2021 Ballon d'Or

[OGbarca]

This has been discussed many times in this forum. Not interested in discussing again with you and do look back for those posts during this time period in this forum.

right, because R16 CL elimination, 4th or 5th straight CL humiliation, 3rd place to Atleti and Real and 0 goals against these teams is messi having a good january-april--because he won the copa del rey

that is LITERALLY like saying that CR has a phenomenal, world class, 3-5 top player in the world january to april because he scored a lot of goals in Serie A and won the Italian cup, while being eliminated in the CL and losing the league EXACTLY LIKE MESSI.

so either you admit also that CR had a world calss, 3-5 top player in the world january to april (which he did NOT) or it is clear that...you have no argument

 

[Raketa10]

EduAguirre7:

"Tell me a single player in history who has been given a Ballon d'Or for winning the Copa America."

"If Messi wins the Ballon d'Or it will be a real shame".

Cope or tru?

So he should be punished for being a South American. Makes sense. If he choose Spain he would probably have won 2 WC's and 2 EURO's until now.

 

[OGbarca]

my point being: other than copa america, in which Messi did indeed play brilliantly (final excepted), it is absurd to claim he had a bdor-worthy january-april, even less september-december.

 

[Raketa10]

right, because R16 CL elimination, 4th or 5th straight CL humiliation, 3rd place to Atleti and Real and 0 goals against these teams is messi having a good january-april--because he won the copa del rey

that is LITERALLY like saying that LEWA has a phenomenal, world class, 3-5 top player in the world january to april because he scored a lot of goals in Bundesliga and won the league, while being eliminated in the CL and losing the cup EXACTLY LIKE MESSI.

so either you admit also that CR had a world calss, 3-5 top player in the world january to april (which he did NOT) or it is clear that...you have no argument

Fixed that for you.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Forget about Messi. 5 of our ladies (Alexia Putellas, Lieke Martens, Jennifer Hermoso, Sandra Panos and Irene Paredes) are in for the B'd and one of them should take it home.

 

[KingLeo10]

If you can't see the difference in how CR7 was eliminated against Porto while Messi was eliminated v PSG with 2 goals in 2 games...then that is the definition of hating for the sake of hating.

Can't always be quick to point to CL KO goals and then magically reduce it to the result of the team (which of course was the same) when that's not in your favor.

Messi's never been eliminated in the CL by lowly teams such as Porto or Lyon. That's for sure. Even declining he usually takes care of the likes of Napoli or Lyon. And before you point to Roma, Messi failed there and I blame him for it. But Roma scored 6 goals v Liverpool in the semis so they were not elite but not middle tier either.

 

[OGbarca]

messi: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: WORLD CLASS, BDOR-level january to april 2021

CR: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: crickets, crickets, CR is done

0% logical consistency
0% integrity
0% honesty

 

[Raketa10]

messi: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: WORLD CLASS, BDOR-level january to april 2021

CR: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: crickets, crickets, CR is done

0% logical consistency
0% integrity
0% honesty

Lewa: loses the cup, wins the League, not played against PSG in CL - Bayern eliminated, scored only against Lazio and Salzburg in CL, did nothing at EURO - WORLD CLASS, BDOR-level

0% logical consistency
0% integrity
0% honesty

 

[KingLeo10]

messi: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: WORLD CLASS, BDOR-level january to april 2021

CR: loses the league, wins the cup, humiliated in CL r16 -- barca forum: crickets, crickets, CR is done

0% logical consistency
0% integrity
0% honesty

The Ballon D'Or was "won" (if he does) by Messi due to Copa, where he led in all attacking categories (goals, assists, through balls, whatever) His mostly good performances from Jan - April are like maybe 30% of his overall case.

It's similar to how strong performances in CL or Euro or WC land a Ballon D'Or.

 

[OGbarca]

If you can't see the difference in how CR7 was eliminated against Porto while Messi was eliminated v PSG with 2 goals in 2 games...then that is the definition of hating for the sake of hating.

