, well that guy is impressive lately and has good stats, 2 CLs and a good motivation on a field. So, Bale is slightly better than Ney in my eyes in this moment. CR7 is not, because he is a scorer, not a creator

I just wanted to show an absurd of posting some stats which should imply that 1 player is better, when you can easily pick another stat which will imply that other players are better.
And in 10 minutes, as you can see, you can get a fight among our fans whether XX or YY stats are more important, lol.

Of course, we could have avoided this fight if we all remained quiet, and if I posted for example: yes, tricky, awesome stats. They really prove that Ney is the best key passer in la liga or whatever.

I mean, he is a bets key passer.
But he is also 6th best player in the end product.

My personal "problem" is why do people need to pick only stats which fit them (ok, I do the same, but only because ney-hypers are insane, lol).
And why do we have so much fuss when someone posts stats which are implying that some other (opponent's) players are better than our guy?

Again, what? The world or someone's head will explode if some stat says that Bale is better in some statistical area than Ney?
Sorry, I just don't get it. People are so pissed if you burst their (slightly delusional and too biased) bubble :shakeshead:
 
I

instinct

Guest
BBZ back at it again :lol:

The Pogba topic is not unrelated at all. In fact, you criticized him because of the exact same reasons you're now criticizing Neymar for. If you don't feel like justifying your double standards, at least allow me to question your attitude towards Neymar. I could understand your point if both cases weren't so similar.
I just don't understand your logic. You'd be willing to sell the best LW in the world and sign Pogba who's equally as inconsistent, whose lifestyle is equally as extravagant and whose agent is equally as bad as Neymar's. What exactly is the difference?

Also, I appreciate you taking the time to research articles on peak performances and physical decline (albeit the articles mostly focus on swimmers and chess players). Unfortunately, none of those articles talk about the common problems the general Barcelona fanbase (that you like to refer to) had with Neymar's performances. If I remember correctly, the only two reasons he was (rightfully) criticized was his decision making and attitude on the pitch. The articles you posted are completely unrelated to both and one could argue that an athlete can improve on both traits regardless of age and physical condition.

Unless you were talking about physical decline, I don't see how your post answers my question, and if you were talking about his physical decline as a potential threat for Barcelona, then I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to tell us since the club would have the same problem with every athlete.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
And why do we have so much fuss when someone posts stats which are implying that some other (opponent's) players are better than our guy?

Those same stats are used by people to argue Ronaldo is on par or better than Messi but I bet you reject them then as they dont suit you.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
BBZ back at it again :lol:

The Pogba topic is not unrelated at all. In fact, you criticized him because of the exact same reasons you're now criticizing Neymar for. If you don't feel like justifying your double standards, at least allow me to question your attitude towards Neymar. I could understand your point if both cases weren't so similar.
I just don't understand your logic. You'd be willing to sell the best LW in the world and sign Pogba who's equally as inconsistent, whose lifestyle is equally as extravagant and whose agent is equally as bad as Neymar's. What exactly is the difference?

Also, I appreciate you taking the time to research articles on peak performances and physical decline (albeit the articles mostly focus on swimmers and chess players). Unfortunately, none of those articles talk about the common problems the general Barcelona fanbase (that you like to refer to) had with Neymar's performances. If I remember correctly, the only two reasons he was (rightfully) criticized was his decision making and attitude on the pitch. The articles you posted are completely unrelated to both and one could argue that an athlete can improve on both traits regardless of age and physical condition.

Unless you were talking about physical decline, I don't see how your post answers my question, and if you were talking about his physical decline as a potential threat for Barcelona, then I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to tell us since the club would have the same problem with every athlete.


Ok, finally a different kind of a post.
In short, these are my current problems with Ney:
1. he is the most expensive transfer ever. Yet, his plays aren't as good as his transfer was (he is the most expensive signing, yet his plays are far from the 1st place)
So, this is one of my problems with him in terms of invested money and return of investment
About when people say: but we won a treble with him.
This is how I see it:
Since Messi emerged in 2006:
-- we won 3 Cls in 8 years without Ney (2006-2014)
-- and 5 La ligas in 8 years before Ney

With Ney:
-- 1 CL in 3 years
-- 2 La ligas in 3 years

So, some people are acting as if Ney brought our team to a level never seen before, if you get me.
While, we were as equally as dominant WITH or WITHOUT Ney both in La liga and in a CL since 2006 when GOAT emerged.

So, we were winning the same ratio of La ligas and CLs even with Pedro as our starting LW, if you get me.
So, when someone says that Ney brought us a CL in 2015 and 2 La ligas in 2015 and 2016, that would probably happen with any random (good) winger in our team.

So, my problem is that we paid 100+ Millions for his transfer and god knows how many millions for wages, and our team is more or less the same as before him.
So, my argument is that our team would probably win the same amount of trophies with some less expensive guy like Reus, Griez etc.
Plus, we would have money for players on other positions.
This is a Pogba (or other Cms) argument.

2. about Pogba, he is not the same as Ney
Ney is the biggest celebrity and a guy with too many off field interests since Beckham and CR7.
Pogba is a little kid for him in celebrity area.

3. Ney is the most hot and cold leader or a key player of Barca in the last 10-15 years, in my opinion.

4. and a problem with wages where he will now ruin our wage structure

Plus, for the end, I have a problem with people who have posts that he is the 2nd best player in the world and who totally lose nerves if you reply something differently (like my stats with goals+assists)

My further problem with Ney is that in my opinion, I don't think that he will improve his play.
And since I am not convinced by his impact (especially in: invested money plus a return in trophies from Ney), then since I am not happy with how much he is "improving" our team, I am scared that it will be way worse very soon since he may start to decline physically (those scientific facts), plus if his celebrity persona will grow, his motivation will be even weaker, which means that he will be hot and cold even more.

So, in short, my key problems:
1. I don't think that he returned as much as we invested in him (100m transfer plus new insane wages which will ruin our team)
2. plus, my prediction, he will be even weaker player very soon, because of a physical decline and his declining motivation

So, it is not the same as with Pogba.
Even though, I could survive without Pogba, if we buy 2 Cms like Gomez for that money, for example.
 
Last edited:

Interlop

Member
So, BBZ can I ask you a question? Who do you think was the best player between Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Bale, Benzema? And what criteria did you use to come to this conclusion?
 
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