Can't always be quick to point to CL KO goals and then magically reduce it to the result of the team (which of course was the same) when that's not in your favor

1-4 in the camp nou is a humiliation by any standard and indefensible.
5-2 in R16 is a humiliation

CR's elimination to porto was also a humiliation. trying to determine which was 'lesser' is like choosing the best way to die between drowning and burning: you are missing the point

 

[KingLeo10]

1-4 in the camp nou is a humiliation by any standard and indefensible.
5-2 in R16 is a humiliation

CR's elimination to porto was also a humiliation. trying to determine which was 'lesser' is like choosing the best way to die between drowning and burning: you are missing the point

As usual, you're not considering the quality of the opposition when it suits your narrative. I have no interest in going back and forth with you on this.

 

[OGbarca]

The Ballon D'Or was "won" (if he does) by Messi due to Copa, where he led in all attacking categories (goals, assists, through balls, whatever) His mostly good performances from Jan - April are like maybe 30% of his overall case.

It's similar to how strong performances in CL or Euro or WC land a Ballon D'Or.

well yes, i agree: if messi stands a chance to win the bdor, it is due to his copa america, and only to that.

the discussion here is that some posters are trying to make the case that messi had a world class, bdor-worthy january-april 2021, which he did not, by any objective standard.

 

[OGbarca]

As usual, you're not considering the quality of the opposition when it suits your narrative. I have no interest in going back and forth with you on this.

that's like saying its fine to lose 8-2 to bayern because they were a machine that year.

it is not. its not like we lost 1-0 to psg on aggregate, or 1-1 and lost on away goals. that would be a dignified way to be eliminated by a better team.

there is no dignity whatsoever in getting hammered 5-2.

 

[bismp]

its also hilarious how messis copa america victory is played up as some tremendous achievement--after failing to win it in like 5 finals, and after failing to win an international title after like 6 finals. and this too with Argentina as his team, a team that always has star, world-class players. its not like he won the copa america with ecuador or peru. on the other hand, CR winning the euro with portugal is much more impressive than if he had won it with idk France or Germany. CR has three intl finals, 2 wins). just to put some perspective on this achievement, which, from the way it is discussed here, is made to sound like Maradona's 86 WC, which it emphatically was not

I haven't seen a biggest Messi hater in BARCAforum.

If Copa was so easy to win, why did Argentina win no Copas for 15 years before Messi became a starter and like 20 years before Messi became the leader of the team?

I agree that it is not a huge achievement because obviously Copa America is not the WC and because Leo had already lost 3 finals in the past, but come on.

You are bringing CR's achievements in the discussion...You are trolling dude

Nation's League is a glorified friendly and everybody knows it,yet you are saying that CR is 2/3 in intl. finals. Loooool. Ok,then let's also count Confederations Cup as a major achievement.

Also, Euros is a relatively big achievement, but the tournament is definitely not dominated by big nations. Greece and Denmark had won in the past, both of which are vastly inferior nations than Portugal in the football world.

Besides, Portugal won because of their defense and luck. CR legit scored only 3 goals and did not even play in the final. Fucking Griezmann scored 6 and was the player of the tournament.

 

[OGbarca]

I haven't seen a biggest Messi hater in BARCAforum.

If Copa was so easy to win, why did Argentina win no Copas for 15 years before Messi became a starter and like 20 years before Messi became the leader of the team?

I agree that it is not a huge achievement because obviously Copa America is not the WC and because Leo had already lost 3 finals in the past, but come on.

You are bringing CR's achievements in the discussion...You are trolling dude

Nation's League is a glorified friendly and everybody knows it,yet you are saying that CR is 2/3 in intl. finals. Loooool. Ok,then let's also count Confederations Cup as a major achievement.

Also, Euros is a relatively big achievement, but the tournament is definitely not dominated by big nations. Greece and Denmark had won in the past, both of which are vastly inferior nations than Portugal in the football world.

Besides, Portugal won because of their defense and luck. CR legit scored only 3 goals and did not even play in the final. Fucking Griezmann scored 6 and was the player of the tournament.

cope bro: messi, the supposed greatest of all time, needed what, 6 tries to finally win a final with argentina? yeah: the best of allllllll time for sure